Author Topic: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program  (Read 20783 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2009, 01:12:53 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"

That's what I've been saying.  they either lied to the court or lie in their advertising.  If Metthew was treated by a licensed therapist, HIPAA applies and Aspen is fucked.  Plus they still have to deal with the rest of the claims.  If there is no licensed therapist, then they are practicing therapy without a license, which is a crime, and a serious one at that. Either way, they can't have it both ways.  They lied.

What had happened is Harless spoke to the police about Matthew breaking into the schools offices and climbing onto the roof to watch the girls change their clothes.  Harless is the director of the school and therefore isnt covered by HIPAA laws since she isnt licensed nor working for a licensed person.  When the police arrived Matthew disclosed what he had done to the police also.  Matthew broke the schools contract and was arrested by the police and removed from the property.

The court had this to say:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/b]

Court Records

Hope this helps
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2009, 01:30:15 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"

Yes, a member of his "treatment team" (whatever that means) was a therapist.

Well at least we have established that North Star provides licensed therapists and that they provide Treatment via a treatment team.  Now the next step is to see if Matthew Pence was being seen by one.

Then Northstar would be a covered entity.  It sounds like a con was put before the court.  You're screwed any which way you flim-flam.

That's what I've been saying.  they either lied to the court or lie in their advertising.  If Metthew was treated by a licensed therapist, HIPAA applies and Aspen is fucked.  Plus they still have to deal with the rest of the claims.  If there is no licensed therapist, then they are practicing therapy without a license, which is a crime, and a serious one at that. Either way, they can't have it both ways.  They lied.

Yes, these unlicensed counselors are practicing therapy illegally.  They should be arrested and tried for this serious crime.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2009, 02:05:22 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"

That's what I've been saying.  they either lied to the court or lie in their advertising.  If Metthew was treated by a licensed therapist, HIPAA applies and Aspen is fucked.  Plus they still have to deal with the rest of the claims.  If there is no licensed therapist, then they are practicing therapy without a license, which is a crime, and a serious one at that. Either way, they can't have it both ways.  They lied.

What had happened is Harless spoke to the police about Matthew breaking into the schools offices and climbing onto the roof to watch the girls change their clothes.  Harless is the director of the school and therefore isnt covered by HIPAA laws since she isnt licensed nor working for a licensed person.  When the police arrived Matthew disclosed what he had done to the police also.  Matthew broke the schools contract and was arrested by the police and removed from the property.

The court had this to say:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/b]

Court Records

Hope this helps


Your link isnt working.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2009, 02:06:08 PM »
Quote from: "John D. Reuben"
Harless is the director of the school and therefore isnt covered by HIPAA laws since she isnt licensed nor working for a licensed person.
Quote from: "John D. Reuben"

Well at least we have established that North Star provides licensed therapists and that they provide Treatment via a treatment team.  Now the next step is to see if Matthew Pence was being seen by one.

The program itself is what has to be determined as a covered entity, not the individuals.  My God, if staff without licenses weren't bound by HIPAA...Jesus Christ!

Quote from: "John D. Reuben"
Hope this helps

Doesn't help you.  See above contradictory posts by Mr. Reuben.  The guy is digging Aspen's grave.  Shouldn't Aspen send word to John D. Reuben to shut the hell up?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2009, 02:08:50 PM »
Hey Reuben.  If Aspen provides no treatment and their records aren't covered by HIPAA, can we get copies of Mikey's records from ASR?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2009, 02:25:15 PM »
Quote
The program itself is what has to be determined as a covered entity, not the individuals. My God, if staff without licenses weren't bound by HIPAA...Jesus Christ!

The courts dont agree with you.  If you are not working for a licensed employee of the entity then you are not given HIPAA training.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2009, 02:31:34 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
The program itself is what has to be determined as a covered entity, not the individuals. My God, if staff without licenses weren't bound by HIPAA...Jesus Christ!

The courts dont agree with you.  If you are not working for a licensed employee of the entity then you are not given HIPAA training.

Funny you say that, because the employees of Northstar WERE given HIPAA training, according to the court document you keep posting.  This lead the court to conclude that because the employees are receiving HIPAA training, the facility believes itself subject to HIPAA rules.  And you're wrong about how HIPAA works.  It's not an individual thing.  It covers "entities" (i.e. businesses) that deal with any electronic records of clients receiving care.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2009, 02:57:46 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
The program itself is what has to be determined as a covered entity, not the individuals. My God, if staff without licenses weren't bound by HIPAA...Jesus Christ!

