Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.

[DannyB II]

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs. It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.

Well, you'd be wrong on that assumption.

Whooter is referencing parents talking with parents while their kids are in these programs, not years after they got out. In most cases such as Straight and Elan, parents were talking with one another after the fact not during.
just my 2 cents.

[Anne Bonney]

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs. It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.

Well, you'd be wrong on that assumption.

Whooter is referencing parents talking with parents while their kids are in these programs,

Well, thanks for speaking for Whooter, but that's what I was referring to as well, hence Whooter's term are, not were.  Quit assuming.

[Whooter]

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Thanks Danny/Anne for helping to clear it up.  The original question was, if I wasnt an edcon and just a parent how do I know why other kids are placed into programs.  I answered that I spoke with many parents at ASR and others outside ASR as well.

You indicated, above, that this was different than your experience with parents.

I hope this clears up hat question.



...

[Anne Bonney]

Thanks Danny/Anne for helping to clear it up.  The original question was, if I wasnt an edcon and just a parent how do I know why other kids are placed into programs.  I answered that I spoke with many parents at ASR and others outside ASR as well.

You indicated, above, that this was different than your experience with parents.

I hope this clears up hat question.

No, it really doesn't.

[Whooter]

I think this post was where the confusion started.  You asked how I knew about other kids.

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs.  It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.



...

[Whooter]

What I would like to discuss is the parents exclusively, there involvement leading up to the placement day. The relationship between the parents and the child, what went on, what is going on and overall how did the decision come about.
So there are probably several topics to choose from, I did this on purpose so hopefully this thread will not be easily de-railed. Especially when posting becomes contentious.
Examples of topics;
1. Parents being neglectful- abandoning their child
2. Parents being overwhelmed- feeling of hopeless, scared, not knowing what to do
3. Parents being tired of being parents- drug addictions/alcohol, divorce, boyfriends and girlfriends
4. Parents being manipulated by programs- gullible or tricked
5. Parents being incapable of being parents- emotional/mental issues, physical issues, financial issues
6. Parents not being able to control child-  Child with severe emotional/ mental handi-caps, ei; severe bi-polar, ADHD, autism, violent personality disorder, rebellion issues, severe drug and alcohol use, truancy....ect.

Why are so many parents placing there kids in various programs. I believe some of the reasons are above, if not what say you.

My daughter was struggling on many fronts.  I think the last straw was when our communication broke down and she refused to go to school.  We tried different counseling and worked with friends.  So our choice was to just let her stay in her room the rest of her life or do something to help her.
We were never approached by a door to door marketing guy for the TTI.  We never barely knew these schools existed.  We reached out for help and we had friends and family who eventually pointed us to ASR.  I looked into it and started researching it and spoke to some professionals about what was involved.

The first step was to get her evaluated by a professional (or Aspen would not even talk to us).  So we had her evaluated locally and they recommended wilderness to see how she would respond and progress.  She went from there to ASR… the rest is History.

So the industry fulfilled a need that we had, not the other way around.



...

[reformed12stepper]

What amazes me is that the pro-program people here automatically assume that there was a legitimate reason for kids to be shipped off.  Most of the kids in Straight were just normal teens and didn't need that kind of harsh 'treatment' or any treatment at all (I can think of only 2 or 3 that had real problems).  As I've said before, I was the lightweight of my group and the only one sent to Straight.  Straight told my parents that not only me, but all my friends would be DIJ and it was so contradictory that the "worse" ones who didn't go ended up doing just fine....they grew out of their 'bad' behavior.  I, OTOH, ended up having more problems after getting out than I did before going in.  Again, as I've said before, my father was an extremely controlling person and when my parents got divorced he couldn't handle the fact that he couldn't dictate what I did, so he found a place where they could.

Nobody gets out of adolescence unscathed and programs use that to scare parents into admitting their kids.

