Bisexual Fornits admin supports abusing and medicating kids

[Anonymous]

How exactly is a 13 year old going to make an informed decision? First of all, drug companies and doctors are never completely forthcoming with the details, nor do parents or their kids tend to pry about it because they trust their doctors...as most people do unfortunately. half the time the doctors themselves...and sometimes the companies too.. dont even know everything in the first place.
Second, even if the kid was informed, i dont think many 13 year olds can grasp the consequences of drug use and/or dependance, medically sanctioned or not. They go on what their friends, family, and authority figures tell them to make their decisions. they have no perspective. case in point: when i was 13, i started smoking cigarettes. I thought it was "cool" (doesnt everybody?), and i secretly waited for the day i can talk to my freinds about how badly i'm craving a bogie whenever....i was anticipating addiction with gleefully open arms. i thought it was cool to be an addict. i thought that stopping was going to be easy. It wasnt easy...fifteen years later i'm still puffin away a pack a day.

So choose to quit if you find it undesirable.  Here we get into the disease concept argument and fuzzy stuff about free will.

That sounds ridiculous to you and me now, but thats how many 13 year olds think. they dont think about the long term consequences.....you only start considering those things as your reaching your 20's. so even if the kid is told "you will be horribly dependent on it and it will make you weak-willed" they probably wont give a fuck as long as you tell them it will make them feel good. Legally, any contract entered by a minor can be easily voided. this is because, among other reasons, minors are very easily coerced and do not have the knowledge or experience to make certain decisions for themselves. kids that age dont have the experience to know the tolls that chemical dependancies can take on people. It wasn't until i was 16/17 and started encountering people who were facing serious personal or otherwise consequences as a result of substances, that i truly began to understand the dangers of chemical dependencies. Hence why cigarets are illegal for under 18's, and that's also the logic behind why parents/guardians are legally allowed to force treatment - chemical or otherwise.

Glad you realize that.  In order for one freedom to exist, the other must as well, like I said.  I believe letting 13 year olds choose to medicate if they wish (and their parents are willing to pay) is the lesser of two evils.

yeah it is fuzzy stuff about free will. Not saying it's impossible, but quitting nicotine is hard as hell. tried cutting down, using gum, using the patch, zyban, wellbutrin, chantix....everything. they all have major side effects, nothing works, my cravings are ridiculous. my #1 wish right now is to quit nicotine.
i do agree with you though about the subjectivity of addiction. I was once an "addict" myself - to opiates, abeit for a fairly short time (6 months). for that, i just lay in bed for a week smoking pot and i was over it.  I was once a "weed addict" (if there truly is a such thing) too; all i had to do to stop smoking so much is just find some other activities to distract me. every drug is different, every drug addicts people in different ways. the one-size-fits-all mentality of AA and other treatment programs is very skewed. there is a whole range of different types of addictions and dependancies.
Nicotine is a whole other monster.  

also, i doubt a teenager has the patience to sit there and weigh out his pills slicing off little bits every week to taper down. plus, SSRI's make people complacent.........complacent to keep taking them. Human beings have free will, but not everyone knows how to utilize their own free will to it's fullest extent, especially not people in their early teens. the 13 year old may choose to stop......but will he stop? and i'm not saying that he's addicted per se, just saying it may simply be more convenient for him to keep taking the meds despite the fact that he may not like them.


i definitely do not think giving kids full control over the decision to medicate is the lesser of two evils. yes, forced treatment is bad, as is a forced lack thereof. as mentioned before, 13 year olds do not know whats best for them most of the time; and it's not like their parents are likely to either if they send their kid to a TBS or put them on psych meds; but generally speaking the parents know BETTER. Contracts entered by the minor can be voided without just cause. The only way such a contract cannot be voided easily is if a guardian co-signs. this applies to medical treatment, in my opinion, for the same reasons as the intent of the law.


btw, i'm no doctor or scientologist. i'm also not the same person who started the thread. I just have a few philosophical bones to pick with medical community in regards to treatment of adolescent mood disorders. I was not saying psy should stop because he's a bad person or that drugs are bad period; i was saying he should stop just to give it a try, just so he can know what it's like without them. This is a philosophical discussion, not a flame fest. i'm sure psy understood that right away. if you want to interject, maybe you should pay attention at what is said/typed rather than skim and make assumptions.

