Ellen Behren's Industry Study Funded by AEG

[Whooter]

Simple question: Is Behrens' work a clinical trial?  If the answer is "no" then there is no continuing review.  If you have a problem with WIRB's compliance procedures you'll have to ask them why they only review clinical trials.

I dont believe this study was a clinical trial, but WIRBs review board oversees all types of studies as is evident in the body of the study itself as presented at the American Psychological Association (APA).

Here, lets take a look

 WIRBs' website Clinical and non-clinical :

What is an IRB and what does it have to do with research?

........The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study)  for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

So we can see that they provide oversight for both clinical and non-clinical studies.




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[Troll Control]

^^False statement^^.  I posted their compliance statement.  Clinical trials only.  You're posting subject information FAQ's which covers clinical trial subjects. The compliance statement reflects their actual work practice.  

This study was never reviewed by an IRB, never peer-reviewed and never published, that is, it's bunk.

This is what your link goes to:

Welcome to the SUBJECT INFORMATION section of the WIRB website

That's not a policy statement.  The words "clinical" or "non-clinical" DO NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE in that document.  You made it up, as usual.  

The quote I provided clearly and explicitly states "clinical trials" only.  You need a new talking point.

[Whooter]

^^False statement^^.  I posted their compliance statement.  Clinical trials only.  You're posting subject information FAQ's which covers clinical trial subjects. The compliance statement reflects their actual work practice.  

This study was never reviewed by an IRB, never peer-reviewed and never published, that is, it's bunk.

This is what your link goes to:

Welcome to the SUBJECT INFORMATION section of the WIRB website

That's not a policy statement.  The words "clinical" or "non-clinical" DO NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE in that document.  You made it up, as usual.  

The quote I provided clearly and explicitly states "clinical trials" only.  You need a new talking point.

Well lets take another look:

I checked the page again and it doesnt say this applies to just "Clinical trials" as you imply.  If you can point it out it would help.  Here is what it says:


 WIRBs' website :

What is an IRB and what does it have to do with research?

........The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study)  for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

I think it is important to stick with what WIRB states in their own processes.  I dont see where it states they only oversee clinical and not non-clinical studies.  You keep making this stuff up.  



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[Whooter]

DJ,  This company, we are discussing, (WIRB) reviews all kinds of studies, its what they do, thats why they call themselves a "Review Board".  They spell it out very clearly in their “Certificate of Approval” and also on their web page that they continue to review the studies after they are approved. (oversight)
If this only applied to just “Clinical” or “Non clinical” then they would state this.  But they don’t.  All studies are important and deserve oversight and that is what they provide as a service.  
The study received oversight.  Its all over the Review Boards’ website and paperwork.



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[Troll Control]

No, they don't.  You're wrong.

Their compliance statement, a legal document, clearly and explicitly states they review clinical trials.  AS I pointed out before, the word "non-clinical" is never mentioned, nor would it be.  Everyone in this business knows only clinical trials are reviewed.

If this only applied to just “Clinical” or “Non clinical” then they would state this. But they don’t.

Uh...yes, they do state it. Explicitly in their compliance statement that I have posted several times.  Here it is again, in case you have trouble with reading it.  Maybe you can point out where it states they review non-clinical studies for us.

WIRB Statement of Compliance

Western Institutional Review Board (WIRB) is duly constituted, has written procedures for initial and continuing review of clinical trials; prepares written minutes of convened meetings, and retains records pertaining to the review and approval process; all in compliance with requirements of FDA regulations 21 CFR Parts 50 and 56, HHS regulations 45 CFR 46, and International Conference on Harmonization (ICH) E6, Good Clinical Practice (GCP), as applicable. WIRB is registered with OHRP/FDA; our IRB registration number is IRB00000533, parent organization number is IORG0000432 (effective through September 16, 2012).

"Inititial and continuing reviews of clinical trials."  Pretty simple.  Right in their legal compliance statement.

[Whooter]

No, they don't.  You're wrong.

Their compliance statement, a legal document, clearly and explicitly states they review clinical trials.  AS I pointed out before, the word "non-clinical" is never mentioned, nor would it be.  Everyone in this business knows only clinical trials are reviewed.

If this only applied to just “Clinical” or “Non clinical” then they would state this. But they don’t.

Uh...yes, they do state it. Explicitly in their compliance statement that I have posted several times.  Here it is again, in case you have trouble with reading it.  Maybe you can point out where it states they review non-clinical studies for us.

WIRB Statement of Compliance

Western Institutional Review Board (WIRB) is duly constituted, has written procedures for initial and continuing review of clinical trials; prepares written minutes of convened meetings, and retains records pertaining to the review and approval process; all in compliance with requirements of FDA regulations 21 CFR Parts 50 and 56, HHS regulations 45 CFR 46, and International Conference on Harmonization (ICH) E6, Good Clinical Practice (GCP), as applicable. WIRB is registered with OHRP/FDA; our IRB registration number is IRB00000533, parent organization number is IORG0000432 (effective through September 16, 2012).