The courts dont agree with you.  If you are not working for a licensed employee of the entity then you are not given HIPAA training.

Funny you say that, because the employees of Northstar WERE given HIPAA training, according to the court document you keep posting.  This lead the court to conclude that because the employees are receiving HIPAA training, the facility believes itself subject to HIPAA rules.  And you're wrong about how HIPAA works.  It's not an individual thing.  It covers "entities" (i.e. businesses) that deal with any electronic records of clients receiving care.

Of course they were, all businesses with licensed therapists have to have HIPAA training.  But not all the employees or staff need to be trained or abide by the HIPAA laws.  Only those who report to a licensed medical person (Therapist) need HIPAA Training.

So this says that they have licensed therapists or they wouldnt need the HIPAA training.
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2009, 03:17:40 PM »
Not sure I would claim Therapists (Plural).  That Aspen might now have a single person with a degree is plausible.  However, the fact that the bulk of the staff on the campus are not licensed as therapists or counselors should be a wake up call for the parents.  These people have absolutely no business or training to be working with children on mental health issues or anything else.  One is either trained, or a hack.  You can't be both in the same area.  

It is clear from reading the court documents that indeed this was technically about Northstar and not necessarily about Aspen as a whole.  However, without further information nobody can claim that Aspen as a whole is all licensed therapists.  That each campus might have one single person with a degree in this field does not explain away that the bulk of those who are supposedly "treating" students and giving "counseling" are in fact not trained or licensed to do so.  This "life experience" crap where staff claim that because they used drugs or were alcoholics and therefore are entitled and experienced enough to give credible counseling and therapy to teens, is nonsense.  

I think most parents are duped in to thinking that they are sending their child away to a program that is legitimate and using fully trained and licensed staff to help their children, when in fact we have seen this is not the case at any of these programs.  What we do see are hacks, who have worked in the system for years, founding their own programs with no experience or formal training or licensing who may hire a single trained person so they can pose as somehow legitimate, but in general they usually don't hire such people.  And just because NorthStar or Aspen have a single person there who is licensed, unless that one individual is doing all the real therapy and counseling work, the teens are getting mixed treatment, which does not help.  

The secretary in a law office might have some knowledge as a legal hack by virtue of hearing about the law all day, but this person is not qualified, nor would it be legal, for this person to offer any sort of legal advice whatsoever.  And generally such secretaries and assistants in such offices actually have college credits from legal classes, specific to the work they are performing.  But without the license, and without the law degree it is wrong and illegal for them to offer even advice on matters pertaining to law, let alone practicing it.  Therefore, for Aspen or any of these other places full of hacks, they have no business messing with teens who are fragile and in need of serious care and not that provided by hacks.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2009, 03:19:39 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"

That's what I've been saying.  they either lied to the court or lie in their advertising.  If Metthew was treated by a licensed therapist, HIPAA applies and Aspen is fucked.  Plus they still have to deal with the rest of the claims.  If there is no licensed therapist, then they are practicing therapy without a license, which is a crime, and a serious one at that. Either way, they can't have it both ways.  They lied.

What had happened is Harless spoke to the police about Matthew breaking into the schools offices and climbing onto the roof to watch the girls change their clothes.  Harless is the director of the school and therefore isnt covered by HIPAA laws since she isnt licensed nor working for a licensed person.  When the police arrived Matthew disclosed what he had done to the police also.  Matthew broke the schools contract and was arrested by the police and removed from the property.

The court had this to say:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/b]

Court Records

Hope this helps



Except Aspen Education Group does not sell North Star Center as a “school.” It sells it as a “residential program” offering psychological “intervention.” But it uses semantical vagueries you and contractual small print to shield itself from responsibility for failing to meet the standards expected of providers of treatment.


http://www.northstarcenter.com/
Quote from: "NorthStar Center of Aspen Education Group CRC Health"
NorthStar is one of the first young adult programs in the country, founded in 1991, which paved the way for many other programs to serve the various needs of this population. Our experience has shown that young adults usually overestimate their ability to reintegrate into the community after an effective primary or wilderness intervention. At NorthStar, we put our emphasis at the forefront of our program into teaching skills to manage recovery and independent living. We gradually introduce the student to the freedom they desire and help them learn from the challenges this presents.
At NorthStar, students will:
•   [b[Start with a tighter structure as they begin to apply new tools and gradually earn their way to more personal freedom. [/b]
•   Deepen their understanding of recovery from substance use, continue to solidify their commitment to recovery and learn specific tools to help them stay clean and sober.
•   Learn a variety of coping tools using Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) skills in addition to 12-step recovery to help them manage emotions.
•   Use individual and group therapy to explore past emotional issues which contributed to substance use and personal decline.
•   Begin to internalize a sense of personal structure that leads to consistent motivation and responsible action.
•   Interact daily in a community of peers where personal integrity is developed and supported throughout the program.
•   Explore interests and life goals and establish a path to accomplish those goals through academic preparation, advisement and coaching.
•   Continue to improve their ability to engage parents on an adult-to-adult level.
•   Learn how to have fun while sober and balance work and play!