[Anonymous]

it really puts a damper on your potential if you smoke during the day.

It really depends both on the strain and the person (and the job).  A Sativa strain is great for daytime.

[Anonymous]

it really puts a damper on your potential if you smoke during the day.

It really depends both on the strain and the person (and the job).  A Sativa strain is great for daytime.

i agree to an extent. but there are some issues with that statement:

1. Not everyone can pick and choose what strains they get. if you're in cali, then lucky you. we stoners of the east coast rarely get to pick from more than 2-3 strains at a time. we get amazing weed, but we smoke whatever our dealers have on them at the time. Not many (although some do) dealers around here carry a variety of strains, or are able to get a specific strain. combine that with the fact that sativas are hard to grow, yield little, cost more, and have less "bag appeal", dealers are less likely to carry pure sativas as they are hybrids or indicas. Most people on the east coast dont know jack shit about weed anyway, they use things like color, smell, density and trichome count as indicators of potency - and not many really care what kind of high the weed gives, as long as it gets them high and they get a good bang for the buck. Sativas are a connesuir's weed, average stoners cant appreciate it, and because of the inherent challenges in growing it, it's not common around here.

2. Sativas create tolerance faster than indicas. sure, it's a good daytime high. but if you smoke it during the day every day, 3-4 days into smoking the same strain a fatty wont do anything to you, so you have to switch around. this creates a need for access to a variety of strains on demand.

3. Even sativas can make someone lazy and not feel like doing anything. if you are an artist, musician, writer, then yes, smoking sativas during the day may in fact be beneficial to your career. Personally, i love smoking and writing papers, i write better stoned as it focuses me more and i become more creative. BUT, if you are an average student, or have a 9-5 job, smoking all day long, regardless of the strain, makes life a little more difficult. bassically, if you are an adult with a job, kids, house, etc.....even if you are an artist, smoking all day makes things more difficult. it's like having to constantly be climbing uphill.

4. LESS IS MORE. refer to point #2. smoke less, and less will get you higher. back when i smoked all the time....i THOUGHT i was getting high. i wasnt. i was just getting mellow. Remember how weed was the first couple times you smoked it? if you keep your habit down to 3-4 times a week you will get much much much higher on much much less weed.


i'm not decrying smoking weed...all day or sometimes. It doesnt matter to me, it's your life not mine. I just think that eventually.......you will probably come to the same conclusion i did. 80% of the serious stoners i knew back in college/highschool came to the same conclusion. The ones who have more than one kid simply dont even have the time to smoke. Of the other 20%, i'd say 10% are still smoking all day....basically living with their parents and playing video games as much as they can with no drive, direction or purpose in life; while the other 10% got into harder drugs......and i'm sure you know what happens to people after they've been doing alot of hard drugs for a few years.

If you're smokin weed all day and it's working out for you, then great! but just know one thing: as long as you do that, you're stuck in the muck, you're not going anywhere in life. you may think you are...but you're really not. It's either up, down, or straight. weed keeps you straight. other drugs will bring you down. the only thing that will make you go "up" (grow up) is a change of habits and lifestyle. if weed is an element or habit of that lifestyle....then that has to change.


another thing: I used to THINK that i could function smoking all day. i was functioning. i was doing fine. but i was JUST functioning, JUST doing fine. I wasnt doing anything great with my life. i wasnt going anywhere. as soon as i took a break for a few months.....my life just took off. I had ten times more energy and drive, and i regained my ambition.

[Anonymous]

it really puts a damper on your potential if you smoke during the day.