"Inititial and continuing reviews of clinical trials."  Pretty simple.  Right in their legal compliance statement.

Yes they comply with the requirements and regulations for initial and continuing review of clinical trials.  So their review board is able to take on Clinical trial research, but they are not restricting themselves to just clinical trials, otherwise they would not be reviewing this study.  Do you see what I mean?

The study states very clearly that it received the "Certificate of Approval" and if you read the "Certificate of Approval" from WIRB you will see that they continue to review the study after that.  They also state in their process that they continue to review the study after they approve a study (They dont say just clinical trials).  It doesn't state anywhere that this is limited to just Clinical trials.

I can provide a link to their documents and process again if you like.



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[Troll Control]

Sure it does.  It says right in my last post that they review clinical trials.  That's what they do.  That's all they do.  Nowhere does it state they review survey research.  Nobody does that.  And their Certificate of Approval process states "the certificate of approval will indicate approval of the consent forms."  That's it.  That's their policy.  

Just posting your same old made up stuff doesn't change their legal policy, Whooter.  Like I said, take it up with them.  If you want them to become the only IRB in the world to do continuing review on survey research, go ahead and pitch them your idea.  Right now though, they don't and they state that explicitly in their legal docs.

[Whooter]

Well lets take another look:

I checked the page again and it doesnt say this applies to just "Clinical trials" as you imply.  If you can point it out it would help.  Here is what it says:


 WIRBs' website :

What is an IRB and what does it have to do with research?

........The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study)  for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

I think it is important to stick with what WIRB states in their own processes.  I dont see where it states in their process that they only oversee clinical and not non-clinical studies. You keep making this stuff up.  



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[Troll Control]

Yeah...again...what you're linking to is a generic description of what an IRB does in clinical trials.  I noticed nowhere in your little quote does it say WIRB.  What the WIRB does, specifically, is this:

WIRB Statement of Compliance

Western Institutional Review Board (WIRB) is duly constituted, has written procedures for initial and continuing review of clinical trials; prepares written minutes of convened meetings, and retains records pertaining to the review and approval process; all in compliance with requirements of FDA regulations 21 CFR Parts 50 and 56, HHS regulations 45 CFR 46, and International Conference on Harmonization (ICH) E6, Good Clinical Practice (GCP), as applicable. WIRB is registered with OHRP/FDA; our IRB registration number is IRB00000533, parent organization number is IORG0000432 (effective through September 16, 2012).

Just point out where it says they do continuing review for survey studies and we can move on.

[Whooter]

WIRB is a review board!  What they do is Review Research and studies lol.  and yes, they are qualified to do Clinical studies too.  You are going to have a hard time convincing people that they dont review the studies, though.

I checked the page again and it doesnt say this applies to just "Clinical trials" as you imply.  If you can point it out it would help.  
This link is not specific to any one type of study:

 WIRBs' website :

What is an IRB and what does it have to do with research?

........The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study)  for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

I think it is important to stick with what WIRB states in their own processes.  I dont see where it states in their process that they only oversee clinical and not non-clinical studies.

If you want to believe that the "Review Board" does not review studies that is up to you.  But the study presented to the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and WIRB say differently.



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[Troll Control]

Yeah...again...what you're linking to is a generic description of what an IRB does in clinical trials.  I noticed nowhere in your little quote does it say WIRB.  What the WIRB does, specifically, is this:

WIRB Statement of Compliance

Western Institutional Review Board (WIRB) is duly constituted, has written procedures for initial and continuing review of clinical trials; prepares written minutes of convened meetings, and retains records pertaining to the review and approval process; all in compliance with requirements of FDA regulations 21 CFR Parts 50 and 56, HHS regulations 45 CFR 46, and International Conference on Harmonization (ICH) E6, Good Clinical Practice (GCP), as applicable. WIRB is registered with OHRP/FDA; our IRB registration number is IRB00000533, parent organization number is IORG0000432 (effective through September 16, 2012).

Just point out where it says they do continuing review for survey studies and we can move on.

It's right here in their compliance statement.  Just point out where their legal documents and not some generic description of "What do IRB's do?" say otherwise and we can get off this subject.  Just quote and link to the passage in their compliance statement that says "WIRB performs continuing review of surveys" and you're all set.  I think we all agree that a legal document of compliance is the final arbiter in this case.  It defines all they do.  

IRBs don't act outside their charters.  If they did, they'd be out of compliance.  Is that what you're suggesting?  They're doing this outside their legal charter as a favor or something to Canyon Research?

According to your logic, they do all things not specified in their compliance docs unless they specifically say they don't.  So in your world they do elevator inspections, too.  Oh yeah, music reviews, too.  And, bikini inspections as well."It doesn't say they don't, DJ!"

This study has no peer review and has never been published either.  Hmmmm...wonder why?  :roflmao:

Whoops!  Whooter just made up some new facts:

If you want to believe that the "Review Board" does not review studies that is up to you. But the study presented to the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and WIRB say differently.

