An A.A. meeting is where losers get together to talk

[kirstin]

An A.A. meeting is where losers get together to talk about their winnings:

Among the most often heard utterances at an AA meeting is, “As alcoholics, we are…” This is followed with some negative stereotype such as “angry” or “selfish” or “overly sensitive” or “argumentative”. The list goes on and on and on….

There is no basis in fact for any of these claims, as alcoholics are no more selfish or angry than the general population. These are simply myths created by, and perpetuated by, Alcoholics Anonymous. The ‘Big Book’ and the ‘12×12? are littered with degrading references to alcoholics, as is the vocabulary of any hardcore 12-Stepper. Pick a pejorative, and the chances are good that you will hear it applied to alcoholics as a group.

There are a couple of reasons for this self-degradation. One is that AA was built around the tenets of the Oxford Group, which was built around the Christian belief in original sin. Christianity adheres to the idea that we as people are inherently sinful, and that we can be saved and forgiven through the salvation of Christ. One of the techniques the Oxford Group used to bring people to salvation was the use of confession, which served the purposes of making one aware of their sinful nature, and of breaking the person down so that they could be built back up again. The book Soul Surgery by H.A. Walter was a recruiting instruction manual used by the Oxford Group. In it, Walter wrote:

Through confession we may win his soul—for Christ. Even where there is abundance of natural confidence, our work may be a comparative failure, because we have stopped short of the ultimate confession that is needed in order to complete penitence and victory.

Not only were the steps a re-working of the Oxford Group tenets, but so too were the recruiting tactics. The term “complete honesty” in AA is a euphemism for sin confession, and is actualized in steps 4 and 5. One is not expected to be totally honest, as in ‘I have a short temper, but I also play scratch golf, and I volunteer for local charities’. AA only focuses on a person’s moral failings. This breaks a person down and humbles them. The objective in Christianity is to bring one closer to Christ through confession of, and His forgiveness of, sin. In AA, forgiveness comes from the group itself, and with that comes salvation to the individual.

Love bombing works, and it works well. We all want to be cared for and loved, and there is nothing more attractive than a group who accepts us despite our debased nature. To those whose minds have been pulled so deeply into AA, the thought never occurs to them that the very group who is accepting them despite their character flaws, are the very ones who tore them down and led them to believe that they are losers in the first place.

[Ursus]

Probable source for the above might be the Stinkin' Thinkin' website? At any rate, there are some interesting comments on that post at that link...  

[Anne Bonney]

Probable source for the above might be the Stinkin' Thinkin' website? At any rate, there are some interesting comments on that post at that link...  

Yep...it's a fun read.  :seg:

[Froderik]

Probable source for the above might be the Stinkin' Thinkin' website? At any rate, there are some interesting comments on that post at that link...  

Yep...it's a fun read.  :seg:

:roflmao:  :cheers:  

[Anne Bonney]

Orange's hatemail is even funnier though.  

Thanks for the good laughs, now why don't you get a copy of the big book and study it and find out what AA is really about.

Randy

I have two copies of the Big Book, and one of them is all yellow from my highlighting all of the quotes that I have put in my web pages.

Please tell me, which of my quotes from the Big Book or 12x12 [Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions] is incorrect?

He never answered back...


--- Vern wrote:
> What, are you drunk? I just viewed your web site.
> You should spend all that
> energy on something constructive.
>
> Regards


--- Rev. Allyson K. D. wrote:

Dear Ag,

I felt like I wanted to write to you because the vitrol of your piece against AA is palpable. You seem overly concerned about AA. Did you try to stop drinking or using drugs and relapse, and now like many people I have known in the past 19 years, you turn your self hatred outward to AA and the millions of people who are alive as a result of it? Clearly you have a bone to pick. The other thing I can think that you might be doing is writing for a project in a college Philosophy class, maybe a thesis? Given the scope of your work it appears you are interested in scholarship. Perhaps you might concider the bias you bring to your work as well as the biases of those you write about. This idea is among the many logic tools that a mere freshman would hopefully learn. You sound as if you are young. Is this scenario apt?


His response is too long to post here, but well worth the read http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-letters.html


Greetings-

I stumbled upon your web page and just thought I'd send you a note saying that if you really understood the effectiveness of humbling yourself and realizing that there are characteristics of one's personality that only serve the ego you might understand what the twelve steps are about.


[ 2nd letter from Robert W.: ]

I have no idea why you have such strong opinions about AA. What happened to you?
It does not matter whether your research is correct or not.


Brad H. wrote:
> If you are in recovery I feel bad for the pathetic lack of
> graditude you have for the program that saved your life.  If you
> aren't in recovery the program wasn't written for you in the first
> place, so stay the hell out of it.


--- Sam  wrote:
> Just one question agent orange. If A.A. is such a cult then why the
> fuck does it work so well? You know if you can come up with a way
> that works better than AA  have at it. But if all you can do is
> fire psuedo intellectual bullshit at AA then go ahead and be that
> voice in the wilderness (you & a few dozen others). At last count
> AA has over 3 million people in it and I personally have seen
> bottom feeders turn thier lives around completely thanks to both AA
> and NA. Which I might point out are completely seperate from each
> other. I'd tell you more but I have a meeting to go to. P.S. I'm
> pretty sure all of this is has gone right over your head


— "Pamela D." wrote:
> this is sooooo far from the truth it's sick.  you ever been to an
> aa meeting?  get a grip!  paranoid psycho!





[Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Thomas P. wrote:]

I BET YOU STILL GET DRUNK EVERYTIME YOU RESEARCH AA. YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER BE COMPLETLY HONEST WITH YOURSELF TO OVER COME YOUR PROBLEMS. TRY TO GET HELP AND MAY WHOM EVER YOU BELIEVE IN OR WHATEVER YOU BE IN OPENS YOUR EYES ONE DAY


[Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Bethany wrote:]

Why so much animosity toward AA. Even if it is a cult, how does that hurt you? I only ask because you have obviously put a lot of time and energy into developing this website and it seems like there must be a very strong motivation for such dedication. There are many other groups that have cult like behaviors. Why this one?? I don't mean to belittle you, my curiosity just got the best of me.




 [Sat, May 8, 2004, 2nd letter from Jon M.:]

Like I said, your writing exhibit some significant mental health difficulties. But, there is treatment which will relieve them IF you decide to do anything about them. I certainly wouldn't want to be as miserable as you sound for very long . . . . Carrying around such a huge resentment can't be good for your back.

Good luck.
Jon

[justonemore]

kirstin; read a couple of your posts, and first rate, i would say. I'm sure you get criticized harshly, largely because you posit difficult alternatives to difficult questions.ie; AA is an orthodoxy, posing as, well, whatever it's posing as today, but it seeks public approval.  Ain't it odd. It seeks public approval largely by 'demonizing' others. Ain't it odd?  It seeks federal and state funding, yet it wants desperately to remain 'anonymous' Ain't it odd.
P.S. liked your posts re Catholicism, one of the reasons I'm Catholic is that there i've found folk who are neither sinless, nor bloodless, nor do they pretend otherwise. Was a little puzzled re: your intrepretation of the sacrement of reconciliation ( confession). To me, it ain't just bragging, nor wallowing in guilt, but an absolutely sacremental recognition of our human-ness, both sides, the dark and the light.  comment welcome. tips encouraged.
J.O.M.

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Jeesh,
I am so happy that Ursus, Anne, justonemore, froderick, and kristin (I see you picked up another groupie) can continue to share their broad knowledge of their experiences with AA.
Anne does this as she is slouched over the bow of a boat with a bottle hanging out of her mouth while also trying to stuff a joint in there also, justonemore appears so young and ignorant that you laugh so hard you can't continue reading the bullshit, my friend Ursus has now become a expert on any and all types of recovery programs while explaining to the general mass that his parents and himself had been bullshitted into going to a special school. This school was not intended for folks like himself because Ursus was a great kid with no problems and if he had not had a disagreement of "whatever" with his parents then we probably would not have to hear his nonsense of AA. Froderick justs like to hang around which is cool, my only comments to you is get over the fact you were part of a 12 step program, like your friend Anne. Kristin who gives a shit.

Danny