It really depends both on the strain and the person (and the job).  A Sativa strain is great for daytime.

i agree to an extent. but there are some issues with that statement:

1. Not everyone can pick and choose what strains they get. if you're in cali, then lucky you. we stoners of the east coast rarely get to pick from more than 2-3 strains at a time. we get amazing weed, but we smoke whatever our dealers have on them at the time. Not many (although some do) dealers around here carry a variety of strains, or are able to get a specific strain. combine that with the fact that sativas are hard to grow, yield little, cost more, and have less "bag appeal", dealers are less likely to carry pure sativas as they are hybrids or indicas. Most people on the east coast dont know jack shit about weed anyway, they use things like color, smell, density and trichome count as indicators of potency - and not many really care what kind of high the weed gives, as long as it gets them high and they get a good bang for the buck. Sativas are a connesuir's weed, average stoners cant appreciate it, and because of the inherent challenges in growing it, it's not common around here.

Absolutely, but to say that "weed" (impling all strains) makes people lazy or inactive during the day is inaccurate.  I hate when it's used as an argument to keep it illegal, especially since if it were legal, the same problem would not exist.

2. Sativas create tolerance faster than indicas. sure, it's a good daytime high. but if you smoke it during the day every day, 3-4 days into smoking the same strain a fatty wont do anything to you, so you have to switch around. this creates a need for access to a variety of strains on demand.

It depends on whether your motive for smoking during the day is to get "high" or to achieve a desired effect.  I feel that a constant dosage of sativa, for me, keeps me alert, similar to coffee.  So long as you keep the dosage constant and don't fluctuate (creating high tolerances) it works well.  Periodic abstinence "resets" any tolerance buildup and as you note, indicas/hybrids can be used for the evening / night time when a high level of alertness and functioning is not required.

3. Even sativas can make someone lazy and not feel like doing anything. if you are an artist, musician, writer, then yes, smoking sativas during the day may in fact be beneficial to your career. Personally, i love smoking and writing papers, i write better stoned as it focuses me more and i become more creative. BUT, if you are an average student, or have a 9-5 job, smoking all day long, regardless of the strain, makes life a little more difficult. bassically, if you are an adult with a job, kids, house, etc.....even if you are an artist, smoking all day makes things more difficult. it's like having to constantly be climbing uphill.

There I'd have to disagree, though to a certain extent it depends on the persom.  A good Sativa functions as a stimulant and so long as the dosage is not excessive, it can help people to function better for the vast majority of tasks.

[qoute]4. LESS IS MORE. refer to point #2. smoke less, and less will get you higher. back when i smoked all the time....i THOUGHT i was getting high. i wasnt. i was just getting mellow.[/quote]

Or slightly more "pepped up" in the case of Sativa.

Remember how weed was the first couple times you smoked it? if you keep your habit down to 3-4 times a week you will get much much much higher on much much less weed.

I agree, but for those who use it as a treatment for ADHD or similar, a constant dosage works well.  The trick is not to, as I said, increase tolerance by "binging" or getting "fucked up".

If you're smokin weed all day and it's working out for you, then great! but just know one thing: as long as you do that, you're stuck in the muck, you're not going anywhere in life. you may think you are...but you're really not. It's either up, down, or straight. weed keeps you straight. other drugs will bring you down. the only thing that will make you go "up" (grow up) is a change of habits and lifestyle. if weed is an element or habit of that lifestyle....then that has to change.

See.  There I disagree.  One can have a symbiotic, mutually beneficial relationship with weed.

another thing: I used to THINK that i could function smoking all day. i was functioning. i was doing fine. but i was JUST functioning, JUST doing fine.

For me, it's quantifiable.  Grades are better.  Job performance is better.  When I don't smoke, people notice.  It's only then they feel there is something "wrong".  I'm not talking about a one or two day cool-down period where there might be some temporary drowsiness. I'm talking about extended periods of abstinence where people wonder "What's gotten into you.  You cant' do X as well anymore".  For some people, who use it responsibly (constant moderated dosage with short periods of abstinence to "recharge" tolerance) and respect it, weed is a very effective life changing medication.

