Wilderness: the answer for some troubled teens

[DannyB II]

I think a kid going camping with their family would probably be effective in helping to grow the familial bonds.  "The Wilderness" in and of itself has no intrinsic therapeutic value.  

"Wilderness Programs" have never been subjected to research studies and therefore nobody can make the claim that they are "effective" at helping anyone with anything.  Anecdotal evidence suggests they could be anywhere in the range of having no effect to being harmful or deadly.  We'd have to see some sort of rigorous examination by an independent researcher before we can make any real judgment.

Right now, suffice it to say, "wilderness programs," like Aspen Education's Sagewalk (shut down for murdering a child, according to the sheriff), have maimed and killed children in their care and, as such, in the absence of any evidence of their effectiveness, should be strictly avoided.

So according to Dysfunction Junction the wilderness has no intrinsic therapeutic value at all. He read some books and because some folks said this he felt, well what the hay it fits into my mind set.
DJ your a bigger freaking clown then I ever thought you could be, your off somewhere right now blazing across a universe no one knows about. Maybe it is called "Extremista". Ya know there is no rational reason to your posts anymore, your just spewing hate.
Wilderness has no value, DJ next time your in the Catskills, I want you to sit on the highest point from just before sun up on the first day and just after sun up on the second day and if you are not impacted by the therapeutic value of this, well then I don't know what to say. Find a ocean and sit quietly for hours, go to Montana and see feel the big sky ....ect.

[DannyB II]

I found this article very interesting.  And deeply disturbing.  Just goes to show that the marketing spin is vastly different from the harsh realities these kids face when left alone in the wilderness with untrained and often sadistic program staff...

Media Release - Sheriff recommends death be identified a homicide at Sagewalk (OR, Sagewalk)
Tuesday, March 30 2010 Deputy Sheriff Chuck Pore    .

The Lake County Sheriff's Office has concluded its primary investigation into the death of Sergey Blashchishen in northern Lake County on August 28th, 2009.


Sergey was attending SageWalk The Wilderness School when he died while participating in his first program hike. Findings, investigative opinions, and recommendations have been prepared in a criminal investigations report.

This report will now shortly be submitted to the Lake County District Attorney. Any recommendations of the report, including any recommendations for prosecution, are not binding on the District Attorney. Due to the size and complexity of the investigation and the report itself, it is not expected that any District Attorney opinion or charging decision will be forthcoming for a period of time.

Although the Department of Human Services Office of Investigations and Training conducted much of their investigation in cooperation with the Lake County Sheriff's Office, the separate investigations have separate responsibilities. The report of the State Medical Examiner has not been released. It is not expected that the findings of either DHS or the ME will be in conflict with the Sheriff's Office conclusions, but that when released, their findings will be based upon the mission and parameters of the respective agency. Additional support was provided during this investigation by the Oregon State Police, the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office, and the United States Bureau of Land Management. The Lake County Sheriff's Office is grateful to all persons, named and unnamed, who have contributed their assistance during this investigation.

Deputy Sheriff Chuck Poré has been the primary case investigator for the Lake County Sheriff's Office and is the report author. This investigation has included interviews of persons who were on the hike with Sergey Blashchishen and witnessed the incident and his death; interview of persons not on the hike but familiar with the program practices and procedures; and review of hundreds of documents from the Aspen Education Group and SageWalk The Wilderness School program. The investigation of the Lake County Sheriff's Office has made a recommendation that the manner of Sergey Blashchishen's death be identified as a homicide.[/i]

The prosecution of criminal charges have been recommended for the corporations responsible for the program which resulted in Sergey's death. At the time of his death, Sergey was on a program hike administered by several corporate employees known as field instructors. Although most were medically trained, investigation identified issues which may have brought medical practices into conflict with program practices, and this conflict having a significant impact on Sergey Blashchishen's death.

No recommendation has been made in the cases of the individual field instructors but a District Attorney review has been requested. The media patience extended during the course of this investigation has been admirable. It is asked that you continue the same courtesy to the Office of the District Attorney as the District Attorney begins this next part of the investigation.

 :suicide:  :poison:  :eek:

WOW for the one hundredth time were going to post this, ya it looks so much more sensational when you throw in "murder" DJ. I wonder if anyone was ever charged for murder?? Just asking.

[Troll Control]

The sheriff recommended the death be ruled a "homicide."  Do you know what a "homicide" is, Danny?  It's a murder.  The sheriff characterized this kid's painful and avoidable death as murder.  It was referred to the DA as a murder.  

homicide, def. - "the killing of a human being by another human being"

Aspen Education programs murder kids and Sergey probably won't be the last of them.  

First you apologize for child abusers, now you apologize for murderers.  How low can you go, Danny?  How low?  Killing in the name of therapy, Danny?  That seems right to you somehow?  

