aparently, adults want to go to programs too

[DannyB II]

Getting back to the last article, here are comments left for the above piece, "Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 16th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 1-25:


by Trish · 11 months ago

My heart is literally pounding out of my chest reading this! I am outraged at James Ray and his cult leaders. These people were like lambs to the slaughter, but they had to pay thousands for it. He should be sued for everything he has but that will not bring back the dead. You have people attending his meetings who have been abused, who have self-doubt, who are trying to become stronger and more powerful AND THIS IS WHAT THEY GET? I dont' even know what to say after this except that the universe rights itself James, so watch out...

by native woman · 11 months ago

Do any of you James Ray followers ask him if he knows what he is doing in that lodge? Whats the name of the person who taught him that and would they vouch for him? Did he ask if anyone had any health concerns before they went in? Did you EVEN ask questions? Are you discouraged from asking questions or looked down on if you do? Are you given real answers that you are satisfied with?
Before you went into that lodge did you feel you could trust that man with your life?

If I dont feel any safe answers to these questions about someone who says they can run a sweat. I DON'T go in.

ANYONE CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OR ALLOWED TO RUN A SWEAT!! Not everyone is telling you the truth.

Look up "New age Fraud" before you try to attend one of these things you call a "native american ritual" run by some nonnative who was taught by some white guy who was taught by his mom who was adopted into the XXX tribe became their medicine woman!!! why? cuz that's a lie!!!

by native woman ·11 months ago

say this because no one seems to question people that do this. I believe those people died and got hurt because James Ray didn't know how to properly run that lodge. Did anyone ask questions?

For all here, read the comments, "native women" makes, then maybe you will stop being a follower of the, "I blame every one else in my life for my decisions, crusade".
Ursus the originator of this thread is a strong believer in this and would like to convince you that with a fist full of money and a lawyer you too can be like me. Make any decision you want and not worry about the consequences, it is not your fault. I know doesn't make any sense.  


by Mary Ann · 11 months ago

Breaks my heart that they went through this. I too offer love and support to them as they work to learn to trust again.

by Lynn · 11 months ago

Woooowww. That man needs to be put out of commission.

Excellent article, Cassandra. The description by attendees (finally!) closely matched what I had imagined in my mind after researching the kind of man James Ray appears to be and getting some insight into his ego and his almost sociopathic responses to people's suffering, both now and in the past. It's aaaallll about him, after all, isn't it? Scary and sad.

by A friend · 11 months ago

Typo you can easily repair:
>>You will be taken care. You are provided for.
Thank you -- too astonished to comment right now.

by Duff · 11 months ago

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a hero.

by Critical Thinker · 11 months ago

Questioning such people are discouraged. They mock the questioner as being "negative" and imply even the slightest criticism is "proof" of the questioner's heresy. You see this all the time among the Secret "teachers"--Vitale, Schirmer, Ray--they all spout the same money-cult blame-the-victim lines. Ask 'em a question they don't want to answer, and time by the second hand on your watch how quickly it's turned on the questioner. Give 'em extra points if they use any of the following terms: "negative" "jealous" "destructive" or the ever-popular "I feel sorry for (the questioner)".

by Dave · 11 months ago

Excellent work. This guy, and others like him, are truly despicable and dangerous, yet they always seem to carry on with their programs unencumbered by guilt or shame, regardless of any evidence of their immoral, often criminal actions. Amazing. There has to be some way to hold them accountable.

I wish the best for the victims of his abuse, and I can only hope they reject his sliminess and come out in force to testify against him. Never mind lawsuits - this creep needs to go to prison.

by Incredulous · 11 months ago

I've watched and both liked and not liked James Ray for a few years now. I despised his pompous, arrogant, I'm so great talk, "I can help you - let me help you" in his videos, teleseminars, radio interviews. I think he truly believes he is annointed to raise up "the masses". Problem is NO ONE OTHER THAN ONESELF CAN RAISE UP ONESELF.

That's what all Spiritual Warrior was about, to create an experience that participants would identify as enlightenment so they would "attach" to James Ray and rave about his expensive events.

Megalomaniac describes it well. It also explains ALL that behavior that turned me off so many times I observed it.

Pure and simple, this man killed those people. To play with the flap door like that, physically stopping emergency exits? I'm speechless, ONLY a megalomaniac could do such a thing.

In this Universe one always gets back what one puts out. It's James turn to receive back that which he has wrought upon others.

My heart is with the surv

by Bob Schnebly · 11 months ago

This man James Ray needs to be held accountable for this in no uncertain terms... We need to get him off the streets. NOW!!!

Bob

by Curious · 11 months ago

Hi Cassandra, Can you check this out please? Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
Did she die while attending a "group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall" as part of the seminar?

by Incredulous · 11 months ago

I've watched and both liked and not liked James Ray for a few years now. I despised his pompous, arrogant, I'm so great talk, "I can help you - let me help you" in his videos, teleseminars, radio interviews. I think he truly believes he is annointed to raise up "the masses". Problem is NO ONE OTHER THAN ONESELF CAN RAISE UP ONESELF.

That's what all Spiritual Warrior was about, to create an experience that participants would identify as enlightenment so they would "attach" to James Ray and rave about his expensive events.

Megalomaniac describes it well. It also explains ALL that behavior that turned me off so many times I observed it.

Pure and simple, this man killed those people. To play with the flap door like that, physically stopping emergency exits? I'm speechless, ONLY a megalomaniac could do such a thing.

In this Universe one always gets back what one puts out. It's James turn to receive back that which he has wrought upon others.

My heart is with the surv

by Disturbed · 11 months ago

I was at CAW July 24-26 and was never made aware that any of the participants were missing much less dead despite the fact a "buddy" system was in place. I found out due to this recent tragedy that there was in fact a tragedy at my event too. I have only received good from the teachings that I have learned at events however I realize now that safety and concern of the participants is left at the door. There is definitely an air of time limited preparation if any and you never know where you are going to go. Granted this creates an aire of concern for your safety and does get you out of your comfort zone which is good. Many never reach their potential due to being stuck in "the same". But again, it must be done properly so there is only a belief you are in danger not actual danger. Less than that is a careless act of the host & means tragedy is just a matter of time. His lessons are destroyed by his actions regardless of how true they may be.

by MLWilde · 11 months ago

Like Incredulous, I have been both intrigued and repelled by James Ray. I met him in person with my infant daughter and his energy was like a block of lead - nothing inside. Sort of a locked energy and it was not very authentic. For someone like me, who is an empath, that said a lot.

I do not presume (like the author) to make assumptions about the retreat or Ray's ultimate intentions for his work. I am saddened that people will put unwavering faith in such guru figures.

We are all messengers for one another. We all respond to different packaging. I didn't like Rays overall packaging but I don't necessarily see him as inherently evil or as a megalomaniac. His intentions now are irrelevant, however telling his subsequent actions seem to be.

Teachers are just that, teachers. Take their words, find your truth and always listen to your inner voice. I don't think we need to point fingers at James Ray but to find the compassion to educate others and heal our own hearts.

[/b]
 
Another story for the sheep to read. Stop blaming others for your decisions.



by DJ · 11 months ago

Ditto!

I am speechless. What are the authorities in the USA and Australia doing about these people? People have been crying out for help for years without anyone listening. People have been intimidated, manipulated, abused, threatened, silenced, deceived, stolen from, told they were so negative just because they have an opinion or question someone and the list goes on and on and not one authority has done anything about it. Now we have several deaths that have made it to the media both in the US and Australia but WHAT ARE THE AUTHORITIES DOING? These people need shutting down immediately, at least until a full investigation has been conducted into the teachers qualifications, students interviewed (and not the ones that these teaches think should be interviewed, the ones who have walked away in disgust which actually seems to be the majority now) and the business accounts of these people thoroughly and forensically investigated. I would be a very very willing participant,thanks

by Karin Hiebert · 11 months ago

Ditto -- to what Duff SAID!

