Corporal punishment returning to schools?

[Oscar]

Glynn school board to consider bringing back corporal punishment, Florida Times-Union, December 13, 2009

[Ursus]

The Florida Times-Union
Glynn school board to consider bringing back corporal punishment
Some want corporal punishment to come back to Glynn schools.

By Teresa Stepzinski
Story updated at 11:49 AM on Sunday, Dec. 13, 2009

BRUNSWICK - When the Glynn County school board's Safety and Discipline Committee meets Tuesday to discuss issuing Tasers to school police officers, it will also consider reinstating a form of discipline that could be even more controversial: corporal punishment.

Board member and committee chairman John Madala believes paddling is an effective tool needed to enforce student discipline. He placed the issue on the committee's Tuesday agenda.

Corporal punishment has not been used in Glynn schools in more than four years. The school board voted unanimously July 12, 2005, to remove it as a student discipline option.

At the time, school systems nationwide were banning paddling amid concern about potential lawsuits from parents and questions about its effectiveness in improving student behavior.

Madala, whose wife is a teacher, advocates bringing paddling back in at least the elementary and middle schools where its use potentially will be most effective.

"We've got to equip the teachers with the tools they need to maintain structure and control in their classrooms," he said. "Corporal punishment would be another tool in the box to control unruly students."

Unless unruly students are brought under control, they will continue to disrupt the classroom, resulting in the other pupils missing out on educationalopportunities, he said.

teresa.stepzinski@jacksonville. com, (912) 264-0405


© Copyright The Florida Times-Union. All Rights Reserved.

[Anonymous]

Glynn school board to consider bringing back corporal punishment, Florida Times-Union, December 13, 2009

If children don't want to get paddled, they should not act like jerk offs.  Kids scream abuse whenever they are disciplined in public schools.

[Ursus]

Comments for the above article, "Glynn school board to consider bringing back corporal punishment" (The Florida Times-Union; by Teresa Stepzinski; Dec. 13, 2009):


Paddling at school??
Submitted by Penbos on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 7:26 am

Won't do a swat of good unless there is paddling at home.

Teachers only have the students for six hours or so. Parents/guardians must

instill discipline.

Don't reinstate paddling!
Submitted by nblock on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 8:43 am

It would be a huge step backwards for the Glynn school board to reinstate paddling. It is a practice that has been banned in 30 states and over 100 countries.  It can lead to injuries of students, lawsuits against school  boards and is ineffective in changing  behavior over the long term. Board members who advocate its use should be required to show that it is an evidence-based practice.  They cannot do so.

Teachers in 30 states are educating students without beating them with boards, some going back to Abe Lincoln's time (NJ 1867).   Glynn teachers can do likewise.

A retired educator

Paddling?
Submitted by hank23 on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 8:48 am

I say use pepper spray and tasers on the little monsters.

Paddling, yes!!
Submitted by suze on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 9:04 am

nblock has apparently not spent a lot of time in schools these days. Students run wild because they know that the teachers can't do anything to them. Suspending them only sends them on a mini vacation, to sit home and watch tv or play video games.

Duval County are you guys listening?? You might want to consider this as well.

Not a good idea
Submitted by whozitsdad on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 9:51 am

@Penbos:  good point.  If any child at home is not disciplined by their parents, what do they expect at school?  You can discipline the child for misbehaving or disrupting class, but you have to include the parents or .... it's ineffective.

@Suze: My wife has been teaching 17 years at our local HS. Problem kids are weeded out into the various learing centers and boot camp for discipline.  You can't use the same method of discipline on a nine year old as you would on a 16 year old.  Comes right back around to what the parents do at home, and how much they are involved with their child's education.  Some of my wife's students who are a problem;  the parents do not give a rats *** - it's always the teachers fault, "My Billy would never do that." blah blah blah.  Plus, knowing most of the teachers at her school and our sons school - I wouldn't trust half of them making that decision.  It would have to come down to the administration to decide.  Also, disruption of class comes in several flavors.  Is it malicious behavior or a LD?  Our son is pretty ADHD - 504 plan and fortunately an IEP plan soon.  His disruption of class is never abusive (it is a distraction for other students) but we have worked with the teachers to implement proper redirection RATHER than disciplining the child.  Mind you, we deal with teachers who have no clue what a 504 or IEP is and honestly, they don't give a ****.  I'm for discipline, but physical discipline should be left to the parents.  Been there, received it in elementary myself - ****** me off.  Not only did the principal give it to me; boy I got it 10x harder from my dad.  It was my parents role and our role as parents that kept us on the straight and narrow.