Sounds like a "treatment center,” right? (P.S. Note, NS writes  "in their experience young adults" find it hard to reintegrate into society after "wilderness intervention." Hmmm. That statement is in direct opposition of the "findings" of Ellen Behren's  "reports" that detainees reintegrated terrifically after abduction and forced marches)

Harless was director of Pences “treatment” and  highest ranking member of his “residential treatment staff.”

http://www.northstarcenter.com/
Quote from: "Aspen Education Group NorthStar Center CRC health"
Residential Treatment Staff ... Program Director

It was to Harless that Mathew was expected to make his “confessions.”
Regular confessions were necessary for him  to move through the “phases” of the program.

Pence and family were under the understanding that the groups he attended, his “counseling” with her, his individual therapy, the process of moving through “phases” was part of his “treatment” and he was attending a "treatment program."  

However, Aspen Education group argued that the “phases,” the group and individual counseling it offered in no way legally qualify as treatment, that it was in no way a treatment program, and, therefore, in no way liable for harless’s police notification.

Quote from: "pence v aspen education group crc health"
Expert witnesses disagree as to whether Matthew Pence's list of confessions was part of a therapeutic treatment program, whether NorthStar is a drug and alcohol or mental health therapy program, and whether NorthStar personnel violated a standard of care applicable to counselors and therapists. See Dr. Larsen's Aff. (for defendants), Dr. Huffine's Aff. (for plaintiffs). Disputed issues of material fact preclude summary judgment for Matthew Pence or defendants on the third claim for negligent provision of mental health treatment.


Aspen Education Group is running a scam of gargantuan proportions
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2009, 03:53:56 PM »
I guess what I want to know is whether all the claims of the parents were ruled upon in the court case?

It appears to me that the question of whether unlicensed staff were offering treatment and professional counseling was taking place at North Star and whether the parents have a legitimate claim that North Star falsely advertised regarding this matter.

What the case seemed to cover was the question of whether contacting the police was a violation of patient/doctor privilege and the court merely ruled that because the specific person who made the police report was not licensed, the report was legal as they were not covered by the privilege.  And it mentioned that one of the students "team" was in fact licensed, but was not involved in making the report.

But as the poster above mentioned, it is the vagueness of North Star and Aspen's brochures and in communications with parents looking for a place to send their children that parents are duped in to believing that these are real treatment facilities and that their children will receive real, professional and licensed mental health treatment and counseling for their problems.  And as this family now has learned, that answer is no.  Their kids are actually in two programs.  One is not a licensed treatment program, and the other is, but plays only a minor and legal role to avoid accountability.  Yes the students might occasionally meet with a real person licensed and trained to provide therapy and counseling. However the bulk of the program is about unlicensed staff and the "other" part of the program where students are forced to confess things and be subjected to humiliation and other deprivations, but because Aspen and North Star can claim this is not actually treatment but merely a "program", this second and clearly separate function is cleared from legal action.  

Part of winning a lawsuit would entail "reasonable belief" in the fact that most people who read such a brochure as Aspen and North Star and these other Teen Prison Camps put out, would reasonably believe that the ENTIRE program is a fully licensed and trained treatment facility offering professional counseling and mental health care.  And if the parents can make such a case, North Star could be in serious trouble.  Using vague descriptions only works so long.  A real lawyer could build a case to show that deception was used and that harm was done.  Just because the first portion of the case showed that it was legal to make a police report does not answer the question, as far as I can see, as to whether North Star is guilty of false advertising and engaging in treatment by unlicensed and untrained staff.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2009, 05:25:40 PM »
Quote
It appears to me that the question of whether unlicensed staff were offering treatment and professional counseling was taking place at North Star and whether the parents have a legitimate claim that North Star falsely advertised regarding this matter.

