does residential really help and which one is good

[maruska]

Did the parents know?

[Ursus]

Of course it says that, Ursus.  Kids stay in programs day after day after day, night after night after night.  Search the web for any reference you choose.  It was a nice back peddle, though, and a good try to cover for Anne.

But the topic we were talking about and the post we were referencing was this one.

Link

Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."

Just to be clear this isn’t night , after, night, after night, no matter how you read it or spin it.  Its one overnight and they get to sleep from 5 till 7 then finished up around 2 in the afternoon.

Its a clear example of how things get embellished here.   If I didnt call you on this the story would grow into a week with no sleep, food or water lol

NO. I was not referring to "kids stay[ing] in programs day after day after day, night after night after night."

I was referring to group psychodrama sessions which would last 1.5 - 3 days. I also quoted a source, perhaps you missed that. Here it is again, from an excerpt posted previously:

"He was also alarmed by the few bits of information he heard about the so-called Life Step sessions, forms of group therapy in which several students would be taken to one of the buildings for day-and-a-half to three-day stays."[/list]

[Whooter]

Of course it says that, Ursus.  Kids stay in programs day after day after day, night after night after night.  Search the web for any reference you choose.  It was a nice back peddle, though, and a good try to cover for Anne.

But the topic we were talking about and the post we were referencing was this one.

Link

Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."

Just to be clear this isn’t night , after, night, after night, no matter how you read it or spin it.  Its one overnight and they get to sleep from 5 till 7 then finished up around 2 in the afternoon.

Its a clear example of how things get embellished here.   If I didnt call you on this the story would grow into a week with no sleep, food or water lol



...

OMG...19 or 20 hours without sleep??  


THAT is abuse. End of story..

I do not think the police can use such a tactic here with criminals...and we are speaking about children!

Are you sure you have raised teenagers?  Mine would go that long without sleep... I remember doing it myself when I was younger.   Staying up till 5 in the morning isnt considered abusive in any country that I am aware of.
This is what I mean about redefining the word abuse here.  It takes on its own definition.



...

[Samara]

Well, we are talking about forced lack of sleep combined with forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.

Maruska: Families were treated to occasional demos of these experentials. They were modified for public consumption and total BS.

In my experience, along with other people, parents were kept away from us. We were afraid to tell the truth. Kind of like those polygamy cults in Utah where people are afraid to speak freely. We also drank the KoolAid to make the time go by easier.  We were kept geographically apart without access to telephones or uncensored letters. (Our letters were read before they were sent.)  All contact was monitored.  Our visits occurred once every 3 months on campus.  

Staff manipulated parents to keep us there. (For profit!) Staff would play to their fears and say that we would be dead insane or in jail if they let us go. By the way, I was never a drug addict or a criminal or a threat to others. CEDU was the worst place for me. Most of the other kids were just typically rebellious kids. Some were very defiant, but whatever the case may be, trenchant emotional abuse is not the answer.

[maruska]

Come on,Whooter,  you cannot be serious!

 Don´t you see the difference?



Samara, did your parents learn the truth ...ever?

[DannyB II]

To all readers I would like you too see the FORNITS machine at work. Maruska and Whooter were having a conversation about there children and because FORNITS does not like Whooters opinions on the Troubled Teen Industry they railroad him in this fashion. I want all new and old readers to know that this happens often. They advocate for independence, Freedom, Free speech, Not Bullying, No Peer Pressure and No Intimadation.  
What your about to read is a verbal assualt on Whooter to discredit him. Tell me if you think it is fair.

 

Re: does residential really help and which one is good

Postby Dysfunction Junction » Today, 9:57 am

 
Paul St. John wrote:Just out of curiosity Whooter.. How do these therapeutic boarding schools go about instilling self-esteem, in the participants. I am not trying to be challenging, here, necessarily. I would like to have more facts, upon which to base my own judgments?

What is the practiced theory, methodology, etc., as relates to facilitating the development of self-esteem, in young individuals?

Paul


Whooter wrote:
Okay I'll give it a shot.

Just talking out loud here

I really don’t know the nuts and bolts of what they did at ASR but I can tell you that my daughter learned how to appreciate a compliment without sidestepping the feeling. She got to a point prior to her placement where she would change the subject if she was complimented on something she did, which was a red flag for me. Ever since she smiles and accepts it.

She was taught that she was not a victim and should not play that part and that failure was not a conclusion which defined her. It was an opportunity to see a path that was followed once but she had the power to chose another path and she did.
They taught her to change the way she thought about herself and to try to avoid negative thoughts.
She was tutored and taught how to study and make herself successful and get good grades.
They helped her to set short and well defined goals and they celebrated each time she reached a milestone.
They taught her great listening skills which helped her and I communicate so much better.. (she taught me a thing or two in this area, lol).
I think the most important thing is they taught her to love herself for who she was. If she wanted to work at Walmart and get an apartment and a dog then that was great. If she wanted to go to college that was good too.
She learned to accept the path which led her to ASR and not feel guilty or dwell on circumstances which are in the past.
She expected to be treated well by others and wouldn’t accept being stepped on by friends, (this was great to watch
She was on top of the world when she graduated and continues to do well today.

 I hope this he

DJ wrote:
That is great! And interesting to read. But, why did YOU not teach her that? I see nothing in your list that would not be not possible to achieve at home.....
I really do not get it....

Yes, maruska, it is great, but unfortunately, it's also fiction.

Whooter has already admitted that his daughter estranged herself from him and as soon as she got home she went right back to heavy drinking and drugging immediately with all of her old friends.

He also neglects to mention that when she got home she also dropped out of high school and didn't even finish that.

So, these tales of happiness, joy and success are just part of Whooter's program marketing and not actually real or part of his story. People should know this when reading Whooter's drivel.

The scariest part of Whooter's response? He didn't then, and still does not now know anything they did to his daughter at ASR and he's fine with that. This is classic Machiavellian logic: the ends justify the means. For all he knows, this "change" happened due to "S&M therapy" at ASR. He doesn't know and doesn't care.

Whooter wrote:I think we know who the liar is, DJ. I never sent you a PM.

Whooter wrote:Exactly, The customer is the parent, the product is the child.

"Just a regular parent" Whooter admits "fiduciary interest" in Aspen Education Group.

Whooter ("Children are products") is an uneducated industry shill and his credibility = 0.
*****************************************************************************************************************************

Re: does residential really help and which one is good

Postby Samara » Today, 10:32 am
In addition, he obfuscates the all night experential called The Truth, comparing it to a study all-nighter. This could not be further from the truth. The all night experential is an encounter group - it is harmful, abusive psychodrama using sleep deprivation to help break down the kids' defenses and boundaries.
Samara
 
learning about "self-esteem" at ASR

*****************************************************************************************************************************


Postby Ursus » Today, 10:40 am

    Whooter wrote:

        Paul St. John wrote:Just out of curiosity Whooter.. How do these therapeutic boarding schools go about instilling self-esteem, in the participants. I am not trying to be challenging, here, necessarily. I would like to have more facts, upon which to base my own judgments?

        What is the practiced theory, methodology, etc., as relates to facilitating the development of self-esteem, in young individuals?

        Paul


    Okay I'll give it a shot.

    Just talking out loud here:

    I really don’t know the nuts and bolts of what they did at ASR but I can tell you that my daughter learned how to appreciate a compliment without sidestepping the feeling. She got to a point prior to her placement where she would change the subject if she was complimented on something she did, which was a red flag for me. Ever since she smiles and accepts it.

    She was taught that she was not a victim and should not play that part and that failure was not a conclusion which defined her. It was an opportunity to see a path that was followed once but she had the power to chose another path and she did.

    They taught her to change the way she thought about herself and to try to avoid negative thoughts.

    She was tutored and taught how to study and make herself successful and get good grades.

    They helped her to set short and well defined goals and they celebrated each time she reached a milestone.

    They taught her great listening skills which helped her and I communicate so much better.. (she taught me a thing or two in this area, lol).

    I think the most important thing is they taught her to love herself for who she was. If she wanted to work at Walmart and get an apartment and a dog then that was great. If she wanted to go to college that was good too.

    She learned to accept the path which led her to ASR and not feel guilty or dwell on circumstances which are in the past.

    She expected to be treated well by others and wouldn’t accept being stepped on by friends, (this was great to watch)

    She was on top of the world when she graduated and continues to do well today.

    I hope this helps.


Learning about "self-esteem" at the Academy at Swift River, from "Tough love may be a little too tough" (by Stephanie Kraft; June 24, 2006; Valley Advocate):

      ...On occasion, Kent had to get equipment from a maintenance closet next to a room that by September was being used for communication sessions. Often he heard the staff members who conducted the sessions shouting at the students; once, he said, he heard one of them yell at a student, "You fucking bastard!" Another time, Kent said, "I observed Brett Carey when he was literally hoarse after one of these sessions." Carey, who had been the dean of student life at ASR, is no longer at the school.