Provide the link where this study was presented to the American Psychiatric Association, Whooter.  This ought to be interesting.  Your fibs get bigger and bigger every time you post!

[Whooter]

The paragraph you are showing us is communicating to the readers that WIRB is in compliance and meets the necessary requirements to conduct reviews of Clinical trials, DJ.  I think we all agree to that.  I have seen the clinical trials on line that they have overseen...Drexel University, University of California  etc.

But when we look at their process and website it doesnt differentiate between Clinical and non-clinical research.  It doesnt state that they treat them differently.  It explains what they do as a Review Board and that is review , approve and continue to review the studies.  Its all over the website and I have quoted their own process which isn't limited to either clinical or nonclinical research.

... Again WIRB is a Review Board and they were hired to Approve and Review the study.  No getting around that.



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[Troll Control]

Sooo...in other words...you got nothing.  Just generic FAQ's about "what IRB's do" and otherwise, zippo.  

Come on back when you find something that says "WIRB does continuing review for surveys" and you'll be gold.

You skipped this also:

Whoops!  Whooter just made up some new facts:

If you want to believe that the "Review Board" does not review studies that is up to you. But the study presented to the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and WIRB say differently.

Provide the link where this study was presented to the American Psychiatric Association, Whooter.  This ought to be interesting.  Your fibs get bigger and bigger every time you post!

I guess you made this up and that's why you're avoiding it, huh? :beat:  :rofl:

[Troll Control]

Then we can get on to these important topics:

There appears to be continued confusion around the study conducted by Ellen Behrens. While she and other industry pundits claim it was an Independent Study, nothing could be further from the truth.

1999 Behrens Clinical Director for Youth care
http://cache.zoominfo.com/cachedpage/?a ... me=Behrens

2002 Founded Canyon Research
http://canyonrc.com/experience.html

2003 - 2005 Behrens conducting surveys
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/pre ... 060817.htm
 
2004 Behrens doing Consulting for AEG
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 0626.shtml

2006 Behrens completes her survey results passed off as Independent Study
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5360.shtml
"We also tried to eliminate all students discharged from the programs before graduation because the clinical staff thought it was actually an inappropriate placement, or when they felt the program couldn't be helpful to the child. As a result, the operating assumption of the study is that the students included in the analyzed data were those who were appropriately placed."

http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5494.shtml
Comment: ....It would be helpful to know more about Dr. Behren’s research design and methodology. I presume she drew a random sample for the study; otherwise, the results cannot be generalized to the school/residential population at large.
Jerry W Clark
Dba Behavioral Services Ltd
Reno, NV

No Jerry, she didn't. Families from 9 Aspen programs participated in her "study". She and all her staff have links to Aspen programs.
http://www.natsap.org/Behrens.doc
viewtopic.php?p=215887#p215887

Jan Moss applies the "study" of 9 Aspen programs to entire industry
Disclosure Statement:  Aspen Education Group provided funding for this study.
http://www.natsap.org/Outcome%20Study.doc

2006 Behrens is a contributor to NATSAPs "Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5456.shtml

ASPEN EDUCATION GROUP APPLAUDS STUDY
(April 26, 2007) According to an article on PRNewswire, Elliot Sainer, President of Aspen Education Group (AEG), Cerritos, CA, announced "AEG is extremely pleased to learn of the very positive findings from the final phase of our industry's first long-term, multi-year clinical study on the effectiveness of private therapeutic residential programs for adolescents. AEG will continue to advocate for new industry research that will further illustrate and promote the best practices and methodologies and enhance our industry's abilities to produce positive and long-lasting results in adolescent therapeutic education."

I guess he was pleased. He paid her to present AEG in the best possible light.

Several of these programs in the survey were charged with child abuse, also.  One or more have been shut down for abusing children.  

Behrens concludes via her research that child abuse is beneficial to children.  That is really, really sick and demented!

[Whooter]

We have come a long way.  A few weeks ago many people had never heard of the Residential Treatment Outcome Study performed by Canyon Research.  They looked at close to 1,000 children and families and found that the programs studied where up to 80% effective.

Dysfunction junction and myself managed to put the spot light on this study over the past day or two and were able to nail down that the study was indeed independent and was overseen by an independent third party in the form of a Review Board (WIRB).  From WIRB’s documents:

The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study) for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

WIRB reviewed the consent forms and approved the study and issued “Certificates of approval” as was pointed out in the study itself and presented to the APA.
Here are some supportive links and information as we stand today:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.

The Western Institutional Review Board approved consent/assent forms and issued Certificates of Approval for the study.
Here are copies of their "Certificate of Approval" forms
Sample 1
Sample 2

at the bottom of page 2 it states:

Federal regulations require that WIRB conduct continuing review of approved research. You will receive Continuing
Review Report forms from WIRB. These reports must be returned even though your study may not have started.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** As a disclaimer Dysfunction Junction of fornits feels that WIRB (Review Board) was involved in the study but never provided oversight.



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