Something to consider:  
The confusion may be that there is an option to have an individual therapist.  Some of the programs offer individual therapy for those kids who need it and/or are on meds which require follow up.  If you choose this option (or if it is necessary) then the therapist is billed separately and some places have you pay the therapist directly to their office if they are not part of the staff.
If the therapist who performs the individual therapy is on Aspen Staff then the contract may be worded differently.  So what we need to know is what Northstar offers and if the Pences chose the individual therapy option (if that is how it was set up.)
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2009, 05:37:55 PM »
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
I guess what I want to know is whether all the claims of the parents were ruled upon in the court case?
No, they were not.

As I mentioned previously, whether it was this thread or one of the other ones discussing this case, I was unable to find any further mention of it despite extensive searching. The case as it stands right now, i.e., what has been posted, is a summary judgment requested by both parties in the hopes of foregoing a jury trial.

The judge ruled on two of the five claims. The remaining three (which include the HIPAA issues as well as punitive damages sought) are assumed to continue to a jury trial.

It's possible that this case is stashed in one of those pay-per-view or subscriber archives such as WestLaw. It's also possible that it hasn't come to trial yet. And it's also possible that Aspen may have offered some kind of settlement to prevent said damning issues from seeing any more light of day.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2009, 06:49:06 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
I guess what I want to know is whether all the claims of the parents were ruled upon in the court case?
No, they were not.

As I mentioned previously, whether it was this thread or one of the other ones discussing this case, I was unable to find any further mention of it despite extensive searching. The case as it stands right now, i.e., what has been posted, is a summary judgment requested by both parties in the hopes of foregoing a jury trial.

The judge ruled on two of the five claims. The remaining three (which include the HIPAA issues as well as punitive damages sought) are assumed to continue to a jury trial.

It's possible that this case is stashed in one of those pay-per-view or subscriber archives such as WestLaw. It's also possible that it hasn't come to trial yet. And it's also possible that Aspen may have offered some kind of settlement to prevent said damning issues from seeing any more light of day.


NO.

What would be great to get is Aspen Education Group's expert witness, Larson's depostion for Aspen that they are in any legal sense a treatment center for drug or mental disorders, and that the "phases" Aspen offers are in no legal sense of the term "therapeutic."

Can you track that down


III. Third Claim - Negligent Provision of Mental Health Tx

Quote from: "aspen education group argues its center is not not a therapeutic treatment program"
Expert witnesses disagree as to whether Matthew Pence's list of confessions was part of a therapeutic treatment program, whether NorthStar is a drug and alcohol or mental health therapy program, and whether NorthStar personnel violated a standard of care applicable to counselors and therapists. See Dr. Larsen's Aff. (for defendants), Dr. Huffine's Aff. (for plaintiffs). Disputed issues of material fact preclude summary judgment for Matthew Pence or defendants on the third claim for negligent provision of mental health treatment.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2009, 07:36:16 PM »
fixed
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
I guess what I want to know is whether all the claims of the parents were ruled upon in the court case?
No, they were not.

As I mentioned previously, whether it was this thread or one of the other ones discussing this case, I was unable to find any further mention of it despite extensive searching. The case as it stands right now, i.e., what has been posted, is a summary judgment requested by both parties in the hopes of foregoing a jury trial.

The judge ruled on two of the five claims. The remaining three (which include the HIPAA issues as well as punitive damages sought) are assumed to continue to a jury trial.

It's possible that this case is stashed in one of those pay-per-view or subscriber archives such as WestLaw. It's also possible that it hasn't come to trial yet. And it's also possible that Aspen may have offered some kind of settlement to prevent said damning issues from seeing any more light of day.


NO.

What would be great to get is Aspen Education Group's expert witness, Larson's deposition for Aspen in which he posited that they are NOT in any legal sense a treatment center for drug or mental disorders, and that the "phases" Aspen offers are in no legal sense of the term "therapeutic."

Can you track that down?


III. Third Claim - Negligent Provision of Mental Health Tx

Quote from: "aspen education group argues its center is not not a therapeutic treatment program"
Expert witnesses disagree as to whether Matthew Pence's list of confessions was part of a therapeutic treatment program, whether NorthStar is a drug and alcohol or mental health therapy program, and whether NorthStar personnel violated a standard of care applicable to counselors and therapists. See Dr. Larsen's Aff. (for defendants), Dr. Huffine's Aff. (for plaintiffs). Disputed issues of material fact preclude summary judgment for Matthew Pence or defendants on the third claim for negligent provision of mental health treatment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »