Conduct Disorders again! No, it's not a troll.

[Pile of Dead Kids]

http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/f ... nce-33774/

It was me, hubby, gfg and our somewhat compliant children - 9 yo, 7 yo, 7yo.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stori ... 3464.shtml

For the 14 children ages 6 to 17

[Ursus]

Another fornits thread about Camp Consequence:

• Program for parents - please wear orange for your child
  viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27615

[Oscar]

Let evaluate the programs based on the length of the honeymoon period:

She was angry @ us and she grabbed a knife (gory details, be warned)

I honestly didn't know who she was going after but she cut her arm to the bone. Gory. Called 911. She was transported to the children's hospital. I rode with her. She didn't really mean to hurt/kill herself. She was trying to lash back at us...because we put her on a 24 hr restriction for cussing me out. So her response was to grab a kitchen knife and cut through tendon & muscle in her left arm. Well, we think she meant to do a superficial cut but her anger carried her away. I spent the night with her in the hospital. She *barely* avoided surgery...got 8 stitches and will have a splint. I'm shocked they didn't need to sew stuff back inside. {{shudder}}

I felt like we were on an upswing here. We had a plan and we were working our plan and seeing success. Now I feel lost again. She despises us. She told me so last night. I don't know what I can do to help her.

I quess that the right treatment for a self-harmer properly is putting the entire family in prison - younger siblings include, because most stories I have seen speaks of a honeymoon period of 2-3 months. Can we get some input from the parent's perspective - Whooter?

[Ursus]

I guess Camp Consequence didn't work out so well, eh?

For some perspective, one of her earlier posts, subject of the OP:

Back from Camp Consequence

Our family went to Camp Consequence this past weekend. It was brutal for kids and parents. It was me, hubby, gfg and our somewhat compliant children - 9 yo, 7 yo, 7yo. Our 3 year old was too young for camp so she stayed with a relative.

I had to lie to gfg to get her there. Well, I didn't lie but I let her think we were going home. It wasn't until we pulled in the correctional facility that she realized something was going on. (The camp is on the grounds of our local jail.) Fortunately, they were prepared & knew how to deal with her when she flipped out. My job was to get out of the van and to lock the door behind her when she got out so that she wouldn't try to get back in. She did indeed flip out!

She cried and carried on for 2 hours. Then she put her jumpsuit on and complied with the program 100% for the rest of the weekend.

I won't lie. Camp was miserable. We could NOT talk to our kids until Sunday. We worked in a garden with the kids on Saturday but we weren't allowed to talk to our kids at all. I wasn't able to comfort my 7 yo when he was put in a time out. (He had run up and told me he wanted to go home.) Poor kid sobbed & it broke my heart.

The parents came back from the garden earlier then the kids and we worked on our family plan, mapping out rules and consequences.

And the results so far??

Our home has already changed dramatically. Our younger kids were having a REALLY hard time getting to bed. In the past, I'd kindly ask then dh would ask but they wouldn't really get in bed & stay in bed until one of us blew. That problem has been solved. It makes our evenings so much nicer! And that was from our somewhat compliant children.

Our gfg?? She has been VERY compliant. She did tell me that she was just faking it and that she still planned on doing what she wanted. We found out that she's been smoking pot and she told me that she plans on cutting back now. Cutting back? As a part of camp, we visited the women in jail and they told us how they got there. 90% of them are in jail for drug charges. A little pot turned into other addictions which turned into prostitution for some of the women. One of the girls was arrested for having a few pot SEEDS in her wallet. She's been in jail for 9 months waiting for her court date. Some of the girls were arrested because they were simply around others were got busted. Oye! And my strong-willed gfg is just going to cut back??? We had her do a drug test on Sunday and it was negative so we know she is clear now. We'll do another one soon.

I have no doubt that we are in the honeymoon phase and that things will explode at some point. But for now...I'm really happy. Oh and she earned her first negative consequence for causing me to be late yesterday. I wish you could have seen gfg's face when she saw that we had the fridge locked! Legally, you have to provide food for your child but it doesn't have to be what they want. So, I locked up all the snacky food & cereals. She got mad which is really the desired effect. Anyhow, the program is working & I feel in control. No more yelling! Yay!

[maruska]

I really wonder why people like this have children at all ?!? What kind of parent would not comfort a crying 7 year old ?!?

Oh wait...maybe a parent that will tell how "sending my child to program was the hardest thing I ever did" in a couple of years.


 :wall:

[Whooter]

I quess that the right treatment for a self-harmer properly is putting the entire family in prison - younger siblings include, because most stories I have seen speaks of a honeymoon period of 2-3 months. Can we get some input from the parent's perspective - Whooter?

That’s been the consensus here on fornits for years, that they should put the whole family in the program not just the one child.  Why blame the child when it could be a family problem, many would say.  The only problem is typically at least one person needs to continue to work to generate some income.

As far as transitioning back out I have seen the honeymoon effect and also the slingshot effect.  Some kids (like my daughter) come home and want to go back and visit their old friends and life style only to realize that they have outgrown them and are content with their healthier path.  Some other kids come home and are okay for awhile but eventually go back to their old ways.  I think the reason for this is because the triggers and environment conditions which caused the child to become at risk are still there and the root cause was never fully addressed so the problem was never really solved.


...