Read more;

saltydroid.info

by Corinne · 11 months ago

I was a member of Seaside Church in Encinitas, CA where James Ray's Parents both attend regularly. James Ray brought his "building wealth" seminar to us for a nominal fee, and when I went up to talk to him about my hesitation to pay $750 (after I'd already spent close to 10k on Judith Kravitz's Transformational Breathwork, as well as on Byron Katie's The Work, I was about "GURU'd" "Motivational Speakered" OUT! When I said I couldn't afford it now, he immediately dismissed me & moved his eyes from me and on to the next person he could convice. I realized then that all these types of people who offer seminars are just unable to work in the "regular sector" and it is most unfortunate that so many are looking outside thenselves for what can ONLY be found from within, because all the answers you are looking for are already available to YOU by YOURSELF, no anyone else! Build your network for support amongst family and friends, not motivational speakers & workshop leaders--Love Yourself

[/b]

These are messages underlined here that Corinne is so passionately saying, stop being followers, do not abandon yourself to anyone.


by Henry · 11 months ago

This is one of the best written report on this desateer event
Iam a student of Stanislav Groff ..and its is shoking that he as
mix the good name of dr Groff to this desaster
Shoking ...and many more seminar are advertize James ray web sites who will stop him

by Ruth · 11 months ago

While interesting, there's an awful lot of opinion and hearsay in this article. It's unfortunate that Cassanadra cannot name her sources, as I find it odd that no one else, anywhere that I've looked, has interviewed and reported on the personal experiences of the participants, including the participants themselves.

None of us were there, and therefore, it's all speculation. It's a big fat mess, and we can only wait and see what happens next.

Having said that, I will say I've been to two of James' seminars, and they were, literally, life-changing. My life and outlook has changed and for that I owe a huge thanks to James, because his work helped facilitate that change I so wanted and needed. I had no plans to go to any further seminars, not because I think he's a charlatan, snake oil salesman, etc, but because I got what I needed from him, and my lessons are taking me in a different direction.

by Ruth · 11 months ago

Prt 2: And while the prices he charges are really outrageous, I still think the money I paid was completely worth it. What's is it worth to change your life around? Can you put a price on that? A powerful teacher indeed.
But just because the teacher has failed spectacularly does not mean the teachings are not valid. Don't confuse the teachings with the teacher.
I'm sure James' lawyers are saying, "Admit nothing!" but it doesn't matter whether he would increase his chances of going to jail by admitting any culpability--it was/is the right thing to do. Be accountable--that's James' mantra, and one I agree with. I cannot understand how leaving the scene, not being with those who were injured, refusing to talk to the police and refusing to say anything about his responsibility, is accountable. Yet, ultimately, I believe he will step up and be counted.
And even though some of his devotees believe James is innocent, I'm quite sure this is going to haunt him for the rest of his days.

by Julie · 11 months ago

Thank you for this information. I attended last year and I'm stunned and heartsick to hear James would not let them out. That's inexcusable! Our event was similar but also VERY different because we were all able to go out when we felt we needed to. Oh my God, no wonder it ended so badly! I was not aware they were actually trapped or blocked from leaving. If that is the case, it makes the tragedy even worse. Mental coersion is bad enough but also physically preventing them from leaving? My heart breaks for these people.

by Dan · 11 months ago

Great rememberance of the event. One mistake, the Vision Quest was 24 hours in 2005. Otherwise reading this article was accurate. I chose to leave early in 2005. I was the first to exit and thank God that others followed me.

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

Great comments everyone!

Just to be clear, the above article is in reference to the October 2009 Spiritual Warrior retreat. While there is discussion on the 2005 event going on, I do not yet have enough information to speak authoratatively on that.

by Mourning. · 11 months ago

Thank You.

Copyright © Clarity Digital Group LLC d/b/a Examiner.com.

[Ursus]

by native woman · 11 months ago

Do any of you James Ray followers ask him if he knows what he is doing in that lodge? Whats the name of the person who taught him that and would they vouch for him? Did he ask if anyone had any health concerns before they went in? Did you EVEN ask questions? Are you discouraged from asking questions or looked down on if you do? Are you given real answers that you are satisfied with?
Before you went into that lodge did you feel you could trust that man with your life?

If I dont feel any safe answers to these questions about someone who says they can run a sweat. I DON'T go in.

ANYONE CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OR ALLOWED TO RUN A SWEAT!! Not everyone is telling you the truth.

Look up "New age Fraud" before you try to attend one of these things you call a "native american ritual" run by some nonnative who was taught by some white guy who was taught by his mom who was adopted into the XXX tribe became their medicine woman!!! why? cuz that's a lie!!!

by native woman ·11 months ago

I say this because no one seems to question people that do this. I believe those people died and got hurt because James Ray didn't know how to properly run that lodge. Did anyone ask questions?

For all here, read the comments, "native women" makes, then maybe you will stop being a follower of the, "I blame every one else in my life for my decisions, crusade".
Ursus the originator of this thread is a strong believer in this and would like to convince you that with a fist full of money and a lawyer you too can be like me. Make any decision you want and not worry about the consequences, it is not your fault. I know doesn't make any sense.

Danny, I fully agree with your resonance with native woman's advocating for common sense and critical assessment. If more people approached important decisions in their life this way, then maybe we'd have a lot less of these unfortunate incidents brought about by the greed of irresponsible quacks and hucksters (kinda like what happens in a lot of these programs in the TTI, if you ask me).

However, lack of common sense and critical thought does not necessarily equate to a "blam[ing] every one else in my life for my decisions crusade." Nor does lack of common sense and critical thought on the part of James Ray sweat lodge participants, if such is what it was, in any way lessen or even impact the moral culpability of James Ray and James Ray International for running the sweat lodge the way it was apparently run.

Incidentally, speaking of a "blam[ing] every one else in my life for my decisions crusade," where on earth do you get the idea that *I* ... am a "strong believer in this?" And where, pray tell, does the picture of "a fist full of money and a lawyer" come from? Have your sooper seekret "sources" been bending your ear too much?  :rofl:  Be careful where those "voices" from, ol' chap, you don't wanna get played for a fool.

Btw, I am also not the originator of this thread, although I kinda doubt that this fact will in any way sway your belief. I am under few illusions, at this point, that such a minor detail could possibly impact the sheer magnitude of your apparently quite strongly held preconceptions.  

[DannyB II]

duplicate

[DannyB II]

Ursus the originator of this thread is a strong believer in this and would like to convince you that with a fist full of money and a lawyer you too can be like me. Make any decision you want and not worry about the consequences, it is not your fault. I know doesn't make any sense.

Ursus wrote:
Danny, I fully agree with your resonance with native woman's advocating for common sense and critical assessment. If more people approached important decisions in their life this way, then maybe we'd have a lot less of these unfortunate incidents brought about by the greed of irresponsible quacks and hucksters (kinda like a lot of these programs in the TTI are run, if you ask me).

I did too, native women nailed it as far as I see it.
Adults Ursus, these are adults. Maybe if we stopped coddling adults for their irresponsible quackery, "I want to get better now" huckster routine, then your right, unfortunate incidents would not happen. These hucksters are on both sides.
Zanxax became poplar this way, hey pop a pill and you'll be fine. Go to James, your life changes. They believe this crap before they leave their living rooms because they want to.  

Ursus wrote
However, lack of common sense and critical thought does not necessarily equate to a "blam[ing] every one else in my life for my decisions crusade." Nor does lack of common sense and critical thought on the part of James Ray sweat lodge participants, if such is what it was, in any way lessen the moral culpability of James Ray International for running the sweat lodge the way it was apparently run.

We will have to see, (trial, judicial process) we already know something went wrong, folks died and were injured. So lets run the that, I have a major issue with common sense and critical thought and the lack of responsibility to use them, then when it is evident you did not, well, then we switch to hey, James Ray is morally deficient.

