Author Topic: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies  (Read 887543 times)

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Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1725 on: September 24, 2010, 09:58:36 AM »
In the UK, there's even a magazine, The Chap, dedicating to promoting "a dandified way of life". Extolling the joys of tweed, pipe-smoking, brogues and finely-pressed trousers, the publication holds up celebrities such as Stephen Fry and Joanna Lumley as examples of old-school elan.




http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=n ... KvJleAUFDQ



Friday September 24 2010
Under the swooping sci-fi buttresses of the Aviva Stadium, Ireland's largest ever swingers' club gets under way tonight. Some 45,000 fans will pack the venue to hear crooner Michael Bublé dapperly wend his way through such pre-rock and roll standards as 'Me and Mrs Jones', 'Mack The Knife' and 'How Sweet It Is' (as well as a bow-tie wearing version of, 'er, Justin Timberlake's 'I'm Lovin' It').

He's back for second helpings the following evening, when thousands more will cram the Aviva for the repeat performance. At a time when the biggest new rock bands on the planet -- Oxegen headliners Arcade Fire and Muse, for instance -- could walk down Grafton Street unrecognised, Bublé, a skinny young Canadian with too much gel in his hair, is a proper arena superstar.

Bublé is also single- handedly reversing the trend of declining record sales -- in the face of luke-warm reviews, Bublé's latest album Crazy Love has shifted six million copies. This at a time when Radiohead are reduced to giving their music away for free and sales of U2's most recent opus, No Line On The Horizon, barely scraped past the one million mark. In a retail smack-down Bublé is, in other words, six times as popular as Bono and chums.

What's going on here? Without question Bublé's smoky cocktail-hour warblings are tapping into a wider shift in the culture. Is it any coincidence his ascension to international stardom coincides with the popularity of shows such as Mad Men, in which vintage chic is as much part of the attraction as plot? Or that the squeaky-clean Glee is charming TV viewers across the globe with its pre-rock and roll imaginings of the modern pop songbook?

In the UK, there's even a magazine, The Chap, dedicating to promoting "a dandified way of life". Extolling the joys of tweed, pipe-smoking, brogues and finely-pressed trousers, the publication holds up celebrities such as Stephen Fry and Joanna Lumley as examples of old-school elan.

For his part, Bublé claims nostalgia doesn't come into it. He grew up loving Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald not because they reminded him of some idealised past but because, to a shy kid, their swagger and (non-ironic) charm felt fresh and exciting.

"I was always taken by this style," he said in an interview "Listening to Mel Tormé or Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra as a kid was so great because they had this dulcet tonal quality that I hadn't heard in modern singers."

If there's a secret to his success it is probably that he never worried about fitting in. "When I was 12 (Bublé's grandfather) played me Vic Damone's version of 'It Had to Be You' and I told him that it was great, so he started making me tapes from his old records. For the first time I was hearing Al Martino and the Mills Brothers, and I would be learning 10 of these songs a day by heart because I loved them so much. See, I always had a bad attitude towards conforming and I never wanted to be trendy, so I couldn't give a shit about what everyone at school was into."

You don't need to visit the Aviva to catch wind of this vogue, of course. Soon it's going to be everywhere. "Woman wise, certainly evening dresses . . . the Mad Men look is what's really happening this season," says Chris Lynch of Epoch vintage fashion in Dublin.

Those who are old enough to remember the '50s and '60s first-hand are in little doubt as to why the public is embracing Bublé and all he represents.

After 50 years of noise and anarchy, people are rediscovering the joys of good manners, well made cocktails and a decent side-parting.

'Rock and roll was a terrible thing to happen to music," crooner Tony Bennett told me over the summer. "Before that, you had magnificent musicians like Benny Goodman and great singers like Peggy Lee and Billie Holiday. It was based on real educated musicians.

"I sell more records than anyone else on my label, Columbia. Because the whole family is buying them. The corporations had this thing with demographics. They made all the records for the young. Which I thought was a mistake. When I started as a young performer, you played to the whole family."

Aspiring Don Drapers should take note, however. In the fashion realm, at least, this trend is, for now, a ladies-only affair. Short of cheating on your stay at home wife or enjoying a five-Martini lunch, the closest most Irish guys are likely to get to a swinging Rat Pack existence is singing along to Michael Bublé tonight.

