Author Topic: Incidental Fees  (Read 5774 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Incidental Fees
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2003, 11:18:00 AM »
Anon,  FYI

Incidenatl fees are mandatory charges. It is on the monthly bill. Another part of the fraud.

All of my incidental fees went to "staff watch."

When my son needed to blow his nose in SCl the staff in work sheets would not give him a kleenex.
My child sneezed all over ,hence he was beat up for making a mess. I heard this story recently.

Tell me what is the purpose in not giving a kid with green snot in his face a kleenex. Where is the emotional growth, behavior modifying in that .
Power control freaks are staffing this program.

The Anon who is explaining the consequences,is pointing out why it takes sooooo very long for a kid to achieve level success,to graduate the program. Another Fraud.

It is all about keeping the momey coming in,under the desguise of consequences. Its Fraud.

Needless to say I find this out after the fact.

Who would of thought basic toiltries are not being given to the kids.  Not me.

Call me dumb,it was beyond my comprhenshion someone(s) could behave so viciously.

Degrading,deprivation,humiliation, those are the tactics used against these kids in this program.

SICK VERY SICK.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MelissaR

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« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2003, 03:28:00 PM »
No, that is correct, you will be billed for looking in the mirror, just as you would for any other consequence. There are fines for each consequence, Cat. 1's, Cat. 2's, etc.

As far is the dirty water goes, I never said anything about bathtubs. The water shooting out of the shower head is filthy. See, the facility houses so many kids that they "purify" their own water from the nearby Clark Fork River, as well as generate their own electricity, etc. The water is not purified enough, obviously, causing skin, hair and teeth problems.
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Offline anon

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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2003, 04:21:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 17:36 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2003, 07:22:00 PM »
OMG!  This is really grasping at straws!  In the time my son was at both SCL and another wwasps program, NEVER ONCE did I get charged for CAT's!  I didnt even get charged when he punched a hole in the wall, which I would have paid!  

ACNE, get real!  My son got acne IN the program, he was 15 for godsakes!  My daughter is 15 and not in a program and has acne, no worse than his.  I'd rather he be alive with acne than dead with clear skin!  Do kids get acne in juvenile detention?  Do they get acne living on the streets and prostituting? Do they get acne living at home?  

It's like a husband blaming his wife for losing his hair!   :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2003, 07:45:00 PM »
:oops:  :oops:  :oops:

Good Follower.  keep reminding us why we woke up.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2003, 08:14:00 PM »
Typical.

Sence its normal for teens to have acne, they turn a blind eye to the fact that new and worsening acne indicates a lack of appropriate hygiene and nutrition, and the presence of stress.

Its the same way they hide behind how commonly teens lie to and manipulate their parents. All parents experience this with their kids to some degree; and the parents of a troubled kid especially so - and they use this to excuse away the many upsetting things the kids write home about. Its easy for the parents to believe this, b/c they have had so much experience with the kid lying. The Program takes advantage of this weakness in the average teen's character and turns them all into the boy crying wolf.

Keep in mind program parents - there was a wolf.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2003, 08:40:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-08 16:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OMG!  This is really grasping at straws!  In the time my son was at both SCL and another wwasps program, NEVER ONCE did I get charged for CAT's!  I didnt even get charged when he punched a hole in the wall, which I would have paid!  



ACNE, get real!  My son got acne IN the program, he was 15 for godsakes!  My daughter is 15 and not in a program and has acne, no worse than his.  I'd rather he be alive with acne than dead with clear skin!  Do kids get acne in juvenile detention?  Do they get acne living on the streets and prostituting? Do they get acne living at home?  



It's like a husband blaming his wife for losing his hair!   :rofl:   "


Better than being "dead with clear skin."

This is what cult specialists call an "induced exit phobia."

The odds of a kid getting sent into a program dying if he had NOT been sent into the program are vanishingly low.

The fact that you are supportive of some "program" and you really do think a program kid "would be dead" if he wasn't in the program goes farther to substantiate, for me, the bad things I've heard about the programs than ANYTHING I've heard from the survivors or survivor organizations.

I would suggest that you talk to a good exit counselor and give them the things that you think are risk factors for your kid "being dead" if he hadn't been in the "program" and ask him to do a literature search (or send you to a legitimate research service that will) and calculate the actual odds of such a kid "being dead" by a certain age.

Then compare the *real* odds to what you have come to believe the probabilities are.

A good check would be to write a ballpark guesstimate of how likely you think death would be for a kid with those risk factors by a particular age.  Just ballpark.

Then when the real odds come back, compare them.

You're paying thousands a month in program costs.  You can *certainly* come up with a bit to double check whether what you've been led to believe is true or not.

If you don't trust an exit counselor, then go to the university in your state that has a research psychology program and hire a psychology grad student (the department head or one of the professors can recommend someone) to do the literature search for you.  Grad students are poor, need money, and work relatively cheap.  Particularly grad students in research psychology.

Get a totally disinterested second opinion.

And if it turns out that your estimate was *way* inflated over the real odds, then please go talk to a reputable exit counselor and at least consider whether you want to rethink some of your choices.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2003, 08:54:00 PM »
I didn't say my son would be dead if he hadn't gone.  You highlighted with I wrote.  I don't know if he would be dead.  His choices were headed that way and I won't go into all the ugliness of it, but WHAT IF I hadn't intervened and he had died?  I wasn't willing to take that chance.  What I said was a figure of speech, an example, not a psychic prediction.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2003, 09:01:00 PM »
does anyone realize that every programmed parent or "graduate" says they would be dead if they didnt go?. Hmm could this be why the facilitaros in the seminars make them stand up and say that. SOMEONES GONNA TELL ME THATS NOT BRAINWASH.