Ursus, you like to play that moral card little to much, very quick to pull it out.
 
Yah, Ray may be full of himself like any other person that has had large success (Bill O'Reily and Oprah Winfrey)  moral ineptness (maybe) but down right screwing people (lying) com'on.

Incidentally, speaking of a "blam[ing] every one else in my life for my decisions crusade," where on earth do you get the idea that *I* ... am a "strong believer in this?" And where, pray tell, does the picture of "a fist full of money and a lawyer" come from? Have your sooper seekret "sources" been bending your ear too much?  :rofl:  Be careful where those "voices" from, ol' chap, you don't wanna get played for a fool.

Is there ever going to be a time when you can mind your own business and just comment on quotes that were specifically made to you. You love to run around this board snatching comments from everywhere and hurling them back at posters.
 You wonder why we say the things about you, you act like a neglected housewife.
My comments were to Anne, tongue and cheek or not but still for Anne.

Ursus, this is you whole spiel here, the great defender for the irresponsible. You advocate for folks who make decisions based on their sense of helplessness (laziness, procrastination, slothfulness) and when they don't work out (self fulfilling prophesy) you come in to enable them to find an excuse.
Great a perpetuating circle of deniable actions.
Problem, nobody really benefits.
Hmmmm.......James Ray, MKP, Programs (TTI) it is all their fault, they set it all up, to swindle, terrorize and kill.
My man Ursus, has it all figured out.
Ursus, your crazy as most of your beliefs......  have you forgotten that there are mainstream thoughts, come back.

Btw, I am also not the originator of this thread, although I kinda doubt that this fact will in any way sway your belief. I am under few illusions, at this point, that such a minor detail could possibly impact the sheer motherlode of your apparently quite strongly held preconceptions.

Nope, Ursus, not preconceptions. They are monitored daily. You can sway my belief, you just choose not to.
Illusions, your right but can we bring in the delusional behavior you show, at times.   :rofl:

Got'ta admit that was funny.

[Ursus]

Onwards... to some more comments left for the above piece, "Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 16th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 26-50:


by Mourning. · 11 months ago

Facebook Page for JAR: Blog Commenter:

Danielle Hahn-Koprowski
I was at the Spiritual Warrior (SW) event in 2008 and I know exactly how this tragedy occurred

Since I had participated in more than 25 sweat lodge ceremonies prior to attending SW I had a different perspective than many who were there. I have never been to a lodge where anyone got sick except at SW. Last year, at least 20 people were sick and at least 1 person was dragged out unconscious at the end.

At a normal lodge no one is ever encouraged to stay, especially if they feel unwell in any way. James did not conduct the ceremony in the way that it was intended.... Read More

by Former employee · 11 months ago

A third person has passed away from this tragedy. When are the authorities going to act??

by Kay · 11 months ago

This is a lesson for all of us who seek truth and wisdom within for the coming times. I agree with Corinne. This is telling us that we are to look within at this time, rather than at Gurus for guidance. This was not LOVE-BASED, it was greed-based, unfortunately. We can create this new world together, simply, by helping each other and believing in the best....building a world that reflects community and love. There is no longer a need to SUFFER. We need only REMEMBER.

by James Possible · 11 months ago

If we are to take to heart what I feel Cassandra is conveying, would it not be equally inappropriate to hold Cassandra as hero?

What are the facts, where does Cassandra speak with HER bias? There is a lot of emotion in her writing, I would not be inclined to call it a subjective piece.

Saying things like "Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a hero." is in fact the very mentality that leads people to hold others as an authority ultimately giving them undue influence on their lives. Leaving many to feel powerless over their own lives.

Personally, there is a lot to process here as there are many comments being shared that do seem to hit home in some way. What is there to learn from this, what can this experience tell me about me and my past choices with others of influence?

As one commenter offered, indeed the messenger may have made a mistake, still, the message is worth understanding. Read more...

by phil · 11 months ago

Thanks for the warning now that was "harmonic"

by James Possible · 11 months ago

Going on a witch hunt, wanting to blame one person for EVERYTHING, using absolutes such as ALL, ALWAYS, etc. speak more about the commenter and fear than the facts.

Speaking as if the intent of another person is known to them again says more about the speaker than than the facts.

Understanding how coercive persuasion works or even that it is something to know when attending such events is quite valuable. As well as understanding how depriving yourself of such things as sleep, food and water can have the unintended outcome of making you more likely to accept what you might not accept otherwise.

Knowing your limits is critical and unfortunately for far to many people their limits are rarely tested. In the book "The Four Agreements" it is called domestication. Knowing that you are influenced and understanding how that influence impacts you and being able to make a choice thereafter is priceless.

It is tragic that the price being paid at this event was someones life. Read m

by James Possible · 11 months ago

In the end I would encourage you not to blame, rather to look at your own life and to observe where you are doing the same i.e., giving someone else authority over your life and choices. Even in small ways it comes with to high of a price.

Remember, not all teachers, trainers, coaches, mentors or therapists are created equal. Each will no doubt have an occassion where they are acting with authority and blindly recognizing it is happening and therefore missing how they are in fact creating the outcome for the one seeking their counsel.

I'll leave you with this final thought...

Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention!

Your life is your's to live, no one else can do it for you!

by Tennis Boy · 11 months ago

Is James human? Do accidents happen? Do we all have egos? Only if you have a body. Do egos become negligent? Do we all eventually transition (die)? Is this article filled with half truths? YES.
As a former spiritual warrior and journey of power graduate, the cost of the teachings, realizations, spiritual growth, and friendships? PRICELESS! Heal on!

by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago

healing thoughts and my condolences go out to the victims, now 3 of them. The latest victim Liz was a friend of mine in the past...and she was an amazing person who truly believed in James and his teachings.... She was probably one of the sweetest and most energetic person I knew...such a tragic ending. I know she is in a good place tho....and will be coming back soon in a new vehicle to experience a new life's journey.

by Old Vehicle · 11 months ago

I hope her new vehicle runs over your foot.

by Witch Hunt · 11 months ago

Not only do I hope we go on a "hunt", I further hope for a "capture".

by Is James Human? · 11 months ago

If by human, you mean criminally negligent.

by Sarah · 11 months ago

Dan above had the strength to leave in 2005, and he said, "Thank God that others followed me." People, you are sheep following the wrong leaders. Dan, spread the word - more should be following those who leave. So many followers are brainwashed victims. My dear friend died, brainwashed and believing lies.

by insider · 11 months ago

James is a charming, wayward Christian, went to darker beliefs. He needs to understand God is calling him back to his Christian beliefs. Only thru Christ can one obtain peace and tranquility in life. James, God wants your heart again.

by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago

just for the record... i am one of the people that saw James for who he was and got out before I could be brainwashed any futher... My friend Liz was not so lucky... It is so scary to know that even after this tragic incident and other incidents in the past, people are still standing by James and sticking up for him and signing up for his events and forking out money they don't have!

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

All my sci-fi peeps feel free to join me...
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Everyone's kind words mean a lot to me, and everyones critical discussions that point to where I can respond and help continue the discussion in new directions are just wonderful. To those that would brand me a hero, I am flattered but that's just silly. I'm merely participating in an effort to spread knowledge and improve the community.

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

As always, lovely discussions continuing. I remind everyone to PLAY NICE WITH EACHOTHER.

I would also like to remind everyone we are NOT going on a witch hunt. Wiki defines a witch hunt as a search for witches or evidence of witchcraft, often involving moral panic, mass hysteria, and lynching. The only relevant word in that entire definition is "moral". Using fear to motivate is James Ray's technique - fear of missing the next lesson, fear of his disapproval, fear of inadequacy.

I WILL NOT ACT IN FEAR. I act with purposeful deliberation to open a discussion about the unethical use of different types of power.

All my sci-fi peeps feel free to join me...
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

Everyone's kind words mean a lot to me, and everyones critical discussions that point to where I can respond and help continue the discussion in new directions are just wonderful. To those that would brand me a hero, I am flattered but that's just silly. I'm merely participating in an effort to spread knowledge and improve the community.

by Sundancer01 · 11 months ago

Wow, What a wide spectrum.
I walk a beautiful path with the Creator,and never has he asked me for monetery gift's. I sweat and pray regulary and the description's I read are so far off it is heartbreaking. We need to seek true native leader's and offer tabacco in a good way. This is how the teaching's are shared after we as common human being's approach the spiritual side of living. We have several native leaders in this country that are willing to share this path. They do it for the health of our youth and our planet, and our own health . Money can't buy happy

by Anonymous · 11 months ago

Olivia Truthe publishes the corporate email address for contacting James Arthur Ray. Follow the link to get the address:

http://www.facebook.com/oliviatruthe[/list]
by henry · 11 months ago

Thank you so much for the the blog radio info
So much precious informations from MR Tree.
As a member of the native american church myself
It is clear that this desaster was an aboration
of what a native american ceremony should be conducted.
Native elders had told James Ray that this was wrong
misuse of a very sacred native American ways .According to participants like Mourning ..alreadyin 2008
20 peple where sick....and James Ray ...still keep doing the same plastic cover sweat dome ....stupid ...criminal...greedy$$$
Like Mickey mouse in the movie Fantasia...The Sorcerer in the Apprentice ...Mickey mouse created created a desaster.
You do not play with sacred energy that native American
have been teaching from generations to generations.
Combine this with the teaching of James Ray
"To play full on " Trust me I know
May he be stop ASAP

by Dylan · 11 months ago

If anyone who has been involved in the James Ray scene is willing to go on the record - please email me rushofwind456@aol.com

I am a reporter. Thanks.

by gurugirl · 11 months ago

D I S C E R N M E N T

At this time of transition, be very careful about who and what you are following. In fact, if you are following at all, that is the first indication that you are off track. For those of you who are still students of gurus, we recommend discernment.

This is no longer a time of great spiritual teachers. It is now the time of great spirits instead. This shift from master/student to just plain master may cause a temporary unemployment problem in India and elsewhere, but do not be alarmed.

The true masters of light will make the shift with ease and will welcome your upcoming graduation with the same relief that they welcome their much deserved retirement.

by badbob · 11 months ago

birds of a feather? remember the Secret?
google this:
vimeo exposed national television schirmer 1 of 6

by Melonie · 11 months ago

I attended this event Sept-07 and left before the Vision Quest. I couldn't believe the brainwashing that was taking place and I wanted no part of it. If you didn't shave your head, it meant you were not giving up your attachments? WHAT? Do you know how ridiculous these women looked when they went back to the real world of family, friends and work! The final straw was when I learned that we had to sleep in the desert for 36 hours with no food and water, if this was told to me in advance I could have saved myself a lot of money. There was no way I would go without water for 36 hrs! I left, and never attended another event, even though I bought the $20,000 package and still had 2 events to attend, of which he offers NO REFUNDS. I knew James was a fraud and a complete ego-maniac at that time and have warned many others over the last 2 years.
My sincerest condolences to the families of the three deceased people.

Copyright © Clarity Digital Group LLC d/b/a Examiner.com.

[DannyB II]

Onwards... to some more comments left for the above piece, "Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 16th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 26-50:


by Mourning. · 11 months ago

Facebook Page for JAR: Blog Commenter:

Danielle Hahn-Koprowski
I was at the Spiritual Warrior (SW) event in 2008 and I know exactly how this tragedy occurred

Since I had participated in more than 25 sweat lodge ceremonies prior to attending SW I had a different perspective than many who were there. I have never been to a lodge where anyone got sick except at SW. Last year, at least 20 people were sick and at least 1 person was dragged out unconscious at the end.

At a normal lodge no one is ever encouraged to stay, especially if they feel unwell in any way. James did not conduct the ceremony in the way that it was intended.... Read More

by Former employee · 11 months ago

A third person has passed away from this tragedy. When are the authorities going to act??

by Kay · 11 months ago

This is a lesson for all of us who seek truth and wisdom within for the coming times. I agree with Corinne. This is telling us that we are to look within at this time, rather than at Gurus for guidance. This was not LOVE-BASED, it was greed-based, unfortunately. We can create this new world together, simply, by helping each other and believing in the best....building a world that reflects community and love. There is no longer a need to SUFFER. We need only REMEMBER.

People, stop blaming others for your stupidity. Your father does not hold the key, you do. Find it inside.

by James Possible · 11 months ago

If we are to take to heart what I feel Cassandra is conveying, would it not be equally inappropriate to hold Cassandra as hero?

What are the facts, where does Cassandra speak with HER bias? There is a lot of emotion in her writing, I would not be inclined to call it a subjective piece.

Saying things like "Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a hero." is in fact the very mentality that leads people to hold others as an authority ultimately giving them undue influence on their lives. Leaving many to feel powerless over their own lives.

Personally, there is a lot to process here as there are many comments being shared that do seem to hit home in some way. What is there to learn from this, what can this experience tell me about me and my past choices with others of influence?

As one commenter offered, indeed the messenger may have made a mistake, still, the message is worth understanding. Read more...[/list]

Bravo Bravo!!!!!!!  Please everyone read again. So many want to be sheep and then howl like a wolf.



by phil · 11 months ago

Thanks for the warning now that was "harmonic"

by James Possible · 11 months ago

Going on a witch hunt, wanting to blame one person for EVERYTHING, using absolutes such as ALL, ALWAYS, etc. speak more about the commenter and fear than the facts.

Speaking as if the intent of another person is known to them again says more about the speaker than than the facts.

Understanding how coercive persuasion works or even that it is something to know when attending such events is quite valuable. As well as understanding how depriving yourself of such things as sleep, food and water can have the unintended outcome of making you more likely to accept what you might not accept otherwise.

Knowing your limits is critical and unfortunately for far to many people their limits are rarely tested. In the book "The Four Agreements" it is called domestication. Knowing that you are influenced and understanding how that influence impacts you and being able to make a choice thereafter is priceless.

It is tragic that the price being paid at this event was someones life. Read m[/list]

by James Possible · 11 months ago

In the end I would encourage you not to blame, rather to look at your own life and to observe where you are doing the same i.e., giving someone else authority over your life and choices. Even in small ways it comes with to high of a price.

Remember, not all teachers, trainers, coaches, mentors or therapists are created equal. Each will no doubt have an occassion where they are acting with authority and blindly recognizing it is happening and therefore missing how they are in fact creating the outcome for the one seeking their counsel.

I'll leave you with this final thought...

Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention!

Your life is your's to live, no one else can do it for you![/list]

[/color]



by Tennis Boy · 11 months ago

Is James human? Do accidents happen? Do we all have egos? Only if you have a body. Do egos become negligent? Do we all eventually transition (die)? Is this article filled with half truths? YES.
As a former spiritual warrior and journey of power graduate, the cost of the teachings, realizations, spiritual growth, and friendships? PRICELESS! Heal on!

by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago

healing thoughts and my condolences go out to the victims, now 3 of them. The latest victim Liz was a friend of mine in the past...and she was an amazing person who truly believed in James and his teachings.... She was probably one of the sweetest and most energetic person I knew...such a tragic ending. I know she is in a good place tho....and will be coming back soon in a new vehicle to experience a new life's journey.

by Old Vehicle · 11 months ago

I hope her new vehicle runs over your foot.

by Witch Hunt · 11 months ago

Not only do I hope we go on a "hunt", I further hope for a "capture".

by Is James Human? · 11 months ago

If by human, you mean criminally negligent.

by Sarah · 11 months ago

Dan above had the strength to leave in 2005, and he said, "Thank God that others followed me." People, you are sheep following the wrong leaders. Dan, spread the word - more should be following those who leave. So many followers are brainwashed victims. My dear friend died, brainwashed and believing lies.

by insider · 11 months ago

James is a charming, wayward Christian, went to darker beliefs. He needs to understand God is calling him back to his Christian beliefs. Only thru Christ can one obtain peace and tranquility in life. James, God wants your heart again.

by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago

just for the record... i am one of the people that saw James for who he was and got out before I could be brainwashed any futher... My friend Liz was not so lucky... It is so scary to know that even after this tragic incident and other incidents in the past, people are still standing by James and sticking up for him and signing up for his events and forking out money they don't have!