[Pile of Dead Kids]

I like how you believe Whooter's actually a parent of a surviving child. That's precious, Oscar. Speaking of which, have you asked *your* parents about the Easter Bunny yet?

[Whooter]

I like how you believe Whooter's actually a parent of a surviving child. That's precious, Oscar. Speaking of which, have you asked *your* parents about the Easter Bunny yet?

It must suck to realize that someone from Denmark has a better grasp of the English language than you do.  English is Oscars’ Second language, Pile, and he communicates 10 times better than you do.  Why not try to express yourself a little better instead of criticizing others and their attempts to discuss the issues and learn something new instead of making fun of people.

Try speaking to Oscar in Danish and then judge him.


...

[elanasshole]

Whooter did you ever drag your daughter behind your van while driving?  Vrooom.....  Vrooom.....  Vrooom.....  Daddy please stop dragging me it hurts.  Whooter stops then sends her to an ASPEN program!

[Oscar]

That’s been the consensus here on fornits for years, that they should put the whole family in the program not just the one child.  Why blame the child when it could be a family problem, many would say.  The only problem is typically at least one person needs to continue to work to generate some income.

As far as transitioning back out I have seen the honeymoon effect and also the slingshot effect.  Some kids (like my daughter) come home and want to go back and visit their old friends and life style only to realize that they have outgrown them and are content with their healthier path.  Some other kids come home and are okay for awhile but eventually go back to their old ways.  I think the reason for this is because the triggers and environment conditions which caused the child to become at risk are still there and the root cause was never fully addressed so the problem was never really solved.

...

I have looked on the research we made prior to making the datasheet about this program. I do think that it contains some good elements. The parenting classes and creation of house rules are good. Children need to trust their parents and learn the rules in the house. Often it is the parents themselves who twist their own rules and don't remain firm. Once they do this not a child in this world will take the serious. Even the most polite children. I believe that the troubled youth in such a case is the youth who cannot pretend that the parents have just a little respect left.

I happen to have tracked the postings from this mum so I could read a little about the household before the program was chosen. They are in over their head. They took their niece in properly due to some illness and then they overcompensated her because they were sorry about the situation the niece was in. The niece lost respect and in the process their own children is following the footsteps of their cousin. They are just younger but the parents did not set up boundaries in time and it will be a struggle to get the family unit to function again. However they took a shortcut by taking the children to the prison. It will cost  them because while they were detained the rules were not enforced by the parents but by some strangers. The parents did not earn more respect from the children - only fear.

Now they are home and the children want to test them. The niece is oldest and she cut too deep during the test. That's basically all it was - a test. If they go home and continue to be firm they will reach the goal of a functioning family unit but it is now the program starts. The parents just need to realize that.

As for the slingshot effect it is true. It didn't matter if you placed your daughter in a special high school or on a beach in Africa. Once you separate people they will take paths on their own.

[Oscar]

I like how you believe Whooter's actually a parent of a surviving child. That's precious, Oscar. Speaking of which, have you asked *your* parents about the Easter Bunny yet?

I don't care if what his status is. He writes as he is a parent knowing a lot of the industry so I just want some feedback based on this failure of these parents as a so-claimed parent in the U.S. culture would give it.

As for the easter bunny I was really quick to realize that it is all about getting your hands on candy.

[elanasshole]

Oscar I was going to ask you a question.  You posted an article about people running while drinking beer a couple of days ago.  Is there a race for one legged orphans on crutches in Denmark?

 :jawdrop:

[Whooter]

That’s been the consensus here on fornits for years, that they should put the whole family in the program not just the one child.  Why blame the child when it could be a family problem, many would say.  The only problem is typically at least one person needs to continue to work to generate some income.

As far as transitioning back out I have seen the honeymoon effect and also the slingshot effect.  Some kids (like my daughter) come home and want to go back and visit their old friends and life style only to realize that they have outgrown them and are content with their healthier path.  Some other kids come home and are okay for awhile but eventually go back to their old ways.  I think the reason for this is because the triggers and environment conditions which caused the child to become at risk are still there and the root cause was never fully addressed so the problem was never really solved.

...

I have looked on the research we made prior to making the datasheet about this program. I do think that it contains some good elements. The parenting classes and creation of house rules are good. Children need to trust their parents and learn the rules in the house. Often it is the parents themselves who twist their own rules and don't remain firm. Once they do this not a child in this world will take the serious. Even the most polite children. I believe that the troubled youth in such a case is the youth who cannot pretend that the parents have just a little respect left.

I happen to have tracked the postings from this mum so I could read a little about the household before the program was chosen. They are in over their head. They took their niece in properly due to some illness and then they overcompensated her because they were sorry about the situation the niece was in. The niece lost respect and in the process their own children is following the footsteps of their cousin. They are just younger but the parents did not set up boundaries in time and it will be a struggle to get the family unit to function again. However they took a shortcut by taking the children to the prison. It will cost  them because while they were detained the rules were not enforced by the parents but by some strangers. The parents did not earn more respect from the children - only fear.

Now they are home and the children want to test them. The niece is oldest and she cut too deep during the test. That's basically all it was - a test. If they go home and continue to be firm they will reach the goal of a functioning family unit but it is now the program starts. The parents just need to realize that.

As for the slingshot effect it is true. It didn't matter if you placed your daughter in a special high school or on a beach in Africa. Once you separate people they will take paths on their own.

Very interesting perspective, Oscar.  I agree with you on this.



...