I wasnt doing anything great with my life. i wasnt going anywhere. as soon as i took a break for a few months.....my life just took off. I had ten times more energy and drive, and i regained my ambition.

I think that's because you were smoking Indica.  If you were smoking a good Sativa strain, I'm pretty sure you'd find the opposite to be true.  Then again, I have ADHD and you may not.

[Anonymous]

What is this shit? I can't make much sense of it the way it's formatted.

[Anonymous]

What the fuck y'all talking about?  None of you know how to get high.  You need an ounce of skank and don't bother cleaning it.  Put it in a Mason jar, fill the jar with kerosene and cap it.  Bury that shit behind your house on the first night with a full moon.  Dig it up in the morning, drain it and let it dry.  In the evening, drench that shit with embalming fluid.  Smoke or vaporize in open air.

Not only does it flip your wig but it will cure your ADHD too.

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about this topic for awhile.  It occurred to me a large majority of doctors don't talk about the benefits of exercise and good eating habits.  They can help some people who suffer from depression.

[Anonymous]

i've been trying to write a reply to this for a little while but every time my internet connection fucks up and i loose it. since i'm tired of typing the same thing for the fourth time now, i'll make it short and sweet.

You're coming from a perfect world mindset. aka california mindset. I'm coming from an east coast, realistic mindset. In cali, quality as it means to cardholders is bud that is gown naturally and with care, has a desirable and specific effect profile, and has a minimum of side effects. in cali, the most potent weed is by no means considered the best weed. demand drives supply, therefore it's easy to get a choice strain, and therefore easy to medicate rather than get fucked up. therefore, marijuana to cardholders in cali truly is medicinal.

On the east coast, people think that potency=quality, period. they dont care what kind of high it is, they dont care if it gives you a headache or puts you on the couch, as long as it gets you FUCKED UP. Therefore, the weed on the market here is generally the kind that gets you FUCKED UP, e.g indicas and hybrids like the diesels in particular. very rarely do you find sativas. when you do, it's usually haze, but the "haze" on the east coast is does not have an effect profile like most sativas. it will knock you out faster than any indica, and you'll wake up with a splitting headache. therefore, weed on the east coast (unless you have great connections or grow yourself) is a "get high" drug, not "get medicated" drug. the weed available here is generally of little medical value to daytime smokers. As for the people with cancer and whatnot, they have special underground (illegal) cooperatives all over the east coast and the rest of the country where they can get what they need....but you need to really truly be super sick to gain admission to those.
note: yes, alot of our weed is shipped in from cali. the customers and dealers want a certain level of bag appeal; so the transporters, brokers, and growers provide them with that. if people wanted more sativa then that's what they'd be sending here. but people here dont want sativas. they want to get fucked up.

in a perfect world, in MJ's truest essence, it's a valuable medication for many many many medical problems. But we do not live in a perfect world, and marijuana in it's current incarnation on the east coast is not really medicine for people who just need it to focus during the day.

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about this topic for awhile.  It occurred to me a large majority of doctors don't talk about the benefits of exercise and good eating habits.  They can help some people who suffer from depression.

it's true.

90% of america doesnt have a clue what good eating habits are.  that's because 90% of the food sold in america (including "healthy" foods like fruits and veggies) is absolute junk - due to the way they are grown, what is sprayed on it, how they are processed and stored. for example, people may think salads are a healthier option than burgers. Possibly....yes...but if the salad has been sprayed with pesticides and preservatives and stored for weeks, then the burger would be a healthier option given that it's grass fed and on a whole wheat or whole grain bun. It's important to eat clean, natural, local, and organic, Not just limit intakes of certain food groups. cutting down on carbs wont help you if you're eating junk food protein like industrial (e.g boars head, kraft, perdue, etc) cold cuts.  It's worthwhile to note that often people who are depressed have elevated levels of toxic substances in their blood (pesticides, heavy metals, veterinary antibiotics), likely from the food they eat, which may be a cause or factor in the depression.