Just my rant for the day.

Sounds good to me. PADDLE their little butts..
Submitted by holysmokes on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 10:52 am

When I was in school,  many,  many decades ago,   I was not a good boy.

At least not at first....

Back then,  when we misbehaved,  we were walked out into the hall,  and were paddled (3 swats) right then and there.

With our butts still hurting,  we were then marched right back into class,   sat down,  and the class resumed.

No big deal.   We were paddled in Elementary,  and Junior High.   Hardly any paddling was done in High School.

Paddling was a great thing.

How hard you were swatted,  and how many swats we received,  were dependent on how "disruptive" we had become.

I remember that in Junior High,   the teachers often made a new paddle each year,  and they had the students in the WOODSHOP class make the paddles for them.

Complete with decoration.

Mr Greene,  the History teacher,  always had his paddles made "short and skinny",   where as,  Mrs Roby,  the Science teacher,  had her paddles made "long and wide."

The Dean of Boys,  on the other hand,  used a very wide,  and thick paddle,  that also had 1/2 inch round holes in it.  

Those holes made a BIG difference.

After 5 swats with the Dean's paddle,   you had a bunch of 1/2 inch "bumps" on your butt,  that kept hurting for half an hour.

As a boy,   getting paddled was no big deal,  and at times,  was a good "status" thing.   It told the other boys that you were "tough",  and not to mess with you.

Only if you were really bad,  did you go to the Dean for swats.   And it was a rare student who EVER was sent back to the Dean for a second time.

I remember several times hearing boys beg their teacher to swat them,  rather than send them to the Dean.

I was sent to the Dean only once.

Once was quite sufficient to change my Attitude for the rest of the school year.

I have often thought that it was a big mistake to stop paddling boys in elementary and junior high schools.

Doing so has made it very hard to keep boys under control at the high school level.

nblock, I agree with you
Submitted by motomik345 on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 10:53 am

Hitting a student with a piece of wood could cause serious injury. I recommend a thick Belt!

Parents need to quite
Submitted by takerespon on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 10:58 am

Parents need to quite defending their little darlings and stop trying to be their best friend. If corporal punishment is to be enacted, the parent should be doing so. When in was in school I didn't necessarily fear reprecussion at school when I acted out, I feared the discipline I deserved when I got home.

Parents need to quite
Submitted by takerespon on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 10:58 am

Parents need to quite defending their little darlings and stop trying to be their best friend. If corporal punishment is to be enacted, the parent should be doing so. When in was in school I didn't necessarily fear reprecussion at school when I acted out, I feared the discipline I deserved when I got home.

Missing the Point Again???
Submitted by jack freeley on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 11:13 am

There is an old maxim; violence begets violence. The students who would most be a target for corporal punishment generally already see, or are themselves victimized by, violence. Spanking merely reinforces the use of violence as a legitimate way to handle problems that arise in life. Teaching alternative means for handling disputes is a part of the educational process. Those of you who think you're a better person because you were beat as children are proof that until you break the circle of violence it will be passed on from generation to generation. Also, whenever punishment of this severity is doled out in anger, it is totally ineffective and morally reprehensible. If a teacher were allowed to take a misbehaving child and immediately spank that child as one writer mentioned above, it would be just plain foolish. Once again I stress that education is a complicated and complex affair in the 21st Century and teachers need to be well trained in educating as well as classroom management, social work, and a myriad of other necessary skills. You are getting what you are paying for. Teaching in public schools today is difficult and simplistic solutions such as tasers and corporal punishment solve little and whenever a debate about education is dominated by these types of solutions, you can bet we are a long way from real progress. We are instead in desperation mode.

Wrong Jack...my brother and
Submitted by takerespon on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 12:04 pm

Wrong Jack...my brother and I were both spanked when we were children. He and I are probably the least violent people in the world. The majority of the time were not spanked in the heat of the moment. The theory that spanking teaches a child to be violent is not so. I do  not believe spanking should always be the first and foremost method of disciplining but some very strong willed children need it for certain times and circumstances.

Hitting SCHOOL children with WOODEN PADDLES and use of TASERS
Submitted by KidsRpeople2 on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 1:22 pm

KidsRpeople2

Florida is one of the 20 remaining states that legally allows school employees to hit children with wooden paddles to punish them, also known as Corporal (Physical) Punishment. Corporal Punishment of children in schools is illegal in 30 states.A recent news headline reads, "Nearly 60,000 spankings in Miss. schools last year." "Ouch! For the second time in a month, a school district in Leflore County has been hit with a $500,000 (each) lawsuit from a student alleging injuries from a paddling. It was reported that a state legal adviser, who told Bristol, Tennessee Director of Schools Gary Lilly that while school principals who paddled students were legally protected from allegations of assault, they were not immune from accusations of inappropriate or improper touching.

People with SPANKING FETISHES work in occupations that give them access to children like hospitals, schools, boy scouts, etc. which is why PHYSICAL/CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS MUST BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!

December 9, 2009, Congressman George Miller, Chairman of the House Education Committee is introducing legislation to prevent use of harmful restraints and seclusions of children in schools (which have led to children's deaths) but the proposed legislation neglects to ban Physical/Corporal Punishment of Children in Schools, which is where school employees hit children with wooden paddles, often resulting in deep bruising injuries and stress from fear, etc.,

Parent of 3 children attending schools in an UNRESPONSIVE Paddling School District where middle school teachers keep wooden paddles in their desk drawers and take them out to threaten students with physical pain for minor infractions such as not turning in homework. Students are taken by teachers into hallways just oustide classrooms within earshot of classmates and told to "Bend over and grab your ankles" while the teacher holds their pants belt loop and hits them with a wooden paddle, then the battered student immediately faces classmates with red and tear-stained face (humiliation) when they return to their seat. No parental consent or notification is required per Tennessee State Law. My husband and I are strongly OPPOSED to our children's learning environment including fear, anxiety, dread and humiliation caused by witnessing/overhearing PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN IN SCHOOL!!

School boards are asking for trouble to sanction a practice that is intended to inflict pain.

Our nation's most prominent and trusted National Children’s Health and Education Organizations have issued official position statements OPPOSING Physical/Corporal Punishment of Children in SCHOOLS including The American Medical Assn (AMA), American Academy of Pediatricians, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Bar Assn, American Humane Assn, American Psychiatric Assn, American Psychological Assn, American Public Health Assn, National Parent Teacher Assn (PTA, National Mental Health Assn and Prevent Child Abuse America among others. Please demand your Governor/Representatives in Congress introduce/support legislation to Abolish Corporal Punishment of Children in ALL SCHOOLS, the cost is $0.

Don't You "Wrong Jack" Me....
Submitted by jack freeley on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 2:38 pm

Why I ought to...... Behind every act of road rage or fight or other human interaction that is attempted to be settled violently, there is likely a history of violence with no history of how to manage anger or frustration. You cannot judge the world solely by how you turned out. I'm a teacher, my wife is a teacher, and our daughter is a teacher. We do know a thing or two of what we speak.

What a Terrible Idea
Submitted by georgia mom on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 5:31 pm

You mean to tell me that the school board can't come up with something a little more modern? Wow! I live in a district that does not paddle, and they handle misbehavior just fine. Maybe they need to consult with innovative school districts taht do not hit children to solve the behavior problems or check out information on positive behavior supports.

Yeah Jack I am a teacher
Submitted by takerespon on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 5:49 pm

Yeah Jack I am a teacher too. So what's your point? Your post implied that all people who are spanked turn out to be violent. Simply NOT true! Personally, I don't see the point in corporal punishment in schools. It's totally ineffective. But if a parent chooses to do so that's their perogative and it doesn't mean they are going to produce Ted Bundy.