      At other times, Kent saw students compelled to do degrading make-work as punishment. One time, he said, he saw a girl forced to spend an entire day scrubbing a staircase with a toothbrush. He was also alarmed by the few bits of information he heard about the so-called Life Step sessions, forms of group therapy in which several students would be taken to one of the buildings for day-and-a-half to three-day stays.

      "I was instructed repeatedly on paper to prepare very minimal meals for these overnights," Kent said. "I would put up carrot sticks, celery sticks, crackers, cheese, hummus, a few turkey sandwiches, and this plate would be sufficient for two mealtimes. Then I would send a very light breakfast. The staff would have bagels and cream cheese, the kids could only have fruit and cereal. I worried about the fact that the food for the staff was different, and I felt that these were very light meals."

      Kent worried about whether the food was being rationed on a punish-and-reward basis during the sessions. The question was one of many the Advocate was unable to discuss with ASR officials, who declined to be interviewed about the program...

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

[DannyB II]

Well, we are talking about forced lack of sleep combined with forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.

Maruska: Families were treated to occasional demos of these experentials. They were modified for public consumption and total BS.

In my experience, along with other people, parents were kept away from us. We were afraid to tell the truth. Kind of like those polygamy cults in Utah where people are afraid to speak freely. We also drank the KoolAid to make the time go by easier.  We were kept geographically apart without access to telephones or uncensored letters. (Our letters were read before they were sent.)  All contact was monitored.  Our visits occurred once every 3 months on campus.  

Staff manipulated parents to keep us there. (For profit!) Staff would play to their fears and say that we would be dead insane or in jail if they let us go. By the way, I was never a drug addict or a criminal or a threat to others. CEDU was the worst place for me. Most of the other kids were just typically rebellious kids. Some were very defiant, but whatever the case may be, trenchant emotional abuse is not the answer.

Samara I was in Elan and I get ya, but shit girl. You sure do know how to turn on the drama when you want to. We get it.
danny

[Samara]

I'm surprised you say that when you don't say  the same re: repeated posts of other's. In this case, Maruska is making inquiries. I do not wish to have her derailed by Whooter.

I'm not stirring up too much drama or I'd use the abusive verbiage that I've seen full of vulgarities, threats and the more below the belt taunts.  (Familiar?) I'm actually surprised you'd accuse ME of stirring up drama. Need a mirror?  

I think you just like to say that to gals. We bring it up, it's drama. You bring it up, it's an "ass kicking."

[Anne Bonney]

Well, we are talking about forced lack of sleep combined with forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.

Maruska: Families were treated to occasional demos of these experentials. They were modified for public consumption and total BS.

In my experience, along with other people, parents were kept away from us. We were afraid to tell the truth. Kind of like those polygamy cults in Utah where people are afraid to speak freely. We also drank the KoolAid to make the time go by easier.  We were kept geographically apart without access to telephones or uncensored letters. (Our letters were read before they were sent.)  All contact was monitored.  Our visits occurred once every 3 months on campus.  

Staff manipulated parents to keep us there. (For profit!) Staff would play to their fears and say that we would be dead insane or in jail if they let us go. By the way, I was never a drug addict or a criminal or a threat to others. CEDU was the worst place for me. Most of the other kids were just typically rebellious kids. Some were very defiant, but whatever the case may be, trenchant emotional abuse is not the answer.

 :notworthy:  :notworthy:

[Whooter]

Well, we are talking about forced lack of sleep combined with forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.

So it seems you agree that staying up all night isnt abusive.  The post never mentioned forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.  But you feel if you add that to the mix then you can make it appear to be more abusive.

If you combine eating pizza with forced forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials that doesn't mean that eating pizza is abusive.

Do you see what I am saying?  Attack therapy may be abusive but staying up all night isnt.  You changed it.

...

[DannyB II]

I'm surprised you say that when you don't say  the same re: repeated posts of other's. In this case, Maruska is making inquiries. I do not wish to have her derailed by Whooter.

She (Maruska) was talking with whooter what gives you the right to interfere and start berating Whooter. I believe Maruska is a big girl and can handle her own business.

I'm not stirring up too much drama or I'd use the abusive verbiage that I've seen full of vulgarities, threats and the more below the belt taunts.  (Familiar?) I'm actually surprised you'd accuse ME of stirring up drama. Need a mirror?

 
Well you have a point there but com'on look at my enemy, I think Anne got a lot of flak for being in the line of fire. Now you samara do not have to cuss and hit below the belt to derail a thread and you know that, so go play that with someone else. I can be a hypocrite.
 