I am sure the scare factor comes in a lot. I read jesus Land and it seems that the girl who was sent away to that horrible religious boot camp and her brother just had trouble communicating with their excessively strict and unreasonably judgmental religious parents. If nothing else it showed the dark side of any fundamentalist faith. It certainly sounds Anne like this was a similar case for you as well (maybe minus the religious aspect) and no doubt for many of the kids you were in with and I am sorry to hear that. But by the same token when I watched the congressional hearings most of the parents that spoke there really did sound like they just were not sure what to do and that they were sold something far from the reality. it also did not seem that they were unsophisticated hicks. I have to say I honestly don't know what I would do if I had a kid who was suicidal or who I felt was out of my control. Mental illness really can be such a complex and difficult thing for a family to handle, Because I dont have kids I feel like i cant sit in judgement of those who are struggling with theirs. But it is also immoral to just lock people up. I think it is like anything that happens gradually. It can seem absurd from the outside looking in but then to someone who feels like they are running out of options what was once abhorrent becomes a little more normal as a concept and then in the blink of an eye more people are saying it is OK and you just go along. Afterall this is how nazi germany more or less happened

[DannyB II]

Anne I am not coming from a pro program point of view at all. I am just stating the facts of my childhood. Ironic thing about my parents was, they were extremely gifted with intelligence, my Dad was borderline genius and my Mother held a Phd in Education, my Dad also held a Phd in Aerospace Metallurgy. They were just sick and needed help and would not get it.
The reality is, I was sent away often, too much, I have not even mentioned the private schools I was sent to. I was fighting back against my parents abuse the best I could, it just took a toll on me. Being as young as I was and wanting my parents affection, validation and admiration and never getting it, the rejection was just to overwhelming for me.
I believe this is why when I found drugs and alcohol I took to it like a baby on a breast, the self medicating qualities were just to much to ignore for me.
In a weird sort of way the friends I made at Elan, I bonded to quickly and with no restraint, I felt the same from others. It was like we finally found others like us, families screwed up, we being hooked on drugs, smashed dreams and wanting to fit in somewhere.
I am so happy to here all the people you (Anne) have met from Straight, were not screwed up and had no problems at all but were still sent to Straight. Because I am sitting right now as I am typing with 5 guys and three of them were at Straight and they are saying they were "fucked up" prior to going to Straight, not that Straight helped them. Don't confuse what I am saying, please.
Anne, just because a lot of us were "fucked up" before we went to our programs, in no way makes it right that they abused us, absolutely not. I will never forget what Elan did to people there, ever.
Most of us turned out OK, though I will not put it all on Elan. Family problems, divorces, parental abuse, sibling abuse, society abuse and all these things add to people problems with life.

Thought I would post this again.

[Anne Bonney]

Anne I am not coming from a pro program point of view at all. I am just stating the facts of my childhood. Ironic thing about my parents was, they were extremely gifted with intelligence, my Dad was borderline genius and my Mother held a Phd in Education, my Dad also held a Phd in Aerospace Metallurgy. They were just sick and needed help and would not get it.
The reality is, I was sent away often, too much, I have not even mentioned the private schools I was sent to. I was fighting back against my parents abuse the best I could, it just took a toll on me. Being as young as I was and wanting my parents affection, validation and admiration and never getting it, the rejection was just to overwhelming for me.
I believe this is why when I found drugs and alcohol I took to it like a baby on a breast, the self medicating qualities were just to much to ignore for me.
In a weird sort of way the friends I made at Elan, I bonded to quickly and with no restraint, I felt the same from others. It was like we finally found others like us, families screwed up, we being hooked on drugs, smashed dreams and wanting to fit in somewhere.
I am so happy to here all the people you (Anne) have met from Straight, were not screwed up and had no problems at all but were still sent to Straight. Because I am sitting right now as I am typing with 5 guys and three of them were at Straight and they are saying they were "fucked up" prior to going to Straight, not that Straight helped them. Don't confuse what I am saying, please.
Anne, just because a lot of us were "fucked up" before we went to our programs, in no way makes it right that they abused us, absolutely not. I will never forget what Elan did to people there, ever.
Most of us turned out OK, though I will not put it all on Elan. Family problems, divorces, parental abuse, sibling abuse, society abuse and all these things add to people problems with life.

Thought I would post this again.

Why?

[Anne Bonney]

Because I am sitting right now as I am typing with 5 guys and three of them were at Straight and they are saying they were "fucked up" prior to going to Straight, not that Straight helped them.

First, you'll notice that I said most, not all

Read for comprehension DannyBoi.