Many Many Programs Abuse Kids

[Shadyacres]

To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are.  'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong.  They are words for different, far less damaging institutions.  The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying.  We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.

I agree that it works well within your group of friends and fellow survivors.  But when the rest of the world is using School or program and student/Resident and you exaggerate/redefine it to a level of Gulag and inmate then the readers can expect that when you also use the word "abuse" this would also be an exaggeration or redefined.
How is the reader to know which wards are redefined and embellished and which are not?

IF I stated:

My teacher is a mass murderer and kills me with her homework and treats me like a common slave when she makes me clean the board.  I am abused everyday.

Should we dial 911?  or by reading that sentence we interpret that the words Murder, slave and abuse are all embellished to get attention and create drama?

Do you see the difference?

I am not saying you have to stop using the kidnapping, Gulag, inmate, abuse etc. words.  But just dont expect the average person to take you seriously that is my main point.  If someone has truly been abused then they need to drop the drama and take the situation seriously if you expect others to.



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Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously.  It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.

[Dysfunction Junction]

Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!

The pope was born in like 1920.  If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.

More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult  bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP

I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society.  I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted.  Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur.  They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a  birth defect of some type.  They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days.  They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.

People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick.  But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general.  Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate.  Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently.  If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.

I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits.  People are treated badly here in general.  I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.



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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits.  You people should learn from this man.

Oy.  Here's Whooter in full homophobic, bigoted ignorance.  Parents, these are the people running te "programs" you're considering.  "Gays in San Francisco having sex caused the AIDS virus and made homosexuality unnatural and a disease."  You can't make up ignorance of this magnitude.  That guy is one sick puppy.  This explains all of his past anti-gay rants and slurs.

[Whooter]

Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously.  It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.

What do you base that on?  What does the state, parents, neighbors, professionals etc. call the kids who are in these boarding schools? inmates?

What does the state, parents professionals, neighbors, townspeople call these programs?  Gulags?

If you look at the state reports on these places they dont use the words inmates or gulags.

These are not just my point of view, Shadyacres.  Look around on line and see what people call these places outside of the survivor group.  I think you have been so involved with fornits and other survivors that you think these programs call each other Gulags.  They really dont.

If you walked into a police station and said that you were kidnapped and held prisoner inside a local Gulag what type of reaction to you think you would get?  Who else talks like this beside fornits regulars?

All I am saying is that the words are used to create drama but are not intended to be factual.  When you also use the word abuse you will  be take as seriously as the words you use with it like kidnapping, Gulag and inmate.  They are all used to get attention.

The question is when do we know when a child is actually abused?  I am sure there have been posters who have been abused for real but how can we tell if they use the other drama words along with it?  Do you see what I mean?



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[Whooter]

Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!

The pope was born in like 1920.  If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.

More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult  bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP

I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society.  I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted.  Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur.  They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a  birth defect of some type.  They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days.  They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.

People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick.  But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general.  Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate.  Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently.  If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.

I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits.  People are treated badly here in general.  I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.



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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits.  You people should learn from this man.

Oy.  Here's Whooter in full homophobic, bigoted ignorance.  Parents, these are the people running te "programs" you're considering.  "Gays in San Francisco having sex caused the AIDS virus and made homosexuality unnatural and a disease."  You can't make up ignorance of this magnitude.  That guy is one sick puppy.  This explains all of his past anti-gay rants and slurs.

Oh No another DJ who cannot read!  This was the perception in 1960.  It is probably before your time but many people thought that the gays were responsible for the aids virus and blamed them.  Homosexuality was viewed as unnatural at that time......  Today gays are more readily accepted in out society.



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[DannyB II]

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[shaggys]

One of the ways they kept us from reporting the abuse or even recognizing what was being done to us as abuse, was by leading us to believe that the program had the full power of the law on its side. We were constantly reminded of this by staff. The program owned us. "You're here for the duration" was heard constantly.
Sometimes the police would be brought in by exec-staff to arrest someone in group for a "crime" (usually hurting someone while trying to escape) they had committed while at Straight. These displays always served to strongly reinforce the idea that the program had the local police in their pocket. After all, they come in a room full of abused brainwashed zombie kids and instead of rescuing us, they locked the cuffs on some kid while the staff lectured us on the consequences of resistance. Unbelievable maybe, but all too true.