I am a parent and I am
Submitted by georgia mom on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 6:40 pm

I am a parent and I am simply appalled at those who say they are teachers who support corporal punishment.  There are no peer reviewed studies that say it is effective but a mountain of peer reviewed studies that show a tremendous propensity for long term problems in many children.

Georgia mom you shouldn't be
Submitted by takerespon on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 8:04 pm

Georgia mom you shouldn't be applalled that teachers believe in spanking because it pretty much ceases to exist in most schools today. However, I can guarantee you that at least 50% or more of all parents still spank. Perhaps, based on the selective "reviews" you have chosen to read ,you should be afraid of them.

Also, today most school districts just send little Johnny home with out of school suspension so he can have a nice vacation. Wow, how innovative and what a derrent!.Also, today most school districts just send little Johnny home with out of school suspension so he can have a nice vacation. Wow, how innovative and what a derrent!.

To takerespon - you stated
Submitted by georgia mom on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 9:58 pm

To takerespon - you stated you are a teacher - which peer -reviewed  best practice study says it is effective? Which one? By all means name one if you can. Which college of education for teachers teaches this?  -  NONE!  There is not one college of education for student teachers that teach this.

And look up PBIS.

If this policy is put in
Submitted by georgia mom on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 10:06 pm

If this policy is put in place how will the school board make sure no lawsuits are placed on it for injuries? Or wrongly paddling a child with a health concern or disability.

KidsRpeople2 Schools are
Submitted by KidsRpeople2 on Sun. 12/13/2009 at 11:02 pm

KidsRpeople2

Schools are supposed to be safe places for children to learn, they are NOT juvenile detention centers for convicted criminals, which are PROHIBITED BY LAW from using Physical/Corporal Punishment on Children in our Country!  It is OUTRAGEOUS that U.S. Education Officials leave the very important matter of children's safety and discipline practices to local school boards and that school employees are not trained in more effective, non-violent discipline methods where children are taught why what they did was wrong and given the tools to make better choices in the future.  Schools nationwide must take a "Hands Off" approach dealing with children and teach self-control calmly through mutual respect, which must be earned not beaten into children.  Should any of my children return home from school with bruises from being hit with a wooden paddle without my knowledge or consent, by a school employee or worse, having been tasered, I would immediately seek legal counsel, as it is assault, not to mention a violation of personal liberty to be free from physical, psychological and emotional pain and suffering.  School employees must be held accountable for assault as would any other individual who took a wooden paddle to their spouse, neighbor or their neighbor's dog.  School boards and communities better be thinking of how much they are willing to pay for the liability of inflicting pain onto the children entrusted to them for care and education.  Violence begets violence and progressive school boards operate efficiently everyday without hitting children or tasering them.  It is ILLEGAL in 30 states for school employees to hit a child with a wooden paddle!  If school boards/employees need "discipline" principles, a good place to start would be National Geographic Channel's "The Dog Whisperer" who advocates calm self-control of the individual in charge as the first precept, animals and children respond to your energy.  We have always taught our 3 children that "No One Has the Right to Touch Them" to protect them from sexual abuse.  School employees are having inappropriate sexual relations with our nation's school children in shocking numbers, over 2,500 teachers were punished in a 5 year period since 2000 for inappropriate sexual conduct with children and women are committing these crimes in increasing numbers.  Communication with parents is key, they are schools greatest allies and want to help their children succeed.  Remember the "Golden Rule" treat others the way you want to be treated, Hands Off!

© Copyright The Florida Times-Union. All Rights Reserved.

[Anonymous]

I remeber getting"swats" (a nicer term for getting beaten) in public school.
There was one kid who flinched during the dean of boys swing, and caught the "board of education" in the lower back, and had to be taken to the hospital. Today that would have resulted in law suits, and criminal charges. And rightly so.
I don't understand the thinking behind wanting to open up the schools to the abuse and liability. we seem to be moving backwards.

"IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT.........."

[Whooter]

Corporal Punishment okay ?
Yes..........     (6)  46%
No...........   (4)    31%
Neutral......   (2)   15%
Sarcastic ...   (1)   8%
Total........     13