EVERY BRAINWASHED SUCCESS STORY SAYS THEY WOULD BE DEAD IF THEY DIDNT GO TO THE PRISON "PROGRAM"
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2003, 09:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-08 17:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I didn't say my son would be dead if he hadn't gone.  You highlighted with I wrote.  I don't know if he would be dead.  His choices were headed that way and I won't go into all the ugliness of it, but WHAT IF I hadn't intervened and he had died?  I wasn't willing to take that chance.  What I said was a figure of speech, an example, not a psychic prediction.  "


But your saying it like that reveals that on some level you believe it.  And you just reiterated it with, "His choices were headed that way..."

Were they?  Really?  How many kids who were making the same choices as your kid DIDN'T go into a "program" and DIDN'T die?

I believe you have a very inflated idea of the probability of actual death for a teen from various behaviors.

Every time my kid goes outside on a cloudy day, there COULD be a lightning strike and she could die.  She could be sitting on the couch watching TV and have a brain embolism and die.  Every time I drive with her in the car, we could get in a wreck and die.  But the odds are REALLY, REALLY low.

I'm not worried about it because I have a realistic idea of relative risk.

That you are worried about it, and that that worry is really common in program parents, and that the real risks are pretty darned low, suggests to me that you (like other program parents) have a very inflated idea of what the risk of death to your kid really is/was.

What do you have to lose from finding out what the  REAL risk is or was?  What you have to risk is you may find out you were wrong, and that would be embarrassing.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2003, 11:15:00 PM »
Yep. Fear sells... whatever it is you want to sell. Remember Y2K and the Anthrax/biological weapons scare? You couldn't buy a roll of duct tape or bottled water anywhere.
I don't believe for a minute it's a "figure of speech". It's an expression of grossly exaggerated fear- which programs capitalize on- putting out studies that wilderness is safer than driving or playing football; suggesting that parents can't protect their child 24/7, but they can.... for a price of course.

***WHAT IF I hadn't intervened and he had died?

What if he gets run over by a truck the day after he gets home or contracts a fatal disease? There are no certainties in life. We begin the dying process with the first breath we take. Some have a longer journey than others. One might as well be dead if they live their life in fear of death (or someone elses). Is that "being at cause in your life"? Are you really at cause when you abdicate responsibility, turning your child over to strangers who are profiting off your fear?  

How is your child "being at cause in their life" in that situation? They aren't. They obviously don't choose it (the majority anyway) and are being controlled by your fears and the hired dictators at the program, "You will participate and experience personal growth, or I'll twist your arm out of the socket." It just doesn't work that way.

And, worse case scenerio, what if your son HAD died? Would the guilt be unbearable? Would you feel responsible? Is that what makes the end justify the means- no matter how abusive or austere or disrepectful?

I would suggest that what is more important is  quality of life while you're here for your blip in history of humankind. And that is what so many teens are needing, imho. Families, communities, schools, social policies that recognize their needs and demonstrate genuine respect.  

Instead of letting fear run your life why not look at your child's reaction to their life situation as a challenge. Be their ally. Help them figure out what it is they need to feel worthy, loved, appreciated, productive, constructive. What is it they need in order to master their environment, in Montessori terms. Make that the challenge. Living with a teen does not have to be a battle zone, unless you choose to sit on the sidelines and call the plays without being intimately involved, or sit on the sidelines and whimper because your son has lied to you AGAIN and you just don't understand.

If the thousands of parents who defer to programs; and/or who spend every spare moment selling programs; would put that money and energy into taking an active role as allies to teens- demanding better schools that meet the REAL needs of kids, demanding better social policies, etc, etc, etc- we would see happier, content teens. Yeh...I know it's a pipe dream, but I won't give it up.

To punish them because their family, society has short changed them is not the solution. Good god, that's equivalent to spanking a child and then punishing them further for crying about the spanking. To incarcerate them, isolated from the world, and subject them to mind twisting and numbing psycobabble (that few ADULTS can comprehend and implement)and abuse, is not by any stretch of the imagination, a compassionate solution. At the rate this country is going, the teen years will be labeled a period of mental disorder and all teens will be mandatorially incarcerated between the ages of 10-18...20 if they can stretch it that long. Because the adults are trying to alleviate their fears.

I'll tell you how one program(ed) parent reacted to her son being killed at a wilderness program- a death due to medical neglect that could have been prevented with simple common sense.
She chose to excuse it as his "karma". She did not want to feel like a "VICTIM" in the situation.   ::puke::

Why would it be so easy for her to forgive them, yet difficult to forgive her son for acting out the pain he carried inside. His "troublesome" behavior- which was a direct reaction to his life situation- was much more forgiveable in my mind than the behavior of the program/staff. She felt sorry for the trouble (investigation/revoked license) the program was experiencing- they were so good to her. Why no empathy for the fear, confusion, and anger her son lived with? Why did she "choose" to interpret his behavior as defiant and not for what it really was- a manifestation of the hopelessness, grief, fear, confusion? Why did she feel that strangers could give him the love, respect, appreciation, and direction that she herself couldn't?

If that is being "at cause" in your life, I want no part of it. I interpret it as a woo-woo, lame-ass excuse. The least a program parent could do is be honest- "I'm clueless, hopeless...I figure these strangers can do a better job than I can...guess I'll roll the dice, how bad could it really be"... and say that, to the public and especially to your kid. Like the child who is shriveled and crying in humiliation after a good ass whoopin', the last thing they want to hear is, "you've done this for their own good."
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Offline anon

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« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2003, 11:59:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 17:37 ]
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