"For the men it's very hard because in the pre-rock era everybody basically wore suits," says Chris Lynch. "Even going out at night, I don't think men are really into that nowadays." Michael Buble plays the Aviva, Dublin, tonight and tomorrow
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1726 on: September 24, 2010, 08:29:59 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyTY_oY ... re=related
 :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :jamin:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #1727 on: September 24, 2010, 08:43:11 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 01:47:25 PM by Joel »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1728 on: September 24, 2010, 08:51:15 PM »
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... g-jBxybnAA




This is a  staff list for Elan School in Poland, ME


(we are working to acquire the complete records for ALL years)
 
We advise current and/or former staff to report any abuses you may have witnessed while working at Elan School.  For information on your rights and how to take action, visit http://www.heal-online.org/blowthewhistle.htm.  If you were fired or forced to resign because you opposed any illegal and/or unethical practices at Elan School, you have the right to take action.
 
If you were harmed (family or survivor) by Elan School, please contact info@heal-online.org if you remember the long-term employees and from which years.  This will help!   Also, if you recognize any of these staff as having worked at another program, please send in any information about their past or present employment at other facilities and/or cults.
 
 
Please don’t place your loved one in Elan School and rescue them if they are there now.
 
Name
Unit/Position
Additional Information
Martin L. Kruglik    Senior Program Director    Kruglik has been with Elan since 1972.
Clare Woodman    Senior Program Director    Woodman has been with Elan since 1984.
Jeffrey Gottlieb    Staff    Has "worked" for Elan since he graduated the program in 1972.  (CULT)
Joseph Ricci    Founder of Elan Cult     
Gerald E. Davidson    Co-Founder of Elan Cult     
Peter Rowe    Staff    Graduate of Assumption College--Catholic College founded by the Augustinian Sect.  St. Augustine was big on torture and used/supported/endorsed torture to "convert" thousands of "heretics".
Melissa Esty    Residential Director    Esty has been with Elan since 1991.
Kathleen Sherberne    Residential Director    Sherberne has been with Elan since 1993.
Adam Asselin    Staff    Asselin has been with Elan since 2005.
Deanna Raihl    Staff    Has "worked" for Elan since he graduated the program in 1998. (CULT)
Nick Pitarys    Staff/Case Management    Pitarys has been with Elan since 2009.
Peter McCann    Director (former)    Reported by survivor who attended program in 1976.
Ken Zaretsky    Assistant Director (former)    Reported by survivor who attended program in 1976.
Danny Bennison    Assistant Director (timeframe ?)    Reported by survivor who attended program in 1976.  Bennison reportedly claims to have held the title of Assistant Director on the online message board known as fornits.
Mark Rosenburg    Staff (1996-1999)    Reportedly an Elan "graduate" who became a top staffer for the program.
NO OTHER NAMES    NO OTHER TITLES    Please contact us with information on staff and their histories.*
          Elan School is "proudly" affiliated with NATSAP.
(Elan School, like many other programs in this industry, keeps a "tight lid" on any specific information regarding their staff, qualifications, and practices.  Please contact us with the names of any staff of which you have firsthand knowledge or experience.  Thank you for your help.)

Survivor Declaration--Sharon Wittwer (1984-1986)

Survivor Website--http://theelanschool.tumblr.com/

Survivor Declaration--Nick Schwamb (2007-2009)

Survivor Declaration--Jessica Charnov (2004-2007)
 
Excerpt from: "Duck in a Raincoat" by Maura Curley:
 
Chapter Five

 
In Their Own Words...
 
"Despite requests to Joe Ricci and his lawyers for Elan success stories to be included in this book, none were furnished...
 

Former residents and staff members consequently were tracked down through newspaper advertisements and by word of mouth.  Conversations with nearly two dozen people who were at Elan at different intervals between the years 1971-1988 reveal striking similarities, though these people come from five different states, and varied economic and social circumstance. In most cases they have not talked to each other since leaving the program. All contacted were willing to discuss their experiences, though some did not want their names used for fear of reprisal.
 
Stephen Smith now 29 was 15 years old when he was sent to Elan by a social worker in Connecticut. He had been a ward of that state since the age of six  when his father signed over custody of Stephen and his sisters  after their mother had been sent to prison for robbery.
 
At fifteen he was sensitive and withdrawn,  read books all the time, and hated school because the other kids seemed childish, and had  perfect families. He explains that the circumstance that led to his going to Elan involved an altercation with a neighbor whom he "shot in the butt" with a bb. gun after the neighbor kicked his dog.  Stephen says his social worker gave him the choice of either going to jail or Elan. "I chose Elan  because she told me it was like a summer camp in the Maine woods, " he recalled with irony from the warden's office of Maine State Prison where he was  serving a ten year term for burglary.

