Aspen Education Group deceptively markets short term invalid

[Whooter]

I believe Aspen is suing the Pence's for their nuisances law suit and for wasting the state's and courts time.  There child was never allowed back into another Aspen program again and ended up in jail.

I guess the old saying...dead insane or in jail does have some merit after all.  I feel for the kid who never applied himself and never got the help he needed, now it is too late.

[Ursus]

I believe Aspen is suing the Pence's for their nuisances law suit and for wasting the state's and courts time.  There child was never allowed back into another Aspen program again and ended up in jail.

I guess the old saying...dead insane or in jail does have some merit after all.  I feel for the kid who never applied himself and never got the help he needed, now it is too late.

I would say that is an interesting choice of words, coming from you, Whooter.

[Whooter]

I believe Aspen is suing the Pence's for their nuisances law suit and for wasting the state's and courts time.  There child was never allowed back into another Aspen program again and ended up in jail.

I guess the old saying...dead insane or in jail does have some merit after all.  I feel for the kid who never applied himself and never got the help he needed, now it is too late.

I would say that is an interesting choice of words, coming from you, Whooter.

I couldnt resist, its an old saying here on fornits that many make fun of..... and seeing that the kid is in jail after breaking his contract with North Star the comment seemed appropriate and a little ironic so I tossed it in.  Not offense intended just a chuckle.

[Troll Control]

Lawsuit clearly states the defense lawyers are from "Aspen Education Group" and those lawyers made the case that Aspen programs offer no therapy or treatment.  I take them at their word over the poster here obsessed with trying to turn the truth upside-down (aka TheWho, Whooter, John D. Reuben, et al).

Why do we need TheWho's opinion on this when the court record shows Aspen provides no treatment?

I believe the court records, not some hack troll from STICC (an Aspen feeder group).

Aspen's program also says that all couselors are therapists on their website, indicating legal licensure, but in court they said their counselors are not therapists and that they are unlicensed.  They either lied in court or are advertising falsely.  Either way, they can't be trusted to tell the truth to parents.

And, if the 'counselor' was working on a 'treatment team' with a 'licensed therapist' then that would mean that the counselor was 'under the supervision of a licensed therapist' which Aspen denied at the hearing.  Apparently, this 'therapist' had no ties to the 'counselor' or the 'treatment team' assigned to the boy.

I see your point.  One way or the other, they've deceived the parents or the court.  They told the parents one thing and the court another.  Both can't be true.

[RMA Survivor]

A healthy teenager going out of his way to look in to a girls dormitory.  Sounds like a normal teen to me.  Maybe he wasn't there long enough to get so messed up he couldn't just be normal.  Yeah, he went to juvenile hall, but who cares?  I got caught having sex and got to stay.  Breaking the contract with the program?  What the fuck is that?  The agreements and rules are always one-sided anyway.  Maybe because they ban anything related to sex and relationships with the opposite sex at these places, his hormones finally got the better of him.  What a crime for a teen to commit.  


And as for you using it as a source of humor, nobody laughs.  You just aren't witty enough.  Everything you comment on is so dry and lacking in substance, even your attempts at humor.  I suggest you go to college and take some human relations courses to learn how to communicate appropriately with others, particularly adults.

[Whooter]

A healthy teenager going out of his way to look in to a girls dormitory.  Sounds like a normal teen to me.  Maybe he wasn't there long enough to get so messed up he couldn't just be normal.  Yeah, he went to juvenile hall, but who cares?  I got caught having sex and got to stay.  Breaking the contract with the program?  What the fuck is that?  The agreements and rules are always one-sided anyway.  Maybe because they ban anything related to sex and relationships with the opposite sex at these places, his hormones finally got the better of him.  What a crime for a teen to commit.

The courts did not agree with you.  There are other kids in the school to consider.  Matthew broke into the office area.  This is beyond a normal teen prank, it was the final straw on a long list of problems with this kid.

[RMA Survivor]

What do you know about this kid and his problems?  It was clearly a prank done by a healthy and curious teenager in the middle of puberty and a highly restrictive school that bans social contact on a deep level with members of the opposite sex.  Did he break the law?  Yes.  And nobody cares.  I shoplifted 147 Star Wars figures back in 1977 and got caught.  Did I break the law?  Yes.  Does anyone care?  No.  It's just something kids do.  You can't really add it on to some imaginary list of troubles this kid has.  It certainly doesn't measure up to issues like severe drug use, being molested, depression.  

The issue is whether Aspen Group are treatment programs and whether unlicensed staff are giving professional level counseling and treatment to teens, which is against the law.  As usual, you prefer to take the conversation away from the original topic and focus on the most banal, insignificant details.  You seem to be unable to stay focused on the actual issues or to even understand the issues being discussed, so why don't you sit back and just watch as the adults in the room talk, okay junior?

[Whooter]

What do you know about this kid and his problems?  It was clearly a prank done by a healthy and curious teenager in the middle of puberty and a highly restrictive school that bans social contact on a deep level with members of the opposite sex.  Did he break the law?  Yes.  And nobody cares.  I shoplifted 147 Star Wars figures back in 1977 and got caught.  Did I break the law?  Yes.  Does anyone care?  No.  It's just something kids do.  You can't really add it on to some imaginary list of troubles this kid has.  It certainly doesn't measure up to issues like severe drug use, being molested, depression.  

The issue is whether Aspen Group are treatment programs and whether unlicensed staff are giving professional level counseling and treatment to teens, which is against the law.  As usual, you prefer to take the conversation away from the original topic and focus on the most banal, insignificant details.  You seem to be unable to stay focused on the actual issues or to even understand the issues being discussed, so why don't you sit back and just watch as the adults in the room talk, okay junior?

Why do you want to control the topic all the time.  I didnt bring this up.  The child was clearly disruptive, broke into the office area and as a last resort the school notified the police and had him removed.  He got kicked out and went to jail.  You are the one trying to make it look like it was the schools fault.  Then the parents wanted their money back and got pissed and tried to sue.  Of course they tried to add on as many charges as they could think of to make their case.  It is obviously money driven and a shake down.  Everyone here knows that, you just cant admit it.

[RMA Survivor]

What do you know about this kid and his problems?  It was clearly a prank done by a healthy and curious teenager in the middle of puberty and a highly restrictive school that bans social contact on a deep level with members of the opposite sex.  Did he break the law?  Yes.  And nobody cares.  I shoplifted 147 Star Wars figures back in 1977 and got caught.  Did I break the law?  Yes.  Does anyone care?  No.  It's just something kids do.  You can't really add it on to some imaginary list of troubles this kid has.  It certainly doesn't measure up to issues like severe drug use, being molested, depression.  

The issue is whether Aspen Group are treatment programs and whether unlicensed staff are giving professional level counseling and treatment to teens, which is against the law.  As usual, you prefer to take the conversation away from the original topic and focus on the most banal, insignificant details.  You seem to be unable to stay focused on the actual issues or to even understand the issues being discussed, so why don't you sit back and just watch as the adults in the room talk, okay junior?

Why do you want to control the topic all the time.  I didnt bring this up.  The child was clearly disruptive, broke into the office area and as a last resort the school notified the police and had him removed.  He got kicked out and went to jail.  You are the one trying to make it look like it was the schools fault.  Then the parents wanted their money back and got pissed and tried to sue.  Of course they tried to add on as many charges as they could think of to make their case.  It is obviously money driven and a shake down.  Everyone here knows that, you just cant admit it.