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

All my sci-fi peeps feel free to join me...
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Everyone's kind words mean a lot to me, and everyones critical discussions that point to where I can respond and help continue the discussion in new directions are just wonderful. To those that would brand me a hero, I am flattered but that's just silly. I'm merely participating in an effort to spread knowledge and improve the community.

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

As always, lovely discussions continuing. I remind everyone to PLAY NICE WITH EACHOTHER.

I would also like to remind everyone we are NOT going on a witch hunt. Wiki defines a witch hunt as a search for witches or evidence of witchcraft, often involving moral panic, mass hysteria, and lynching. The only relevant word in that entire definition is "moral". Using fear to motivate is James Ray's technique - fear of missing the next lesson, fear of his disapproval, fear of inadequacy.

I WILL NOT ACT IN FEAR. I act with purposeful deliberation to open a discussion about the unethical use of different types of power.

All my sci-fi peeps feel free to join me...
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

Everyone's kind words mean a lot to me, and everyones critical discussions that point to where I can respond and help continue the discussion in new directions are just wonderful. To those that would brand me a hero, I am flattered but that's just silly. I'm merely participating in an effort to spread knowledge and improve the community.

by Sundancer01 · 11 months ago

Wow, What a wide spectrum.
I walk a beautiful path with the Creator,and never has he asked me for monetery gift's. I sweat and pray regulary and the description's I read are so far off it is heartbreaking. We need to seek true native leader's and offer tabacco in a good way. This is how the teaching's are shared after we as common human being's approach the spiritual side of living. We have several native leaders in this country that are willing to share this path. They do it for the health of our youth and our planet, and our own health . Money can't buy happy

by Anonymous · 11 months ago

Olivia Truthe publishes the corporate email address for contacting James Arthur Ray. Follow the link to get the address:

http://www.facebook.com/oliviatruthe[/list]
by henry · 11 months ago

Thank you so much for the the blog radio info
So much precious informations from MR Tree.
As a member of the native American church myself
It is clear that this disaster was an abortion
of what a native American ceremony should be conducted.
Native elders had told James Ray that this was wrong
misuse of a very sacred native American ways .According to participants like Mourning ..already in 2008
20 people where sick....and James Ray ...still kept doing the same plastic cover sweat dome ....stupid ...criminal...greedy$$$
Like Mickey mouse in the movie Fantasia...The Sorcerer in the Apprentice ...Mickey mouse created created a disaster.
You do not play with sacred energy that native American
have been teaching from generations to generations.
Combine this with the teaching of James Ray
"To play full on " Trust me I know
May he be stop ASAP

by Dylan · 11 months ago

If anyone who has been involved in the James Ray scene is willing to go on the record - please email me rushofwind456@aol.com

I am a reporter. Thanks.

by gurugirl · 11 months ago

D I S C E R N M E N T

At this time of transition, be very careful about who and what you are following. In fact, if you are following at all, that is the first indication that you are off track. For those of you who are still students of gurus, we recommend discernment.

This is no longer a time of great spiritual teachers. It is now the time of great spirits instead. This shift from master/student to just plain master may cause a temporary unemployment problem in India and elsewhere, but do not be alarmed.

The true masters of light will make the shift with ease and will welcome your upcoming graduation with the same relief that they welcome their much deserved retirement.[/list]
by badbob · 11 months ago

birds of a feather? remember the Secret?
google this:
vimeo exposed national television schirmer 1 of 6

by Melonie · 11 months ago

I attended this event Sept-07 and left before the Vision Quest. I couldn't believe the brainwashing that was taking place and I wanted no part of it. If you didn't shave your head, it meant you were not giving up your attachments? WHAT? Do you know how ridiculous these women looked when they went back to the real world of family, friends and work! The final straw was when I learned that we had to sleep in the desert for 36 hours with no food and water,


This is a total fabrication and over dramatization of the experience she was going to attend. No one is denied water, food or shelter, you push yourself as far as you can go.
Now paying $20,000.00 for these experiences only goes to her ignorance and down right stupidity. I paid $150.00 and spent 11 days in the desert with limited provisions. (I mean very little)
I understand they are also paying for James Ray educational expertises, well I was told a long time ago, teachers are everywhere.


if this was told to me in advance I could have saved myself a lot of money. There was no way I would go without water for 36 hrs! I left, and never attended another event, even though I bought the $20,000 package and still had 2 events to attend, of which he offers NO REFUNDS. I knew James was a fraud and a complete ego-maniac at that time and have warned many others over the last 2 years.
My sincerest condolences to the families of the three deceased people.[/list]

Copyright © Clarity Digital Group LLC d/b/a Examiner.com.

[Anne Bonney]

Understanding how coercive persuasion works or even that it is something to know when attending such events is quite valuable.

Maybe, but Ray sure didn't inform his clients of this now, did he?

As well as understanding how depriving yourself of such things as sleep, food and water can have the unintended outcome of making you more likely to accept what you might not accept otherwise.

Yeah, it's called brainwashing.

Knowing your limits is critical and unfortunately for far to many people their limits are rarely tested. In the book "The Four Agreements" it is called domestication. Knowing that you are influenced and understanding how that influence impacts you and being able to make a choice thereafter is priceless.

But when you sign yourself over to some wannabe guru who tells you to follow and trust him, no matter what then it's the responsibility of the supposed guru to keep you safe during your "treatment".  This guy couldn't have cared less about the safety of the people he was supposed to be helping.

This is a total fabrication and over dramatization of the experience she was going to attend. No one is denied water, food or shelter, you push yourself as far as you can go.
Now paying $20,000.00 for these experiences only goes to her ignorance and down right stupidity. I paid $150.00 and spent 11 days in the desert with limited provisions. (I mean very little)
I understand they are also paying for James Ray educational expertises, well I was told a long time ago, teachers are everywhere.

You feel qualified to tell some woman whom you've never met that her experience is a "total fabrication", yet you get upset when people dare question your very strange worldview.  Interesting.

[DannyB II]

Understanding how coercive persuasion works or even that it is something to know when attending such events is quite valuable.

Maybe, but Ray sure didn't inform his clients of this now, did he?

It does not make any difference if he told them or not, (many LGAT's are confidential until you do them)if you really want to get down to it, we are adults. Just the fact people read or studied to find out about Ray go to their awareness of at least some info on what they were going to be doing.
 

As well as understanding how depriving yourself of such things as sleep, food and water can have the unintended outcome of making you more likely to accept what you might not accept otherwise.

Yeah, it's called brainwashing.

Anne, it is critical that we understand that the attendees are engaged and willingly accept as part of the exercise the lack of essentials. This feeling of desperation is part of the experience. It is very important that folks understand their bodies.
It is not for everyone. I did a Vision Quest in the Desert of California and on Bali. Both were extremely challenging.

Knowing your limits is critical and unfortunately for far to many people their limits are rarely tested. In the book "The Four Agreements" it is called domestication. Knowing that you are influenced and understanding how that influence impacts you and being able to make a choice thereafter is priceless.

But when you sign yourself over to some wannabe guru who tells you to follow and trust him, no matter what then it's the responsibility of the supposed guru to keep you safe during your "treatment".  This guy couldn't have cared less about the safety of the people he was supposed to be helping.

