Academy at Sisters

[Awake]

To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

I don’t know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You can’t ‘win’, you really can’t, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you can’t just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, can’t make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

.

Very nicely stated, Awake.  Morgan, you should consider those wise words and try to look at those as the best path to get you to age 18.  If you can resolve this locally, working with your parents and with a counselor you will be better off.



...

There are a lot of voices on fornits.  I think my advice is sound and there’s  no reason to influence this family to go to measures that are unwarranted.  It sounds to me like they are at the right place with each other to make a compromise that respects everyone.

[Pile of Dead Kids]

There are a lot of voices on fornits.  I think my advice is sound and there’s  no reason to influence this family to go to measures that are unwarranted.  It sounds to me like they are at the right place with each other to make a compromise that respects everyone.

You think wrong; mommy's eating programmie bullshit by the bucketload, daddy doesn't have the balls to say no so is giving his daughter lots of little things to try to make up for it, and daughter still has no real idea what she's in for.

[Whooter]

Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation.

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

Brandi Elliot is with the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, probably along with Jim Powell, if I recall correctly.

However, the organization which will probably impact Morgan's parents more directly will be the Next Step For Success parent coaching seminars. Former CEDU personnel involved with that include:

• Penelope Valentine - RMA?
• Bill Valentine - parents' workshops, RMA
• Vicki Jones - ?
• Barbara Cass - counselor at ? in 1976, co-founder of Cascade School

I can see that you may be upset with them personally.  But that doesnt effect how Academy at Sisters operates.  Its important to keep that distinction.

I am sure if they tried to use the confrontation therapy on the parents they wouldnt go for that at all and would hang up the phone and ask for their money back, so I am sure they dont use it anymore.

...

[Paul St. John]

I remember there was a post, where the dad something like  "if she would agree to go to regular counseling,, we wouldn t send her to the program, I am sure"

I thought that the "I am sure" part was funny, because that told me that it really isn t up to him, or at least he doesn t think so.

It appears that mommy is all for it.  If you go on the tour, that's pretty much it.. They got ya from there.

I stick by what I said originally.. Whether she goes to the program or not, she has got to get to 18, and get the fuck out.  My understanding is that she is a compulsive liar, and she has some other bad habits too.. much worse then bad grades.  My guess would be that her parent's troubled relationship has a real lot to do with this.

I also agree that the girl still doesnt know what she is getting  into, and she won t until she s there. That s just the way it is.

However, I do also think, that you catch more flies with honey, and I don t think that hurling insults at these people or talking to them like they are idiots will get them to come around, even if it does make you feel good.  You may be right about a lot of it, but if it doesn t work, what is the fucking point?

I strongly dislike "Suck_It", but he makes some points. I would find it hard as a parent to take most of the posters seriously- no offense.

This girl is not going to the straights or elan of the 70's, and if she were, I may recomend that she run, or perhaps, even choose jail.
But under these particular circumstances that is irrational.

Although " Suck_It", it is in fact possible that they might strip search her, and even search her ass for drugs.  Some places still do that shit.

And sometimes violence even can work, a friend of mine got out of a treatment center not too long ago, by flipping the fuck out, and threatening in detail, to beat the living shit out of everyone in there, on like his first day  They were terrified of him, and the short story is, he got out, and went about his life.  Telling this story, it doesn t sound very believable, but it is the truth.  He had been in a center when he was a kid, and though he is now, an adult, when they started using all the terms, and shit, he completely lost it, and became a totally different person.  All he knew was that he had to get out.

and the son of a bitch did.. LOL

But he is an adult of course..

all in all, I think that the suggestions listed by suck it, basically make the people here appear just as he said- like crazy extremists.

Paul

[Paul St. John]

All the same, a program is not the solution.  You are making a mountain out of a mole hill!

[Ursus]

Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation.

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

Brandi Elliot is with the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, probably along with Jim Powell, if I recall correctly.

However, the organization which will probably impact Morgan's parents more directly will be the Next Step For Success parent coaching seminars. Former CEDU personnel involved with that include:

• Penelope Valentine - RMA?
• Bill Valentine - parents' workshops, RMA
• Vicki Jones - ?
• Barbara Cass - counselor at ? in 1976, co-founder of Cascade School

I can see that you may be upset with them personally.  But that doesnt effect how Academy at Sisters operates.  Its important to keep that distinction.

I am sure if they tried to use the confrontation therapy on the parents they wouldnt go for that at all and would hang up the phone and ask for their money back, so I am sure they dont use it anymore.

Well... since I wasn't upset, but merely happily investigating, it's curious that you start slinging the "oh, you're just upset" charges at this point in the conversation, Whooter.

Rather, it would appear that my research has upset you, lol. This song and dance is becoming quite familiar to me at this point...

Back to the more pertinent issues at hand...

An update for the line-up above: I have heard back from another poster here that Vicki Jones was, in fact, also at Rocky Mountain Academy. It's quite possible that they all were at RMA, given the obscure reference to a 1976 position as a counselor "at a therapeutic boarding school that was a pioneer in working with troubled teens" made re. Barbara Cass, along with the fact that she spent about 20 years or so at Cascade School (founded by CEDU-ites).

[Whooter]

Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.



...

[Ursus]

Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.

AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  

[Ursus]

Fwiw, a previous comment from another thread re. Bill Valentine's influence in CEDU, bold emphasis added:


Originally posted on 26 Apr 2009:

As far as I know, the Benchmark staff never received any sort of actual coaching license from the ICF (not that a "life coach certificate" means anything, as evidenced by penn and teller's bullshit episode on the subject). All they did was take 30 hours of coursework which they seem to have invented a fancy abbreviation for ("ACSTH Certified") which stands for "Approved Coach Specific Training Hours".

Also, Bill Valentine, if you remember correctly, was good buddies with Mel Wasserman at CEDU. He helped develop the parent seminars with Mel (from est and LifeSpring), according to a phone conversation I had with Penelope. Their website used to credit Mel Wasserman for their phillosophy until I pointed it out, after which it was promptly deleted (but I have a screenshot).

[Whooter]

Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.

AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  

I have a tendency to respond to whatever is written in the post (all responses)  because it reads better to me.  I agree it would have been clearer (to you) if I went back to find Awakes thread and respond to that independently.



...

[Awake]

Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.

AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  

I have a tendency to respond to whatever is written in the post (all responses)  because it reads better to me.  I agree it would have been clearer (to you) if I went back to find Awakes thread and respond to that independently.



...

I can see past the individual behavior. In fact, despite your focus, from my memory she was acting entirely within the proper guidelines suggested to the staff by cedu. The problem is that the program itself prescribed abusive situations. No one seems to contend that here. If the staff doesn’t come out and speak against it themselves should we assume they understand what they were doing was wrong? I’d agree that this should become a standard within the industry so we can be sure the wrong influences are filtered out.

[Ursus]

Fwiw, another previous comment, this time re. Mel Wasserman's influence on the Valentines and their current coaching endeavors. Bill Valentine has another personal coaching enterprise called EverHigher.com. Apparently a reference to Wasserman was originally on this site (not sure if this is the same instance as noted above); bold emphasis added:


Originally posted on 12 Oct 2007:

We are especially indebted to:  Mel Wasserman, the founder of emotional-growth education, for providing us with the experience of the power of transparent personal relationships;

This is their selling point? Ah.. mah.. gahd...

Source please?  Oh the idiots at Benchmark keep making it easier and easier...

They seem to like to fling that term around... transparent... interesting euphemism for the same things we learned.

It was on the link you gave me, silly!

http://everhigher.com/PLworkshopdescription.htm

First sentence of the second paragraph.

[DannyB II]

Or you could do what you can to end up in jail instead, which is a better place.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on fornits, and that's saying a lot.

How can we prepare her for the possibility of a haircut, fingering of her private parts

You are all fucking insane.

This doesn't begin to tell the story, what pile is doing along with his cohorts is "patho". Yeah, lets scare the shit out of her because her parents did not listen, how is this helping. You tried and I think it was valient yet like so many other kids she is going. Now don't ya think we should start preparing her as Oscar said.
I just hope that there is some other solution other then bashing the parents and Morgan by default.

