Ellen Behren's Industry Study Funded by AEG

[Whooter]

No, you didn't do that.  The mods did it 5 years ago, but you've been posting under a dozen or so names since then.  I use only one username.  You recently admitted to this but refused to list your aliases.  Sorry that upsets you so badly, that you're a proven phony, like the Berens study.

You're just taking a straight-up whipping here today and you're tired and cranky.  I sense BAWWW coming on. :waaaa:

Your still afraid, DJ, or you would have had it done.  You ran away twice.  No getting around it.

The study has been released and presented before the APA and had third party oversight.  Its fun to watch you try to bury these facts.

Famous last words Show me a study!!!... lol



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[elangraduate]

WHOOTER FUCK YOU.

[Whooter]

I find that if it is in RED it makes a stronger statement.

Try this out:

WHOOTER FUCK YOU.

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[Dr. Acula]

:timeout:

[Paul St. John]

No, you didn't do that.  The mods did it 5 years ago, but you've been posting under a dozen or so names since then.  I use only one username.  You recently admitted to this but refused to list your aliases.  Sorry that upsets you so badly, that you're a proven phony, like the Berens study.

You're just taking a straight-up whipping here today and you're tired and cranky.  I sense BAWWW coming on. :waaaa:

Your still afraid, DJ, or you would have had it done.  You ran away twice.  No getting around it.

The study has been released and presented before the APA and had third party oversight.  Its fun to watch you try to bury these facts.

Famous last words Show me a study!!!... lol



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I'll bet that arguing with DJ is kinda like your comfort zone right now..

[Whooter]

No, you didn't do that.  The mods did it 5 years ago, but you've been posting under a dozen or so names since then.  I use only one username.  You recently admitted to this but refused to list your aliases.  Sorry that upsets you so badly, that you're a proven phony, like the Berens study.

You're just taking a straight-up whipping here today and you're tired and cranky.  I sense BAWWW coming on. :waaaa:

Your still afraid, DJ, or you would have had it done.  You ran away twice.  No getting around it.

The study has been released and presented before the APA and had third party oversight.  Its fun to watch you try to bury these facts.

Famous last words Show me a study!!!... lol



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I'll bet that arguing with DJ is kinda like your comfort zone right now..

No, not really, but it keeps this thread up at the top where people can get a glimpse of the study.  DJ helps accomplish this.  People would get pissed if I just kept posting the study links over and over again just to keep the thread up at the top.

Without DJ this thread would be way back on page 6 and everyone would have forgotten about the study by now.  So its good that new readers get to see it.

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study



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[Troll Control]

We just have to keep in mind that Behrens looked at Aspen programs and Aspen has argued in court that they don't provide any treatment.  

Only treatment facilities were studied by the researchers cited by Behrens.  Aspen could not have been included since they provide no treatment and therefore Whooter's fallacious logic that Aspen falls under the other research fails the smell test.  Whooter is trying mislead people into believing that other researchers studied programs, but they didn't.  Behrens did and even her biased survey work concludes a much, much lower "success rate" than traditional treatment which is up to 80% effective.

Plus, if you look at those studies, they reference 30 to 90 day inpatient treatment facilities.  Aspen is a 2 year behavior modification program with no treatment.

I only wonder why Whooter has posted probably more than 100 times that the Aspen programs have an 80% success rate when no data suggest that at all.  Probably because of his fiduciary interest in Aspen.

Oh No!!!  Aspen doesnt provide any treatment at all?  Why didnt someone tell us?  lol  How did all these kids get better then?  Were they all brain washed?  Its been decades and the kids are still doing well went to college raising families, having reunions with their peer groups... what are they going to do when the brainwashing wears off?
Someone should send an email to the APA!!


DJ, I think you single handedly debunked the entire study



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Well, it's debunked alright, but I can't take all of the credit.  Aspen Education Group lawyers get most of it.  Here, have a look:

Aspen Education Group does not provide a therapeutic milieu that is conformative to standards, provide medically recognized therapy, medically accredited personnel, or treatment centers for mental disorder or drug abuse, Aspen's own lawyers successfully argued in Pence v. Aspen Education Group.

Good thing they got the study posted on the marketing page before this news came out!  Can't study Aspen "residential treatment centers" because none exist.  It's like studying Bigfoot or the Chupacabra. :rofl:

Still not sure how Behrens studied something that Aspen Ed says doesn't exist.  It's a mystery...