I think you just like to say that to gals. We bring it up, it's drama. You bring it up, it's an "ass kicking."

No there are Drama Kings too, not that your a Drama Queen. You were definitely on a rant, though.

[Samara]

Danny: This is an open forum. Whooter has been regurgitating and misleading for years. Yes, I feel compelled to jump in.  I know you don't see it- don't know what to tell you. I'm nit jumping on the bandwagon. I've noticed this for years and stayed out of the fray because Whooter is one big Pro Program Tar Baby. It's not that he has a certain perspective - it's that he intentionally misleads.

Whooter: Now you are comparing sleep to pizza! Come on! Any idiot knows sleep deprivation is an effective tool to break down the individual. Combined with attack therapy and LGATs - it is especially efficient.

[Whooter]

Danny: This is an open forum. Whooter has been regurgitating and misleading for years. Yes, I feel compelled to jump in.  I know you don't see it- don't know what to tell you. I'm nit jumping on the bandwagon. I've noticed this for years and stayed out of the fray because Whooter is one big Pro Program Tar Baby. It's not that he has a certain perspective - it's that he intentionally misleads.

Whooter: Now you are comparing sleep to pizza! Come on! Any idiot knows sleep deprivation is an effective tool to break down the individual. Combined with attack therapy and LGATs - it is especially efficient.

Thats right but go back and look at the post.  The post stated they kept the kids up all night until 5 am.  People argued this was abusive.  I disagree with that.  Many kids stay up that late outside of the program.  So instead of discussing it on those terms you add in attack therapy and other elements.  So of course at some point you can make it abusive, I agree, by changing it ... attack therapy,lack of food, lack of water, hourly beatings, humiliation, pulling out fingernails... it becomes abusive.

But I think considering that everyone needed to change the terms that we concluded that staying up till 5 am is not abusive.  That was the original post and the original argument.



...

[Ursus]

Well, we are talking about forced lack of sleep combined with forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.

So it seems you agree that staying up all night isnt abusive.  The post never mentioned forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials.  But you feel if you add that to the mix then you can make it appear to be more abusive.

If you combine eating pizza with forced forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials that doesn't mean that eating pizza is abusive.

Do you see what I am saying?  Attack therapy may be abusive but staying up all night isnt.  You changed it.

NO. She did not. YOU changed it, as well as the context, and tried to weasel your way out of being thoroughly baked via fiddling with semantics and obfuscation by pizza.

Here is the post you refer to and linked to above:

http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com ... f=1&id=279

Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."

[/b]

^ "The Truth" @ Academy Swift River

The post includes a quote from an article which refers to students being "denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called 'The Truth.' "

You aver that "the post never mentioned forced psychodramas, attack therapy and LGAT experientials."

Now... just what the hell do you think a Life Step session is? It's a forced psychodrama which includes attack therapy and LGAT experientals!

 :beat:

[Ursus]

Danny: This is an open forum. Whooter has been regurgitating and misleading for years. Yes, I feel compelled to jump in.  I know you don't see it- don't know what to tell you. I'm nit jumping on the bandwagon. I've noticed this for years and stayed out of the fray because Whooter is one big Pro Program Tar Baby. It's not that he has a certain perspective - it's that he intentionally misleads.

Whooter: Now you are comparing sleep to pizza! Come on! Any idiot knows sleep deprivation is an effective tool to break down the individual. Combined with attack therapy and LGATs - it is especially efficient.

Thats right but go back and look at the post.  The post stated they kept the kids up all night until 5 am.  People argued this was abusive.  I disagree with that.  Many kids stay up that late outside of the program.  So instead of discussing it on those terms you add in attack therapy and other elements.  So of course at some point you can make it abusive, I agree, by changing it ... attack therapy,lack of food, lack of water, hourly beatings, humiliation, pulling out fingernails... it becomes abusive.

But I think considering that everyone needed to change the terms that we concluded that staying up till 5 am is not abusive.  That was the original post and the original argument.

Yes, do look at that post, I've reposted it above. The post stated that kids were kept up all night until 5 a.m. doing a forced psychodrama which included attack therapy and LGAT experientals. People argued that this was abusive. It was.

The state of Massachusetts agreed. After the Massachusetts Office of Child Care Services investigated, ASR was cited for several infractions, which included monitoring students' telephone calls and mail as well as "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."

Whooter disagrees. He still claims it's not abusive. I guess that 'cuz he likes playing around with "terms?" Or perhaps, pizza.