No No No, that is not how it is set up or how it works, nobody is encouraged to sign themselves over to anybody, it is the experience or exercise that your signing up for. Only you know how far your body can go.
Anne, I have to disagree with you, it is not the guides job to make sure you are safe only that the experience/exercise is relatively safe for all. My job as a participant is to monitor my well being and safety.

This is a total fabrication and over dramatization of the experience she was going to attend. No one is denied water, food or shelter, you push yourself as far as you can go.
Now paying $20,000.00 for these experiences only goes to her ignorance and down right stupidity. I paid $150.00 and spent 11 days in the desert with limited provisions. (I mean very little)
I understand they are also paying for James Ray educational expertises, well I was told a long time ago, teachers are everywhere.

You feel qualified to tell some woman whom you've never met that her experience is a "total fabrication", yet you get upset when people dare question your very strange worldview.  Interesting.

I do to a certain degree because I have done (2) Vision Quests and Ray does his very similar. I never even paid close to $20,000.00 for both and for one I went to Bali.

[Anne Bonney]

[
It does not make any difference if he told them or not, (many LGAT's are confidential until you do them)if you really want to get down to it, we are adults. Just the fact people read or studied to find out about Ray go to their awareness of at least some info on what they were going to be doing.

Informed consent.  Especially if there is any form of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" involved.
 

Anne, it is critical that we understand that the attendees are engaged and willingly accept as part of the exercise the lack of essentials. This feeling of desperation is part of the experience. It is very important that folks understand their bodies.
It is not for everyone. I did a Vision Quest in the Desert of California and on Bali. Both were extremely challenging.

Again, informed consent.  They deserve to know what they're getting themselves into.  

No No No, that is not how it is set up or how it works, nobody is encouraged to sign themselves over to anybody, it is the experience or exercise that your signing up for. Only you know how far your body can go.
Anne, I have to disagree with you, it is not the guides job to make sure you are safe only that the experience/exercise is relatively safe for all. My job as a participant is to monitor my well being and safety.

Safely....there's a key word. and the hell it isn't  the organization's responsibility to make sure the participants have informed consent, and I believe, from what the D.A./S.A's office has determined so far, that I'm right.  We'll see what the court decision is.

I do to a certain degree because I have done (2) Vision Quests and Ray does his very similar. I never even paid close to $20,000.00 for both and for one I went to Bali.

So, I'll ask again....you feel qualified to completely dismiss this woman's view, her experience,  as a "total fabrication"?  People pay all kinds of money to all kinds of snakeoil salesmen to give them "the answer" to life.  The sad, yet wonderful truth is, we all have to figure it out for ourselves.

[DannyB II]

[
It does not make any difference if he told them or not, (many LGAT's are confidential until you do them)if you really want to get down to it, we are adults. Just the fact people read or studied to find out about Ray go to their awareness of at least some info on what they were going to be doing.

Informed consent.  Especially if there is any form of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" involved.

No they don't.
 

Anne, it is critical that we understand that the attendees are engaged and willingly accept as part of the exercise the lack of essentials. This feeling of desperation is part of the experience. It is very important that folks understand their bodies.
It is not for everyone. I did a Vision Quest in the Desert of California and on Bali. Both were extremely challenging.

Again, informed consent.  They deserve to know what they're getting themselves into.  

Once again not to be argumentive. They do not have to.

No No No, that is not how it is set up or how it works, nobody is encouraged to sign themselves over to anybody, it is the experience or exercise that your signing up for. Only you know how far your body can go.
Anne, I have to disagree with you, it is not the guides job to make sure you are safe only that the experience/exercise is relatively safe for all. My job as a participant is to monitor my well being and safety.

Safely....there's a key word. and the hell it isn't  the organization's responsibility to make sure the participants have informed consent, and I believe, from what the D.A./S.A's office has determined so far, that I'm right.  We'll see what the court decision is.

Whatever.....what's the point, it is all about you. I am sure James Ray will be held accountable for negligence, folks died.
Whether the workshops will have informed consent on the level you want it , I doubt it will ever work out that way.
Yes Anne, more people will die pushing themselves, part of life.

I do to a certain degree because I have done (2) Vision Quests and Ray does his very similar. I never even paid close to $20,000.00 for both and for one I went to Bali.

So, I'll ask again....you feel qualified to completely dismiss this woman's view, her experience,  as a "total fabrication"?  People pay all kinds of money to all kinds of snakeoil salesmen to give them "the answer" to life.  The sad, yet wonderful truth is, we all have to figure it out for ourselves.

Women and men views I have dismissed as completely fabricated nonsense, yes absolutely.
Problem, the only snakes are those in the desert.

[Anne Bonney]

It does not make any difference if he told them or not, (many LGAT's are confidential until you do them)if you really want to get down to it, we are adults. Just the fact people read or studied to find out about Ray go to their awareness of at least some info on what they were going to be doing.

Informed consent.  Especially if there is any form of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" involved.

No they don't.

Wait....you're seriously saying that anyone that enters into this kind of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" is NOT entitled to informed consent???  Really?
 

Once again not to be argumentive. They do not have to.

You don't believe they should be informed of what they're getting into?  Seriously?

Safely....there's a key word. and the hell it isn't  the organization's responsibility to make sure the participants have informed consent, and I believe, from what the D.A./S.A's office has determined so far, that I'm right.  We'll see what the court decision is.

Whatever.....

That's your response to the fact that the D.A./S.A. disagrees and had filed charges?

what's the point, it is all about you.

Huh?

I am sure James Ray will be held accountable for negligence, folks died.

Yeah, let's hope so.

Whether the workshops will have informed consent on the level you want it , I doubt it will ever work out that way.
Yes Anne, more people will die pushing themselves, part of life.

I don't have a problem with people dying while pushing themselves to their limits.  I do, however, believe...as do the courts.....that they have the right to informed consent to what they're getting into.  It's such a basic part of the standard of care that I can't believe you'd advocate for anything less.

Women and men views I have dismissed as completely fabricated nonsense, yes absolutely.
Problem, the only snakes are those in the desert.

I'm sorry.....what?

[DannyB II]

It does not make any difference if he told them or not, (many LGAT's are confidential until you do them)if you really want to get down to it, we are adults. Just the fact people read or studied to find out about Ray go to their awareness of at least some info on what they were going to be doing.

Informed consent.  Especially if there is any form of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" involved.

No they don't.

Wait....you're seriously saying that anyone that enters into this kind of "treatment" or "counseling" or "therapy" is NOT entitled to informed consent???  Really?

This is not treatment, counseling or therapy. It is a guided experiential workshop. I don't presume any Psychiatrists, Doctors or educated counselors will be there or have to be there. I am not demanding informed consent because it is not needed.
 
 

Once again not to be argumentive. They do not have to.

You don't believe they should be informed of what they're getting into?  Seriously?

Of course I do, to a certain degree. Anne in all the workshops, sweats and challenges I've done, there was a certain amount of responsibility placed on me (I placed it there) to read and educate myself. I informed myself, then heard from the leaders of the workshop what they wanted from me.
I have walked away from 3 workshops in my time due to either being lame or they were irresponsible in what they were doing.

Safely....there's a key word. and the hell it isn't  the organization's responsibility to make sure the participants have informed consent, and I believe, from what the D.A./S.A's office has determined so far, that I'm right.  We'll see what the court decision is.

Whatever.....

That's your response to the fact that the D.A./S.A. disagrees and had filed charges?

They are doing there JOB. No problem.

what's the point, it is all about you.

Huh?

I am sure James Ray will be held accountable for negligence, folks died.

Yeah, let's hope so.

Whether the workshops will have informed consent on the level you want it , I doubt it will ever work out that way.
Yes Anne, more people will die pushing themselves, part of life.

I don't have a problem with people dying while pushing themselves to their limits.  I do, however, believe...as do the courts.....that they have the right to informed consent to what they're getting into.  It's such a basic part of the standard of care that I can't believe you'd advocate for anything less.

Anne, they were informed.

Women and men views I have dismissed as completely fabricated nonsense, yes absolutely.
Problem, the only snakes are those in the desert.

I'm sorry.....what?

[Anne Bonney]

This is not treatment, counseling or therapy. It is a guided experiential workshop. I don't presume any Psychiatrists, Doctors or educated counselors will be there or have to be there. I am not demanding informed consent because it is not needed.

Yup....and like I said in another thread.....any ole jackass can "lead" on of these.

Of course I do, to a certain degree. Anne in all the workshops, sweats and challenges I've done, there was a certain amount of responsibility placed on me (I placed it there) to read and educate myself. I informed myself, then heard from the leaders of the workshop what they wanted from me.
I have walked away from 3 workshops in my time due to either being lame or they were irresponsible in what they were doing.

Safety is the key for me.   These people put their trust in this guy and he not only let them down, he's downright proud of it and really doesn't seem to give a goddamn.  Which is why I've asked if the vileness you spew out here is a result of your "New Warrior Training", which you've never answered.  That's an honest question too, given what I've read in regards to how this guy views women.

Anne, they were informed.

Apparently not well enough given that part of the plan is that they don't know what they're to expect.

[DannyB II]

Hey, I don't know what else to tell you. This conversation is going in circles. So at this point I will just agree to disagree with you. Good nite.

[Ursus]

Comments left for the above piece, "Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 16th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 51-75:


by sedona · 11 months ago

"I've been raped, robbed, stabbed, lied to, cheated on, abused,
and burned out of my home. Those things healed easily compared
to the mental healing required to escape a cult."

by CC · 11 months ago

Continued from above: The leader not allowing and/or discouraging people from exiting the lodge (and cooling down) between rounds, encouraging participants to IGNORE THEIR BODIES WARNINGS, a lodge constructed with plastic as a covering that did not ?breathe?, too many Rounds (6 instead of 4) leading to excessive over-heating, the possible burning of substances (incense) inappropriate inside a sweat lodge (traditionally only sweet grass, sage and/or cedar are placed on the hot rocks).

by CC · 11 months ago

The news media has focused on the Sweat Lodge as the primary reason for this tragedy, but there are many contributing factors to consider: sleep deprivation, 36 hours of no water or food, a night on a cold desert with no shelter and insufficient clothing, breaking the fast and EATING before a sweat lodge (not good! usually an empty or near-empty stomach is the norm), over-crowded conditions in a lodge of the wrong shape for adequate ventilation and participants sitting in the area farthest from the door (which was proportionally too small for the over-sized lodge) having little or no ventilation when the door was opened between Rounds (leading to depletion of available oxygen, compounded by the creation of carbon dioxide by the breath of 60+ people), (continued below)

by amstar · 11 months ago

Having assisted a Native American Elder in putting people through fasts for a number of years (I am a veteran of 8 four-day fasts myself), I can tell you that Ray's participants were not prepared properly for such an undertaking. The Elder would require that people who wished to fast had to undergo a number of teachings so they could be clear on the reasons for their fast and be taught how to deal with the physical, emotional and spiritual challenges they would face. He allowed people to fast with tents and sleeping bags (but no food or water) and stayed at the fasting ground to offer counseling and make sure everyone was okay. He believed that most people nowadays could not survive the traditional way of fasting (basically you and a blanket) and did not expect it. When the fast was over, he would have us eat something and throw it up to clean the "poisons" out of our stomachs. We would not eat until after our final sweat lodge; he would have us drink water and medicine tea only.

by Instant Karma · 11 months ago

The guy is playing God, toying with the lives of other people like a cat with a half-dead mouse.....and shows no regrets.

What's the difference between James Ray and a serial killer?

by 'Journey of Power' Participant · 11 months ago

I've attended all of James Rays other events, with the exception of this one in Sedona. What happened there was always held secret by past attendees and it was held up as the most transformative experience, hence the high price tag. This is an incredibly difficult situation. JR's teachings are top notch. I've used them to transform my life and continued to study based on his recommended readings, branching off to more and more and I've realized the great works he's used as source for his teachings. I agree with someone else who said not to confuse the teachings with the teacher. Having said that, he is VERY charismatic and I noticed over the course of two years of attending his events that his ego is massive. It was hard to marry that with the sincerity he projected while speaking. I appreciated his hard line approach to play full-on, to push yourself. But it took alot not to cave to the peer pressure at his events and to remember to do MY best. I'm not pretending to be (continued)

by 'Journey of Power' Participant · 11 months ago

better than anyone else - who knows what I would have done if there. I like to think my strong-willed nature would have won out. The problem here is the tactics used to manipulate people. I think JR has used them to help alot of people in the past and it finally came around to bite him in the you know what. It's heartbreaking that people had to die to signal that he needs to check his ego. I don't think his people are in a cult (I still count myself among them - I have made many friends I still keep in contact with and I still use and would recommend his materials) and I fear that this will turn people off to the true essence of healthy spiritual yearning for more. My hope is that people will realize it's an individual journey and shouldn't be twisted to fit into exercises where everyone is pressured to perform the same - kinda contradictory, huh? I neither wish JR harm nor blessings, whatever consequences he faces will be what he brought on himself.

by Sage · 11 months ago

I attended Kirby Brown's funeral. To see her family in such anguish and pain was heart wrenching. I'm still exhausted from the painful energy that was entrenched around everyone there.

Ray is an evil, a monster and needs to pay..but it won't bring back the beautiful souls nor soothe the agony of their families and friends...but will stop him from hurting other people in the future...but more of him will crop up. Be wise my fellow people.
Sweat Lodges are a sacred ceremony. I had one on my land in Santa Fe, NM....this was not a sweat lodge, it was a "death Lodge."

by Orchid · 11 months ago

"James is a charming, wayward Christian, went to darker beliefs. He needs to understand God is calling him back to his Christian beliefs. Only thru Christ can one obtain peace and tranquility in life. James, God wants your heart again." So let me get this straight...if he follows your 'christain' cult he will be saved from his own cult? Sounds like more stupid human tricks! Wash the brainwashers brain with a dose of Jesus!
Melonie...you must grow money on trees if you are stupid enough to give this guy $20,000 to better yourself. Perhaps you are one that thinks if it costs more it must be better!

by Hurt by James Ray · 11 months ago

Cassandra, great articles. I hope they help bring all those suffering due to James Ray's acts comfort and some answers.

In response to Curious, Hi Cassandra, Can you check this out please? Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
Did she die while attending a "group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall" as part of the seminar?

Yes Colleen was attending the Absolute Wealth seminar and was at the plaza mall as part of the seminar. Were others there? As someone else said they weren't even made aware at the seminar that someone was missing and had jumped from the 3rd story at the mall.

Can someone tell me what you do while on these field trips to the mall etc? Please let me know, I would really like to know what would make Colleen do this.

God bless you all who have opened up what goes on at these events, it really helps those who have not attended one.

by justababe · 11 months ago

I have heard numerous Elders speak on the dangers of ceremonies being run by those without proper instruction, understanding, training and respect, and/or with ego at play. This situation is exactly what they warn of.
I have undertaken traditional fasts ("vision quests") and supported others - 4 days without food or water - all are prepared for and instructed on the process, the things they need to have, and what follows. It is not about "endurance".
I have participated in and assisted with many inipi ceremonies over many years, and could say a great deal about that, but will stick to this one point: the person(s) responsible for the inipi ceremony is responsible for every person who participates! It is a ceremony of prayer and healing, and no-one is ever forced to remain inside! If a person is having a hard time, the lodge-keeper assists or directs assistance for that person, and follows up with them, sometimes for weeks, months, years. There is NEVER money involved

by Jane · 11 months ago

Why did it take me so long to find this site? I wanted to know what really happened. Thank you! Why isn't this on FOX or Larry King? This is a real story people need to hear about! This is not just an accident! Please get this out there!

by ACE · 11 months ago

Hurt by James Ray?, the Horton Plaza Mall exercise is most likely the one where JR dresses everyone up in ripped up and tattered clothes with dirt and gunk smeared on their faces and in there hair to pose as homeless people on the streets of SD for a couple of hours. People are asked to play full on as if they were homeless; meaning some asked for food and money while other did not. Others were there but at the CAW I was at in 2004 we were told to avoid other participants. It was suppose to be an individual challenge. After the fact as some of us talked about our experience amongst ourselves it was reveled that some people faced dangerous situations. That is why when I first read about this I wondered if she had been harmed by someone she encountered during her time on the streets. My wife had a rather large man pursuing her to go home with him if he was more aggressive who know what would have happen and I was threatened because I was in another homeless person?s turf.

by ACE · 11 months ago

Great point Jane and one I have wondered myself. If you Google this story you see quite a few articles but not many from the ?main stream? media outlets. They are too concerned over the hoax balloon story to focus on real news. Its up to us to let them know they need to focus energy on this story. Please let them hear your voice to get this story the recognition it deserves.

by Joan · 11 months ago

I was with you up until you lumped Landmark Education in with the Jonestown tragedy in your summation paragraph. Ridiculous association, which now makes me question the entire article. Back in the 70's in Landmark's infant stages, then called the EST program, yes, there were some questionable psychological methods used (limited bathroom breaks), but the Landmark Education of today is NOT that AT ALL. While, yes, there is a captive audience of those seeking transformation, it is inspirational and effective, NOT at ALL harmful, with choices to leave at any time. The only thing that ever hurt was my backside from sitting so long in a conference chair. And, everyone was given the option to bring their own chair, or pillows, whatever they wanted for their comfort. Personal WELL-BEING was stressed, and being responsible for helping fellow man. In fact our family was strengthened greatly with what we learned from the two years we attended a variety of Landmark Education forum and seminars.

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

Joan: James Ray is using a self-created mixed modality that draws on many different techniques. I am NOT relating Landmark Education to Jonestown, I am merely citing subjects I believe have contributed to James Ray's technique. I continue to maintain that it is not the techniques that are the problem, it is the way in which they are being used.

by brainwashed · 11 months ago

50 million americans turn on the show Survivor. On that show we throw people in environments that can be as dangerous, if not MORE as Arizona. We deprive them of food, water, shelter and bathrooms. OK, so we don't charge them to be on the show, however, we honor the participants courage by turning on our television and gossiping all week long about "how they play the game!" O, and the winner, gets a million bucks for being a back stabbing, liar, that took chances, stretched themselves beyond belief with stupid challenges like standing on one foot for hours, jumping across ropes, eating bugs, and God knows what else.

Your article is written as if James did something wrong during his seminar, such as playing God, sticking people in the desert, and starving them. Something did go wrong, but why are you writing the article "as if" all was wrong? Cause people paid money?

by brainwashed · 11 months ago

You write every woman should shave her head, it's very liberating- until they go home from a brainwashed seminar and face the world. WHAT IS IT, liberating, or brainwashing? And is the ONLY reason to shave your head because it's liberating? And that makes it MUCH easier to face the world, "if you're liberated versus brainwashed!" And since you're so liberated, did you offer support to the traumatized victims of the event. Did you tell them, "I did it!" And here's what happened to me as a result of it.... no, you just wrote it on paper as if they did it and now they MUST believe they are following a cult leader.

by brainwashed · 11 months ago

You've done vision quests- but with water. Are the new movie stars on survivor drinking a gallon of water on national television a day? What about their out houses? OMG, and if they have to pee while standing on one leg for hours to win a million bucks, we definitely should take a commercial and NOT let America see how MEAN we really are for NOT letting them pee. Cause GOSH that hurts, but not enough for a $1,000,000.00.

by brainwashed · 11 months ago

Ever watch Biggest Loser? Jillian YELLS, I MEAN YELLLLLSSSS at the losers. She YELLS, "You're MORE, DON'T GIVE UP!" I've even heard the losers say back, "I can't breathe." CAMERA 1 NOW SWITCHED TO CAMERA 2- wait is that person going to have a heart attack? She's making millions with her loser promises. But, since people are only paying $10.00 for a home video, and $60.00 a month for cable, she's a good person. People get hurt on that show all the time, never mind the pain people feel at home with her videos. OK, so some are medically supervised, however, her attitude is similar of that of James- She HELPS people OVERCOME-- but pushing, yelling, and making the losers feel stupid for giving up- I mean seriously, the losers talk about it on television, "I don't want to upset my trainer!" I KNEW the LOSERS were brainwashed.

by brainwashed · 11 months ago

Tylenol, Odwalla, amusement parks, drink drivers and many many many tragic accidents happen all over the world. People, if you're mad about the accident, be mad, angry, upset, but cheeze, DON'T buy into the media BULL &^%$- Go see for yourself. Visit James sometime at one of his events. It (he) won't hurt you- and meet the guy yourself. Talk to him, find out what his life mission is about. See what YOU think, not this media crap. Maybe you'll get suckered into buying an event from him, but here's how you tell if you're being brainwashed or liberated- If your brain buzzes while listening to James, you're being brainwashed. If you start to feel good about yourself, and encouraged about something in your life, you're being liberated.

Here's a tip that will save you $10,000- shave your head at least once in your life- and do a vision quest. That will cost you $3.00 MAX. Or you could just stand there on one foot for a few hours, hold your pee, and see where that gets you in life

by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago

Brainwashed: "You write every woman should shave her head, it's very liberating. And is the ONLY reason to shave your head because it's liberating? Did you tell them, "I did it!" And here's what happened to me as a result of it?"

Thank you, I should share on that. I personally shaved my head to donate my hair to Locks of Love, and I did find it to be liberating. I have not noticed any particularly negative societal results myself. Anyone other ladies here shave their heads for whatever reason and want to share about it?

by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago

James Ray's current mission in life is to make as much money as he can. His EGO has gotten SO out of control....I think he has lived through some amazing things and he has great stories and is a great motivator....but his EGO and his love of power has taken over! His teachings for the most part are good teachings....but when the teacher is exposed as a hypocrite and doesn't care about anyone but himself....well that's just something i can't continue to be a part of....

by Tonya · 11 months ago

This article is brilliant. James is arrogant and narcissistic. He is a cunning salesman at best, I have had the pleasure of meeting him and was turned off by his pompousness.

I have done so much study of cults, coercive persuasion, hypnotic inductions, scientology, mormonism, pentacostal, with personal experience in all... and our James and my conversation went directly to these things... he comes from a Preacher's Dad... and knows how to manipulate an audience... but with the passion for magic, hypnosis, and mind control tactics. He wanted to be a cult leader, he wanted to be all powerful and rich.

And he wanted it at the expense of others.

It is sad what has happened. But it will be even more sad and horrendous if he is not charged accordingly for his responsibility of his actions.

There are good principles in every teaching. But the lifting up of oneself and taking away their natural instincts is classic cult leader behavior. I personally believe that he has no remors

by Joanne · 11 months ago

If I could give my life for all the mis lead Christians who caused so many to fall away from the Lords true ,everlasting life giving power I would do it. Please.....please understand that we are all in a time of history when spiritulality is something people are so hungry for. Please try God, and His son Jesus, or go back and read His word for yourself. Don't listen to humans who will always fail.....listen to your God in heaven who loves you unconditionally....and don't believe what other misled people might tell you...I hope you can tell that I say this in love....if you need support I will be happy to help you....jbaskets@comcast.net Hoping you will hear the truth, with much love, Joanne

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