[Awake]

There is no reason to be prescribing unnecessary risks. This girl is obviously very intelligent, nothing here has indicated that she is a threat to her own life.  Who here would really sign her off on this sentence?.  So far this 14 yr old is communicating in as adult a fashion as anyone here, arguably moreso.  Supporting action of this kind against this girl should come with some solid reasoning.

I still think that everyone is acting reasonable enough to do this at home, and that is the best solution.

.

[DannyB II]

I remember there was a post, where the dad something like  "if she would agree to go to regular counseling,, we wouldn t send her to the program, I am sure"

I thought that the "I am sure" part was funny, because that told me that it really isn t up to him, or at least he doesn t think so.

It appears that mommy is all for it.  If you go on the tour, that's pretty much it.. They got ya from there.

I stick by what I said originally.. Whether she goes to the program or not, she has got to get to 18, and get the fuck out.  My understanding is that she is a compulsive liar, and she has some other bad habits too.. much worse then bad grades.  My guess would be that her parent's troubled relationship has a real lot to do with this.

I also agree that the girl still doesnt know what she is getting  into, and she won t until she s there. That s just the way it is.

However, I do also think, that you catch more flies with honey, and I don t think that hurling insults at these people or talking to them like they are idiots will get them to come around, even if it does make you feel good.  You may be right about a lot of it, but if it doesn t work, what is the fucking point?

I strongly dislike "Suck_It", but he makes some points. I would find it hard as a parent to take most of the posters seriously- no offense.

This girl is not going to the straights or elan of the 70's, and if she were, I may recomend that she run, or perhaps, even choose jail.
But under these particular circumstances that is irrational.

Although " Suck_It", it is in fact possible that they might strip search her, and even search her ass for drugs.  Some places still do that shit.

And sometimes violence even can work, a friend of mine got out of a treatment center not too long ago, by flipping the fuck out, and threatening in detail, to beat the living shit out of everyone in there, on like his first day  They were terrified of him, and the short story is, he got out, and went about his life.  Telling this story, it doesn t sound very believable, but it is the truth.  He had been in a center when he was a kid, and though he is now, an adult, when they started using all the terms, and shit, he completely lost it, and became a totally different person.  All he knew was that he had to get out.

and the son of a bitch did.. LOL

But he is an adult of course..

all in all, I think that the suggestions listed by suck it, basically make the people here appear just as he said- like crazy extremists.

Paul

Paul not to jump on the band wagon, your right she is going whether we like it or not, I wish things were different because the issues at home seem to be the makings of her parents and she is getting the shit end of the stick. So even if this program was out of "heaven" (which it is not) she will probably still end up with a resentment towards her parents.
I have been beating several drums concerning the TTI and 2 of them have surfaced here;
One being parents own emotional/mental issues and irresponsibility of parenting a child, which seems to end with a child that has to go somewhere, this bothers me a great deal. I understand that Morgan has her part and at some point real soon she will have to take responsibility for her actions but why does it have to come to this. Separation of the communion/family.
Yes as a child I went through this, I still have not completely healed (no shit...lol, Anne. That was for you. ) seriously though this should not even be considered until everything else has been exhausted. Someone said it in a earlier post, you can never get those years, emotions and memories back, there gone. Someone else will be raising your daughter, instilling their values, morals, there ideas of responsibility, their perception of life and they will be learning this from a emotionally detached teacher not from a loving parent.
Two how we respond to parents and children who come to this site looking for help, insight, a shoulder and a board/site to bounce ideas off of.
We do not control the parents, child or the outcomes of their actions and just because they don't agree with what we say, does not mean we should chastise them. We definitely should not express crazy off the wall ideas, so that they think we are immature and not want to come back with follow up information.
I for one would like to hear back from Morgans parents will follow up conversations, so we can know how she is doing, is she being denied calls, are her parents worried, ect....but if we continue to insult them, we will not have this ideal opportunity to stay connected with a actual family that are experiencing a program. Well actually it will be Morgan.
Guys I'm just trying to be reasonable and fair.