[elangraduate]

WHOOTER ( STICC Founder John Reuben ) IS ADDICTED TO ASPEN PROGRAM BROCHURES!!!  NOT GOOD, THEY HAVE MANY CHILDREN IN THEM!!! QUICK CALL MA STATE POLICE.....

 :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:

[Whooter]

Still not sure how Behrens studied something that Aspen Ed says doesn't exist.  It's a mystery...

Hmmm... me too... might be voodoo!

Lets all take a look and see how it was done:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study



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[Troll Control]

Yeah, it is a sort of voodoo, I suppose.  Since Aspen Education provides no treatment, as per their sworn statements in court, Behrens' work has to be phony.  Renowned psychologist Dr. Friedman of FSU says it's marketing material.  He studies treatment programs professionally.

[Whooter]

Yeah, it is a sort of voodoo, I suppose.  Since Aspen Education provides no treatment, as per their sworn statements in court, Behrens' work has to be phony.  Renowned psychologist Dr. Friedman of FSU says it's marketing material.  He studies treatment programs professionally.

Why not provide a link to where he says that about the study.  You lied on your last post, you shooting for 2 in a row?

Throw the link up...

Here something like this:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study



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[Troll Control]

Dr. Friedman clearly states here that:

Currently, the only information available about most of these programs comes from their own marketing efforts and there is no systematic, independently collected descriptive or outcome data on these programs.

"...no systematic, independently collected descriptive or outcome data on these programs."

None.  Zip.  Nada.  He does this research for a living.  So where's the lie?  Are you now accusing Dr. Friedman of being a liar?  I think I believe his word over yours, Whooter.  No offense, but you're just an idiot on the internet and he's a research professional and a doctor of psychology.

[Whooter]

Whooter also keeps saying "up to 80%" success, but that is not concluded by Behrens, it's concluded by other researchers using longitudinal clinical studies of residential treatment and has nothing whatsoever to do with Aspen programs or Behrens.

Though reported outcomes vary widely,
ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during
residential treatment (Curry, 1991; Curtis et al., 2001; Epstein, 2004; Hair, 2005; Wells, 1991).

So traditional treatment is proven to be more effective than Aspen programs, as Behrens readily admits right in the study.

So we can agree where you said that "longitudinal clinical studies of residential treatment" has shown 60- 80% success rates.



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[Troll Control]

I already said yes, we agree on that, with the caveat that Aspen programs, studied by Behrens, do not provide treatment as their lawyers stated under oath in court in a lawsuit and that the treatment studied by the researchers you are citing followed adolescents through 30 to 90 day traditional inpatient treatment.

Aspen programs aren't inlcuded in that data because they are not residential treatment, they are just residential, sort of like a secure juvenile facility.

Makes me wonder why Whooter never actually gives the "success rates" that Behrens claimed.  They are significantly lower than traditional inpatient treatment and take two years plus your life savings not to mention their facilities have been charged with abuse, neglect and even killing kids - the very programs Behrens used for the study!  I'd try to avoid that too if I were marketing Aspen lockups.

So, we've gone from "DJ you lied!!" to "DJ we agree" in the span of two posts.  Kinda thought that would happen once Whooter got caught with his hand in the cookie jar again. :beat:  :rofl:

[Whooter]

I already said yes, we agree on that, with the caveat that Aspen programs, studied by Behrens, do not provide treatment as their lawyers stated under oath in court in a lawsuit and that the treatment studied by the researchers you are citing followed adolescents through 30 to 90 day traditional inpatient treatment.

No, it doesnt say that.  sometimes it helps to go back to the original quotes:

Dysfunction Junction wrote:Whooter also keeps saying "up to 80%" success, but that is not concluded by Behrens, it's concluded by other researchers using longitudinal clinical studies of residential treatment and has nothing whatsoever to do with Aspen programs or Behrens.

    Behrens wrote:Though reported outcomes vary widely,
    ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during
    residential treatment (Curry, 1991; Curtis et al., 2001; Epstein, 2004; Hair, 2005; Wells, 1991).

It doesnt mention it is limited to 30-90 day programs or excludes Aspen Programs.  You may have mixed that up with another post you were reading.

So you said that "longitudinal clinical studies of residential treatment" has shown 60- 80% success rates.


Residential Treatment Outcome-Study



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