Considering full moderation

[Whooter]

Hahahahahaha... oh fuck, babies and bathwater. You're shitting us, right, Psy? You've got to be shitting us. Please tell me you are shitting us.

No.  I'm not.  Ginger and I made the final decision last night.  I'll be drafting up a new constitution for the forum tonight.  I'll post it publicly for comment, and then ratify it once it meets the group's majority approval.  Outing parents in the way you did before, resulting in a kid being sent to a program, is not going to happen again.  You think parents are likely to listen to anybody on the anti-program side after you out them?  You made us all look like lunatics.  It's unpleasant sometimes but parents ultimately hold the kid's fate in their hands and if it's necessary to hold your tongue and be diplomatic to prevent the kids being sent to programs, it's worth it.  In this one case, Whooter is absolutely right.  You have a good deal of responsibility to bear for Morgan being sent to a program.  Driving off parents for kicks won't be tolerated anymore on this forum.  You weren't even in a program.  What do you care, other than for the drama you feed off of.  As far as I can tell you're pretty much the only person objecting to this.

Actually, I'm all for outing parents who won't listen to reason. They need to be punished to serve as a warning to other idiot parents. The timing is what I object to in this case, but that's neither here nor there because Daniel Gauss, the asshole he is, was bound and determined to send his kid to a program long before anyone else got involved. Evidence collected from Morgan's friends show she's been stressing this issue for months. That's months of Daniel Gauss's opinions hardening on the merits of sending his daughter to a program. That's months of Morgan's mother consulting the spirit guides.

Parents should only be outed when it is abundantly clear that they just aren't going to listen.

Morgan really didn't have a chance in the first place, her fate was signed and sealed.

also, please don't ever make light of anyone being a program survivor or not. Some of the biggest supporters of Morgan at the moment haven't even stepped foot in a program. The majority of the people who signed onto help that are program survivors are too busy fucking around on fornits and reveling in their victim status. Most of the program survivors involved in the facebook group seem to busy weeping along with some pansy assed liberal agenda to send a god damn email, make a phone call, or to send a fax.

There are a few who are doing there bit, god bless them, but the majority are about as useful as tits on a wart hog.

Actually you are wrong, Che, I spoke with the Gauss's.  You are just doing damage control here on fornits.  The problem is that you and Pile are just immature.  If you don’t get your way you go off and do something destructive and you don’t care who you hurt.  Why harm a young girl who never did anything to hurt you and Pile?  Where is the sense in that?

The Gauss's were open to dialog all along but you were intent on force feeding them more than they could handle in one sitting and looking for a commitment not to send Morgan.  You tried to accomplish this in a few hours where the problem took years to come to a head.
You know very little about parenting and the responsibility that goes along with it.

On the flip side what would you think if I said I was all for outing survivors who didnt listen to reason.  Would it be right if I tried to convince a survivor that they were not abused, call them a liar and tell  them that if they didn’t start posting honestly on fornits stating clearly that they could have been helped by their program if only they applied themselves and the abuse was self inflicted then I would plaster their name,photo and address all over a porn site.  Would this be tolerated at the same level as Morgans outing was?



...

[Whooter]

Whoo -
1. Again, I was not present where DL posted numbers.

I will stop here.  You were and you did but you choose to ignore it (and you know it because I linked to it in posts that you responded to).  I really dont care, Samara,  I am just making the point about you.  I know you cannot admit this openly here because then my definition of you just falls into place doesnt it?

Again I will stop here because the rest is just a pissing contest.



...

[Che Gookin]

Back up, I didn't speak to the Gauss's at all and had absolutely nothing to do with them being outed. The only thing I had to do with that incident is I sent Mr. "Assclown" Gauss an email offering to talk to him if he wanted to ask a former staff member of two different programs questions. My primary involvement came much later in this ordeal. And you speaking to them with your past history of being a program supporter certainly doesn't speak well for Morgan's chances of staying out of a program either. If we are going to take your word on this we all have to be absolutely frank with ourselves and remind ourselves just what kind of person you are and what you stand for.

You certainly tend to stand more for kids going to programs and your posts on Morgan's thread reflected this belief as well. Which leads me to believe you had a good deal to do with her going to a program yourself.

I didn't and still don't approve with the timing of the outing. It should have only come after it was abundantly clear they weren't going to listen. After it crossed that line I would have had no problem with any sort out outing.

I'm not even going to get into a dialogue with you about outing survivors. We've both done it and both are huge assholes for having done it. Anyone who does that sort of shit ought to be banned on spot. There IS absolutely no comparison between a survivor of a program and a dirtbag parent who refuses to listen to people who are telling them they are putting their kid at risk.

[Whooter]

Back up, I didn't speak to the Gauss's at all and had absolutely nothing to do with them being outed. The only thing I had to do with that incident is I sent Mr. "Assclown" Gauss an email offering to talk to him if he wanted to ask a former staff member of two different programs questions. My primary involvement came much later in this ordeal. And you speaking to them with your past history of being a program supporter certainly doesn't speak well for Morgan's chances of staying out of a program either. If we are going to take your word on this we all have to be absolutely frank with ourselves and remind ourselves just what kind of person you are and what you stand for.

You certainly tend to stand more for kids going to programs and your posts on Morgan's thread reflected this belief as well. Which leads me to believe you had a good deal to do with her going to a program yourself.

I didn't and still don't approve with the timing of the outing. It should have only come after it was abundantly clear they weren't going to listen. After it crossed that line I would have had no problem with any sort out outing.

I'm not even going to get into a dialogue with you about outing survivors. We've both done it and both are huge assholes for having done it. Anyone who does that sort of shit ought to be banned on spot.

Everyone who has read my posts know that I am an advocate of local service first and programs as a last resort.  Morgans chances at a local option were taken off the table by you guys (or Pile).
I stand for kids getting help.   You stand for kids not going to programs.  There is nothing helpful or pro active in your thinking or cause, Che.

There IS absolutely no comparison between a survivor of a program and a dirtbag parent who refuses to listen to people who are telling them they are putting their kid at risk.

What about a comparison between a concerned parent who is worried and looking to help their child and dirtbag survivor who put themselves at risk prior to being placed and is speaking against a program which tried to help them and refuses to listen to people who are telling them that they could have been helped if only they had applied themselves?  They blew a ton of family money which could have been put towards their siblings education?  Should they be outed right away? or should we wait and give them a chance to listen to reason first?

Again you are speaking from your point of view.   You should step back and see the bigger picture.



...

[Che Gookin]

Everyone who has read my posts know that I am an advocate of local service first and programs as a last resort.  Morgans chances at a local option were taken off the table by you guys (or Pile).
I stand for kids getting help.   You stand for kids not going to programs.  There is nothing helpful or pro active in your thinking or cause, Che.

And you absolutely saw to it that Morgan got that help. Congrats, I'm sure she's down in La Pine Oregon right now enjoying the living hell out of that help. Don't even try your slimy insinuation that I had anything to do with the ED article. I was left well out of the loop on that one for a reason, they knew I'd object to it.

What about a comparison between a concerned parent who is worried and looking to help their child and dirtbag survivor who put themselves at risk prior to being placed and is speaking against a program which tried to help them and refuses to listen to people who are telling them that they could have been helped if only they had applied themselves?  They blew a ton of family money which could have been put towards their siblings education?  Should they be outed right away? or should we wait and give them a chance to listen to reason first?

Again you are speaking from your point of view.   You should step back and see the bigger picture.



...

Clearly this would be a matter for the courts. You can't seriously entertain the idea that I'm going to agree to any person being shipped away without the benefit of due process for any reason. I REALLY DO believe that a person is better off dead than being deprived of their right to due process. Therefore, any parent who chooses to deny their child a day in court, are dirtbags and deserve everything they have coming to them.

Nice try though.

[DannyB II]

Hahahahahaha... oh fuck, babies and bathwater. You're shitting us, right, Psy? You've got to be shitting us. Please tell me you are shitting us.

No.  I'm not.  Ginger and I made the final decision last night.  I'll be drafting up a new constitution for the forum tonight.  I'll post it publicly for comment, and then ratify it once it meets the group's majority approval.  Outing parents in the way you did before, resulting in a kid being sent to a program, is not going to happen again.  You think parents are likely to listen to anybody on the anti-program side after you out them?  You made us all look like lunatics.  It's unpleasant sometimes but parents ultimately hold the kid's fate in their hands and if it's necessary to hold your tongue and be diplomatic to prevent the kids being sent to programs, it's worth it.  In this one case, Whooter is absolutely right.  You have a good deal of responsibility to bear for Morgan being sent to a program.  Driving off parents for kicks won't be tolerated anymore on this forum.  You weren't even in a program.  What do you care, other than for the drama you feed off of.  As far as I can tell you're pretty much the only person objecting to this.

Actually, I'm all for outing parents who won't listen to reason. They need to be punished to serve as a warning to other idiot parents. The timing is what I object to in this case, but that's neither here nor there because Daniel Gauss, the asshole he is, was bound and determined to send his kid to a program long before anyone else got involved. Evidence collected from Morgan's friends show she's been stressing this issue for months. That's months of Daniel Gauss's opinions hardening on the merits of sending his daughter to a program. That's months of Morgan's mother consulting the spirit guides.

Parents should only be outed when it is abundantly clear that they just aren't going to listen.

Morgan really didn't have a chance in the first place, her fate was signed and sealed.

also, please don't ever make light of anyone being a program survivor or not. Some of the biggest supporters of Morgan at the moment haven't even stepped foot in a program. The majority of the people who signed onto help that are program survivors are too busy fucking around on fornits and reveling in their victim status. Most of the program survivors involved in the facebook group seem to busy weeping along with some pansy assed liberal agenda to send a god damn email, make a phone call, or to send a fax.

There are a few who are doing there bit, god bless them, but the majority are about as useful as tits on a wart hog.

Well Che, I can understand your anger at parents and Psy's reference to PODK's not being a survivor. What I don't understand is your comment that some of the "biggest supporters" of Morgan have never set foot in a program. That would whole heartedly be a erroneous statement, many of us have stayed in contact with Morgan in one way or another.
As far as parents being outed I would love to hear more on this, how would this help productively, how should a parent "hear" something and when should they "hear it"?
Parents need to be punished so as to teach other parents. So were in the, "vendetta business now" or in your case have been all along. Parents should be outed when they will not listen to Che and PODK's.
So it is Ok, for Che to barge in to a family dynamic at the request of a child posting here and aggressively start threatening them with exposure if they don't do what you want them too.
Che, did you ever stop and ask yourself why it is only PODK's and yourself acting in this way and it is definitely not on behalf of others here. Two common denominators both of you were never in a program and both of you have never been parents.
I am not trying to isolate either of you, I just find it hard to understand that your tactics will bear any ripe fruit, it seems it will only bring more discourse and push parents further away from fornits.
We have to remember this is a extremely sensitive circumstance for the child and the parents, everyone is usually at their wits end, grasping at straws, there is a lot of confusion. In these troubled days one parent is usually trying desperately to gain some control, while the other parent is very passive with worry. There has to be common sense introduced here with patience.

[Che Gookin]

Danny,

I don't think anyone here is going to believe that you've maintained any sort of contact with anyone other than your AA sponsor. Nice try though and better luck next time.

[Whooter]

And you absolutely saw to it that Morgan got that help. Congrats, I'm sure she's down in La Pine Oregon right now enjoying the living hell out of that help. Don't even try your slimy insinuation that I had anything to do with the ED article. I was left well out of the loop on that one for a reason, they knew I'd object to it.

See you think that people can force others to do what they want.  I cant force Morgans parents to do anything, Che.  This is where you and Pile miss the whole picture.  You think you can force people into your way of thinking and all it accomplishes is hurting someone.  If we try engaging them and understanding their dilemma and circumstances then maybe we can lend them our understanding and experiences.  I think Morgan would have benefited from local services as well as her parents, but you cant just force your point of view down peoples throats and then start smacking them around if they dont listen within the required time limit.

Clearly this would be a matter for the courts. You can't seriously entertain the idea that I'm going to agree to any person being shipped away without the benefit of due process for any reason. I REALLY DO believe that a person is better off dead than being deprived of their right to due process. Therefore, any parent who chooses to deny their child a day in court, are dirtbags and deserve everything they have coming to them.

Where does this “Due Process” come from?  How many kids that you know of get due process for anything?  Site some examples?  Do kids choose their medical options?  When and where they go to school?  Why cant they choose their own food to eat? Church to attend?  Whether to be circumcised or not?

Were your parents dirtbags because they forced you to go to a public school?  Were you given your day in court to decide to be unschooled or home schooled?  Should kids decide this? Should we expand the courts to accommodate every request by a child or just certain ones that you decide?



...

[psy]

Actually, I'm all for outing parents who won't listen to reason. They need to be punished to serve as a warning to other idiot parents.

Do you really think a single parent is going to be deterred just because some other parent was outed?  There is no point to it. There is no shame to it. The only outrage at the parents comes from here.  It's not an effective deterrent and even if it was it wouldn't be worth the cause in driving others away.  Parents do not want to contact people they think are crazy and might out them.  They already perceive those who criticize programs as most likely homeless drug addict fuck-ups.

Before you call a parent hopeless remember KarenInDallas.  Even after a kid is placed in a program there is still a chance the parents will eventually listen, especially if what they've been told prior to placement lines up with what their kids report.  The key, the absolute key, is to get the parents to listen for long enough that they can absorb key information so they can figure things out on their own.  You explain "this might happen in the program" and their kid reports the exact same thing...  regardless of how far gone you think parents can go, that sets off alarm bells.  That cannot happen if communication is severed.  You don't burn bridges.  There is no advantage to it, strategically, ethically, or otherwise.

The timing is what I object to in this case, but that's neither here nor there because Daniel Gauss, the asshole he is, was bound and determined to send his kid to a program long before anyone else got involved. Evidence collected from Morgan's friends show she's been stressing this issue for months. That's months of Daniel Gauss's opinions hardening on the merits of sending his daughter to a program. That's months of Morgan's mother consulting the spirit guides.

Parents should only be outed when it is abundantly clear that they just aren't going to listen.

And that worked wonders for KarenInDallas.  All it did was turn her further into a raging opponent to the program. It took dedication, hard work, logic, and persistence to get her to realize the truth about what was going on.  It was made infinitely more difficult by the vendetta against her.

Morgan really didn't have a chance in the first place, her fate was signed and sealed.

Don't defend him.  PODK came off like a lunatic, and Niles, unfortunately, followed right along.  Communication with a parents was severed as a result.  Because it's impossible to know now whether the parents could have been convinced not to place, the one chance that girl had was destroyed.  Any chance to educate her parents and convince them to remove the kid was similarly demolished.

also, please don't ever make light of anyone being a program survivor or not. Some of the biggest supporters of Morgan at the moment haven't even stepped foot in a program.

Do you honestly feel that somebody who wasn't in a program can truly understand what it was like?  I can say cult members might be able to, but other than that, unless you've read for years and years, people just don't get it.  I'm not saying I don't appreciate the support, but when you don't know what you're doing, you ask somebody to help rather than blasting off and risking a kid's future and sanity.

The majority of the people who signed onto help that are program survivors are too busy fucking around on fornits and reveling in their victim status. Most of the program survivors involved in the facebook group seem to busy weeping along with some pansy assed liberal agenda to send a god damn email, make a phone call, or to send a fax.

You're right.  More people should start fighting but I don't blame those who don't.  What else do you expect them to do when they were told for so long they're fated to failure.  Yes they're victims.  Some are resilient.  Some never recover. All we all can do is try.

[Whooter]

They already perceive those who criticize programs as most likely homeless drug addict fuck-ups.

I would have to agree the initial perception is pretty bad especially with those who come across as extreme and out on the fringe.


- Pile Of Dead Kids 3/18/2010

I think an important point that Psy made was that if you are honest and upfront with the parents then they will remember the information as credible.  Worse case (for you) If they do end up placing their child in a program and the information that you told them turns out to be true…i.e. Dad they strip search me every night,  they open my mail, they withhold food etc… they may be more apt to believing their child is telling the truth and pull their child out early.  Morgans parents probably don’t believe any of the crap that they heard here and Morgan has lost her parents ear.

There is never anything gained by burning the bridge down.



...

[DannyB II]

Danny,

I don't think anyone here is going to believe that you've maintained any sort of contact with anyone other than your AA sponsor. Nice try though and better luck next time.

Che, stop insulting me, please. I have asked you to stop several times. Che it is over, lets act like men now. I am apologizing for my past actions and just want to turn the page.
Yes Che, I did stay in touch with Morgan. If you have a problem with this I am sorry. Maybe when you get the chance you can ask her yourself.
I will say this Che, like yourself I did not want to see her go either but I was also torn by the parental care she was getting.
I will not discuss this matter anymore because of the sensitive nature.

[Che Gookin]

Danny,

I don't think anyone here is going to believe that you've maintained any sort of contact with anyone other than your AA sponsor. Nice try though and better luck next time.

Che, stop insulting me, please. I have asked you to stop several times. Che it is over, lets act like men now. I am apologizing for my past actions and just want to turn the page.
Yes Che, I did stay in touch with Morgan. If you have a problem with this I am sorry. Maybe when you get the chance you can ask her yourself.
I will say this Che, like yourself I did not want to see her go either but I was also torn by the parental care she was getting.
I will not discuss this matter anymore because of the sensitive nature.

No you didn't, no you don't, and no you never will.


Psy:

Back up two steps and listen to what I'm saying. I'm not defend Milk or Niles, what they did was silly and a waste of effort. Karen in Dallas is an entirely different person in all of this. Her son wasn't in a program at the time. Daniel Guass has his daughter in a program. I have no problem outing people who refuse to listen to reason and refuse to remove their kids from a program. You know me well enough that it takes more than just one simple no from a dipshit parent for someone like me to consider something aggressive like outing their personal information.

Besides, I would have never bothered with something like ED. I would have done everything I could to destroy his job. Pretty damn hard to pay for a program when you are out of work.

[Maximilian]

I'm finding this all very amusing. Remember to stay on topic, it's a rule now.

[Che Gookin]

^^ Lol someone that gets it. It was fun while it lasted.


 :rofl:

[Watchful Yeoman]

Will "full moderation" deal with posts like this?  I saw this thread and was interested in the AARC discussion, but then here was the "Fornits troll" blatantly identifying someone whom he was arguing with as someone who sexually molests his own child.

JD, since you killed your son, you can't have contact with him at all, moderated or not.  Your mania, stupidity, ignorance and laziness seem to be in an epic battle for dominance.  Who will win JD?  Will your next post be shameful because it's rooted in stupidity, ignorance, laziness or your inability to think rationally when your compulsions are driving you?

why are you obsessed with this JD guy?  It isnt going to help you keep your son or erase what you do to him each night.  We both know that yet you keep throwing personal attacks at other people hoping the pain will go away.

You are sick Ajax13.  Stop molesting and abusing your son.  Just because this poster proved you wrong is no reason to take it out on your own family.  Its only a forum.  Leave your kid in peace.

This is the "Fornits troll" who above is telling other posters that it's not OK to go after people personally, but there he is accusing someone else of sexually molesting their own child.  Where were the "moderators" on this one?  Absent again I suppose.

This "Fornits troll" should be permanently banned immediately as suggested by an earlier poster in this thread.