 
Stephen is  boyish looking, small boned with honey blond hair pulled back in a  ponytail. His eyes portray a sadness, which his  story supports. The images from his teen years are still alive for him, enough for his voice to crack when he talks about being raped by another  Elan resident when he and three other boys and two girls  were left in a semi isolation room for a period of more than  a week. He is articulate and  candid about his life before, during and since his years at Poland Spring and  Parsonfield. "I don't care how personal you get," he says. "The most important thing is that the truth comes out about Ricci. He has no business screwing up kids, and making a fortune doing it. The state takes kids from messed up families, but they put them in places worse. If I was not messed up before I got to Elan, I certainly was afterwards..."  

 
He says: "When I first got there, I couldn't believe it. Everybody was  screaming and beating on each other.  I had to sit in these groups, and I didn't want to  talk to anybody. I feel that I was misdiagnosed. For one thing I didn't have a drug problem. Most of the kids that were in there were I guess  there for drugs because  I'd be sitting in the groups and they'd want me to talk about what drugs I was doing', what I was hooked on. And I said, 'listen I don't have any of that,' and they'd all say 'Oh yeah? sure !' as If I was denying it. Then they'd ask me if I hated my mother. They'd take out my file and read in front of everyone in the group, things about my mother and  her criminal record.  I didn't dig that, so I just didn't say anything. And then when I shut up,  they accused me of intimidating the group, said I was doing some violent act against the group members for not opening up. I was making people hostile at me. So everyone once in a while they'd set up a general meeting, and then throw me in the boxing ring until I lost. So I just used to try to run away all the time. Its the only thing I ever did; try to run away every chance I got. I tried about seven times, but they always caught me because they had this posse that would go out. If they caught someone they'd be rewarded by Ricci..."

 
"The first time I met Joe Ricci..." he continues, his voice getting softer, and more serious, "...was at a general meeting that was called by a guy named Jeff Gottlieb. I had tried to run away again, and Joe Ricci came in.  I'll never forget it, because he made me feel really worthless, you know  like I was an absolute nothing. He came in and I was called up along with a girl named Nancy, and another girl named Marie,  two guys named Ray, and  Johnny, and another kid named Sean.  So when  Joe Ricci came in to the house we were all sitting down around a table, and he announced:  'We have some cancer in this house,  and  any good surgeon knows the best way to get rid of cancer is to cut it out, before it spreads.' Then he called all of us up in front of the house, and asked everybody else if they had any feelings for us, so we all got screamed at. Then they put us in the boxing ring you know. Then at the end of the meeting Joe Ricci says ' Now  we're gonna put you upstairs in one of the rooms. It was a room about the size of this. (6x10) and they boarded up the windows, and boarded up the door and locked it. And he said 'Whatever goes on in there goes on.'  It was in July...I know it was in July, because it was my 16th birthday the next day... It was horrible. Six of us all  stuck in there together. The guys- Ray and Johnny would take turns beating each other. Ray would pound his head until he got tired. And they'd take turns having sex with the two girls. One of them didn't care, but the other girl  didn't want to, but they made her. Sean and Ray would keep her food, and that's how they got to her. The day I turned 16 I was sitting in the corner and I mentioned that it was my birthday, and Sean picked me up and said 'Oh it's you're birthday, I have something to give you...' He started to hit me in the face and stuff, and then, well he raped me in there," he  says, his voice trembling.

 
"After Sean did that stuff with me, he made me do it with the others..." Stephen continued, taking a breath and observing: "Between that time, and one other time  I think it had a lot to do with me not having  normal relationships with  girls. It's really screwed me up, and during the past years I've gone from blaming my mother, or my social worker Mrs. Daley, for what happened to me at Elan. But I realize  it was really Joe Ricci's fault.  He didn't care what happened  to us in the room, or anywhere else. He was just in it for the money, and he didn't care about kids. He was running a business  and that's all it was."

Other punishments Stephen detailed included  cleaning toilets with bare hands, wearing signs, and doing meaningless chores just  to be taught a lesson: "I'd have to  push this wheelbarrow down to the lake in the summer, about a mile while wearing a winter coat," he says.  " And I'd have to get rocks out of the water, and fill up the wheelbarrow, and bring it back up again, then empty them out, and then fill the wheelbarrow up , and go back down to the water.  Other times I'd dig ditches and fill them up again. The whole time they'd be one or two people watching, and hollering  to hurry up. It was totally meaningless...and this was all just because I wouldn't talk in groups, or I'd try to run away...Sometimes I'd get a cowboy ass kick too,"  he recalled.  "One time Joe Ricci was there and he said he was sick of my shit, trying to run away and stuff. I tried to talk to some people who came up from Chicago to do some kind of investigation, and I think that's what he was all pissed off at. I never talked to them though.  Anyhow I got a cowboy ass kick then. That was when they took you and  threw you from room to room bouncing you up against the walls. All the residents would  drag you around digging you with their  hands,  punching you , and spitting  in your face. It was a lot worse than the ring.  It was really vicious."
 
Stephen  doesn't hesitate to compare Elan with the maximum security prison where he was incarcerated.  "Elan's much much worse...Here there's a lot of shit. But I get a chance for some solitude, to read, and I'm going to college. I 've also gotten to learn woodworking, and make some money in the prison store. At Elan, there was nothing positive, it was pure hell,"  he concluded. "You know the worst thing is the judge that sentenced me here (for 10 years ) lectured to  me saying I blew the opportunity I had at Elan...I don't understand how the courts  can legitimize a guy like Ricci who has harmed so many mixed up kids."

 
 Last Updated: September 23rd, 2010
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1729 on: September 24, 2010, 09:04:46 PM »
Quote from: "Joel"
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
Marky.. This is your mess.. Your reality
You lied,you got caught
You can put this on me,and lie all you like .. but at the end of the day
You are guily of a number of crimes
I intend to help the community with that problem
Anyone who could even THINK (let alone write) of some of the things you post should be locked up in an assylum as well
You have no honor,and certainly no class.. but thats a whole other thing

"Joel " You should know I am not the guy to start your parade of bull-shit with, nor do want to start baiting Art,You could turn up with a good old Elan Style Cow-Boys Ass Kicking by two pro's, Not physical of-course, nor is any type of threat, But you have way too much to talk about with out involving the two of us in your web life here, trust me!!, Have a great night, :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SharonMcCarthy

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1730 on: September 24, 2010, 09:10:20 PM »
Mark I have got to tell you how thankful I am you were able to spend the day with me and Mason in Chicago. Thank you so much for bringing the cornbeef and rye bread...We had such a nice time watching Mason with his therapist at the park, and how about that weather..Just lovely.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle."
Kahlil Gibran

Offline SharonMcCarthy

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1731 on: September 24, 2010, 09:20:10 PM »
Quote from: "mark babitz"
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
Marky.. This is your mess.. Your reality
You lied,you got caught
You can put this on me,and lie all you like .. but at the end of the day
You are guily of a number of crimes
I intend to help the community with that problem
Anyone who could even THINK (let alone write) of some of the things you post should be locked up in an assylum as well
You have no honor,and certainly no class.. but thats a whole other thing



Why are you so hateful, and mad Farty,?? Looose Again


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
:roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :blabla:  :blabla:  :blabla:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle."
Kahlil Gibran

Offline SharonMcCarthy

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1732 on: September 24, 2010, 09:21:32 PM »
You seriously need to let me drive your car too...lol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle."
Kahlil Gibran

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1733 on: September 24, 2010, 09:32:23 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1734 on: September 24, 2010, 09:36:08 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1735 on: September 24, 2010, 09:40:09 PM »
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... E-QZ9IXBcQ




Boycott The Elan School, :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1736 on: September 25, 2010, 07:47:08 AM »
Quote from: "SharonMcCarthy"
Mark I have got to tell you how thankful I am you were able to spend the day with me and Mason in Chicago. Thank you so much for bringing the cornbeef and rye bread...We had such a nice time watching Mason with his therapist at the park, and how about that weather..Just lovely.


I had a great time seeing you and Mason too, His therapist was good therapy for me too, she was Hot, LOL, But in all seriousness, I am glad to see Mason smiling and coming along so well and rapidly,I just know things will come back together for you,and the Boy's. Again I had a great time Sharon and will see you next week. :cheers:  :cheers:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :peace:


P.S. You can drive my car anytime you want. :peace:  :peace:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1737 on: September 25, 2010, 09:10:58 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mark babitz

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1738 on: September 26, 2010, 09:05:38 PM »
Peter J. McCann

SHERMAN OAKS, Calif. - Peter Joseph McCann, 56, died of complications from diabetic neuropathy at his home on Sunday, Nov. 20, 2005.

Peter was born in Roxbury, Mass., to Walter Vincent and Helen (Bradford Kenyon), the fifth of nine children.

He married Patricia Metivier, of Kittery, Maine, in April 1974 and resided for several years in Naples and Falmouth, Maine.

Peter worked for many years as a therapist with troubled youth and coached the football team at the Elan School in Poland Spring, Maine. The McCanns later moved to Portsmouth, N.H., where Peter often said that he felt the most at home, and where the family lived for 10 years. Peter retired early due to illness, and Patricia’s career moved the couple to Texas in 1999, then California in 2003.

In addition to his wife and mother, Peter is survived by his three daughters, Kelly of Houston, Jessica of Chapel Hill, N.C., and Valerie of Los Angeles; four brothers, William of Duxbury, Mass., John of Plymouth, Mass., James of Casco, Maine, and David of Brockton, Mass.; a sister, Sheila of Boston. He was predeceased by his father, sister Betsy and brothers Richard and Walter. He is also survived by the Metiviers of South Berwick, Maine, and his best friend Jeffrey Gottlieb of Windham, Maine.

WE REMEMBER: He enjoyed traveling with his family and friends, especially to Hawaii. Peter was a history buff, always had a good joke ready, and loved his loyal dog, Brutus.

SERVICES: Visiting hours will be from 6-8 p.m. on Monday at the J. Verne Wood Funeral Home - Buckminster Chapel, 84 Broad St., Portsmouth. A Mass of Christian Burial will be celebrated at 10 a.m., Tuesday at St. James Church. Lafayette Road, Portsmouth. In lieu of flowers, donations in Peter’s memory can be made to: Guide Dogs of America, 13445 Glenoaks Blvd., Sylmar, Calif. 91342.



Peter Mc Cann Rest In Hell
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Elan discussion from New Forum Policies
« Reply #1739 on: September 26, 2010, 11:19:04 PM »
Quote from: "mark babitz"
Peter J. McCann

SHERMAN OAKS, Calif. - Peter Joseph McCann, 56, died of complications from diabetic neuropathy at his home on Sunday, Nov. 20, 2005.

Peter was born in Roxbury, Mass., to Walter Vincent and Helen (Bradford Kenyon), the fifth of nine children.

He married Patricia Metivier, of Kittery, Maine, in April 1974 and resided for several years in Naples and Falmouth, Maine.

Peter worked for many years as a therapist with troubled youth and coached the football team at the Elan School in Poland Spring, Maine. The McCanns later moved to Portsmouth, N.H., where Peter often said that he felt the most at home, and where the family lived for 10 years. Peter retired early due to illness, and Patricia’s career moved the couple to Texas in 1999, then California in 2003.

In addition to his wife and mother, Peter is survived by his three daughters, Kelly of Houston, Jessica of Chapel Hill, N.C., and Valerie of Los Angeles; four brothers, William of Duxbury, Mass., John of Plymouth, Mass., James of Casco, Maine, and David of Brockton, Mass.; a sister, Sheila of Boston. He was predeceased by his father, sister Betsy and brothers Richard and Walter. He is also survived by the Metiviers of South Berwick, Maine, and his best friend Jeffrey Gottlieb of Windham, Maine.

WE REMEMBER: He enjoyed traveling with his family and friends, especially to Hawaii. Peter was a history buff, always had a good joke ready, and loved his loyal dog, Brutus.

SERVICES: Visiting hours will be from 6-8 p.m. on Monday at the J. Verne Wood Funeral Home - Buckminster Chapel, 84 Broad St., Portsmouth. A Mass of Christian Burial will be celebrated at 10 a.m., Tuesday at St. James Church. Lafayette Road, Portsmouth. In lieu of flowers, donations in Peter’s memory can be made to: Guide Dogs of America, 13445 Glenoaks Blvd., Sylmar, Calif. 91342.



Peter Mc Cann Rest In Hell

Mark, he left when others stayed. I worked with his brother James, stayed in touch with James for a while. James was very instrumental in talking Peter into quitting. Yes Peter was out of control professionally and personally while working at Elan. I will say this though in his defense he realized what he was doing and had done at Elan was wrong and moved on. He began to be a better father and husband after he left.
Just saying. I am not trying to minimize your experiences with Peter, mine were not that great either while at Elan.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.