[Shadyacres]

Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously.  It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.

What do you base that on?  What does the state, parents, neighbors, professionals etc. call the kids who are in these boarding schools? inmates?

What does the state, parents professionals, neighbors, townspeople call these programs?  Gulags?

If you look at the state reports on these places they dont use the words inmates or gulags.

These are not just my point of view, Shadyacres.  Look around on line and see what people call these places outside of the survivor group.  I think you have been so involved with fornits and other survivors that you think these programs call each other Gulags.  They really dont.

If you walked into a police station and said that you were kidnapped and held prisoner inside a local Gulag what type of reaction to you think you would get?  Who else talks like this beside fornits regulars?

All I am saying is that the words are used to create drama but are not intended to be factual.  When you also use the word abuse you will  be take as seriously as the words you use with it like kidnapping, Gulag and inmate.  They are all used to get attention.

The question is when do we know when a child is actually abused?  I am sure there have been posters who have been abused for real but how can we tell if they use the other drama words along with it?  Do you see what I mean?



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Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you.  The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.

[DannyB II]

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[DannyB II]

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[Shadyacres]

DannyBII wrote"[/b]   How long ago did this happen, where did this happen and was this your experience?

My problem I have is posters here meld experiences from all over the place, some individuals have even forgotten there own experiences because there was not enough "umph" in there story, so they drop theirs and started reciting others. (Jeesh, how sick is that).
I wish there was a rule here, where everyone had to talk in the "I", only about themselves. Max's does it, with much effort either, I do it most of the time and Whooter does it most of the time.


 


Yes, that position works well for your side of the argument;" If I didn't see it, it must not have happened. "  But the root philosophy of these places is so similar throughout this industry that I tend to believe the countless reports of abuse that come out of these places on a regular basis. No, I never had to lie on the floor for three days, but I believe the accounts of those who said they did.  And my program did not have minimum wage goons either, we had unpaid goons, other "residents".

[Whooter]

Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you.  The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.

So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say:  "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused".  If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you.  Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.

If you said:  "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment"  People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious.  Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.

You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously.  This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality.  Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits.  Outside of this forum people dont speak that way and you would not be taken seriously, believe me.

I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates......  Its all drama for attention reasons.



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[Shadyacres]

Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you.  The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.

So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say:  "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused".  If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you.  Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.

If you said:  "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment"  People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious.  Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.

You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously.  This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality.  Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits.  

I just discovered Fornits a few months ago.  You are the one who recently stated that you have been here for years, and your reputation on this forum will confirm that you have been making this specious argument for quite awhile now.  


I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates......  Its all drama for attention reasons.



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At least that is what you hope you can convince people of.

[Whooter]

Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you.  The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.

So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say:  "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused".  If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you.  Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.

If you said:  "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment"  People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious.  Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.

You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously.  This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality.  Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits.  

I just discovered Fornits a few months ago.  You are the one who recently stated that you have been here for years, and your reputation on this forum will confirm that you have been making this specious argument for quite awhile now.  


I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates......  Its all drama for attention reasons.



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At least that is what you hope you can convince people of.

I really dont care to convince anyone, Shadyacres.  If you listen to many survivors here on fornits you will hear that one of their beefs is that they are not taken seriously.  People view them as druggie liars.  All I am saying is one of the reasons people may not take you seriously is because your communication is off from the norm.  You have developed your own language and redefined some basic words which erodes the credibility of those that use them.

People on fornits have been describing these places as Gulags and kids as inmates and then intermix it with kidnapping and abuse for many years.  I just continue to point out that these words make many people seem foolish or immature thats all.

It amazes me that people here just dont see it that way and continue to be perplexed as to why they are not take seriously when they speak to others.



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[DannyB II]

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[DannyB II]

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