There you go again with the circle-logic.  And now trying to simply reverse my charge against you of arguing the most insignificant details as you are once more.  I said the child broke the law.  You are now repeating this without need.  I said he went to jail. You are repeating this as well.  I never said once that it was the schools fault, so now you are making a fallacious argument because I never said it.  As to whether the parents got pissed and tried to sue, that appears obvious, so why say so?  And that they tried to add on ass many charges as they could think of to make their case, most people do?  But again, you'd be too dumb to know that.  That is is obviously a money-driven shakedown is only likely to be partially true.  That they are hoping to protect their son seems likely another motivation.  Perhaps also that they have legitimate concerns that their son received unlicensed therapy and treatment which they were led to believe would not be the case due to potentially false advertising and misleading statements they believe they were given by Aspen Group, but you are not insightful enough to come to these kind of conclusions on your own.  As to "Everyone knowing this"?  I don't find, based on other peoples posts in this thread and others, that I can agree with you.  

See you again in four minutes...

[Whooter]

Exactly, so the parents never had a problem with the school or the help and therapy he was getting until after the school kicked the kid out.  then they tried to build as much of a case as they can to get their money back by saying he didnt receive the correct therapy.  Saying they broke HIPAA laws by telling the police he broke into the office and spied on other people etc.... all this was added on to try to gain money.  So we positively know the kid wasnt abused in the slightest or they would have added that on if there was even a hint of him missing a meal or doing push ups... see what I am saying.
So yeah they are going to look into the HIPAA laws and the contract they signed and the therapy he received but it all stems from the kid getting kicked out not from poor services being rendered.  If they can find some dirt somewhere maybe they can hold the school ransom for the cash they are out of.

Big difference, but you dont seem to be able to see it because it goes against your preconceived judgement against programs

[RMA Survivor]

Who said anything about the Pence family claiming their son was abused?  You really do just make this stuff up in your head, don't you?  And your statements suggest you are the spokesperson and personal confidant to the Pence Family and know their true intentions.  Your mind is a howling wilderness unable to form once cohesive, logical statement, always devoid of facts but always full of personal opinions.  And try to say that now and then.  That something is your opinion and not fact.  It might make you sound more intelligent.  Suggesting you know the Pence family intentions, from a factual standpoint is really bizarre.

[Whooter]

Who said anything about the Pence family claiming their son was abused?

If you would read more here instead of posting you would know that many posters think programs (all programs)abuse the kids or that they are abusive.  My point is if there was even the slightest hint of abuse the Pences would have added that on too.

This further reinforces my position that not all programs are abusive.

[RMA Survivor]

Yes, it may reinforce your point since you don't agree with others about programs being abusive.  But again, your poorly constructed argument is as weak as ever.  Obviously, being a survivor (You might have noticed that is part of my moniker) I firmly believe these programs are all abusive.  And because I post here, as a survivor, I am already clued in to this fact that most see these programs the same way and that you are the minority here.  And yes, had the parents determined their son was abused and felt that they could have proven this in a court of law I am certain they would have added it to their lawsuit.  What parent wouldn't?  But the fact seems to be, they do on some level believe their son received illegal, mental health treatment, which can be argued is abusive by itself, no matter what form it took.  Thus, logic suggests they are indeed suing for abuse, just allowing it, through the law and legalese to take on different form.

[Troll Control]

Bottom line is that the kid was allowed to wander the facility completely unsupervised by any Aspen staff.  this is not a 'secure and structured' environment to beging with.  Then he was arrested and put in jail because of the program's actions in handling the behavior they said they could 'cure' when the parents enrolled him.  So they failed to provide the appropriate environment and they failed to offer any therapy services, then to top it off, they left the kid in worse condition than when he arrived - untreated AND in jail AT THE PROGRAM'S REQUEST.  

This is a travesty at many different levels, and unfortunately, this so-called 'outcome study' is bogus because it doesn't take into account at all the 50-65% of kids like Matt Pence that never 'graduate' their programs.  These palces have a 50-65% failure rate RIGHT OFF THE TOP.

[RMA Survivor]

And the other 35% to 50% is the same sock puppets repeatedly posting as anonymous or guests claiming they had a wonderful time and it was the miracle cure they needed.