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.  It's anathema, Danny.  Pure anathema.

[Whooter]

The sheriff recommended the death be ruled a "homicide."  Do you know what a "homicide" is, Danny?  It's a murder.  The sheriff characterized this kid's painful and avoidable death as murder.  It was referred to the DA as a murder.  

homicide, def. - "the killing of a human being by another human being"

Aspen Education programs murder kids and Sergey probably won't be the last of them.  

First you apologize for child abusers, now you apologize for murderers.  How low can you go, Danny?  How low?  Killing in the name of therapy, Danny?  That seems right to you somehow?  

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.  It's anathema, Danny.  Pure anathema.

Referred as,  recommended, characterized… they are all descriptive words but what was the outcome?  What was determined?
Were people charged and convicted for murder?

We should try to view the facts, if we can, before concluding anything.



...

[SUCK IT]

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.

Such vivid and colorful imagery, when talking about children no less. Dysfunction is showing his master he is willing to become a full member of the cult by adopting the harsh and disgusting langauge of the fornits cult. This is why you see dysfunction posting such phrases as the one quoted above, and claiming that all treatment programs "rape, mindfuck and murder children". How many children did you "mindfuck" dysfunction, did they pay you well for it? I'm sure your admin cult leader will give you a gold star for using the approved of terminology here, you can put the gold star on your shotgun!

[Troll Control]

I think there's a car at the drive thruough, SUCK IT.  They're going to need "some fries with that."  Get on it, boy.  Or did you lose that job already?  Don't worry, your unaccredited, self-serve program education ought to qualify you to work any drive through you want.

Funny how you and Whooter both said your goodbyes, told us you wouldn't be back, but couldn't keep your word and came right back anyway.  The term "sockpuppet" comes to mind. :roflmao:

[Troll Control]

The sheriff recommended the death be ruled a "homicide."  Do you know what a "homicide" is, Danny?  It's a murder.  The sheriff characterized this kid's painful and avoidable death as murder.  It was referred to the DA as a murder.  

homicide, def. - "the killing of a human being by another human being"

Aspen Education programs murder kids and Sergey probably won't be the last of them.  

First you apologize for child abusers, now you apologize for murderers.  How low can you go, Danny?  How low?  Killing in the name of therapy, Danny?  That seems right to you somehow?  

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.  It's anathema, Danny.  Pure anathema.

Referred as,  recommended, characterized… they are all descriptive words but what was the outcome?  What was determined?
Were people charged and convicted for murder?

We should try to view the facts, if we can, before concluding anything.



...

It was sourced straight from the news article.

Once more, the case has been referred to the DA as a homicide.  The wheels of justice grind slowly, so we'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out.  But, as we all know, police don't just charge people with homicide for nothing.  

This boy was tragically killed by Aspen staff.  They may end up being charged with "negligent homicide" or some lower crime, but the fact is that they killed this boy.  Nobody disputes that.  They frittered and sat on their hands while he died and failed to call for help until it was too late and he was dead.

[Troll Control]

More on Aspen programs killing kids:

The Aspen Education Group has come under fire for the deaths of two teens at its treatment camps -- and momlogic is on the scene.

Gina Kaysen Fernandes: momlogic's investigative reporting on the troubled-teen industry helped jumpstart a homicide investigation involving one of the nation's largest treatment providers for kids in crisis.

The Lake County Sheriff's department has recommended that the District Attorney file manslaughter charges against an Oregon wilderness camp and its parent company, Aspen Education Group.

The pending charges stem from the death of 16-year-old Sergey Blashchishen, who collapsed and died during his first day at SageWalk Wilderness Camp. Investigators say that the circumstances surrounding Sergey's death are strikingly similar to what happened to Matthew Meyer, who died at an Aspen Education-owned camp in Texas. momlogic covered Matthew's story last year, revealing how inadequately trained and ill-equipped counselors failed to recognize the teen's dire condition until it was too late.

The lead investigator -- who combed through evidence surrounding Sergey's death -- believes that momlogic's story helped connect the dots. "Matthew's case plays a very significant role in this investigation," says Sheriff's Deputy Chuck Pore. "The article initiated a process of researching what happened to Sergey."

The Sheriff's Department's investigation has revealed that while hiking in extreme heat, both Matthew and Sergey complained of exhaustion and feeling dizzy. Despite evidence of overheating, the boys' conditions were dismissed and brushed off by staff members. When each child passed out from heat exhaustion, the staff was slow to contact emergency medical personnel. Both teens died of a severe form of heatstroke known as "hyperthermia."



Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2010/04/trouble ... z0uWDOQyDz

[Whooter]

The sheriff recommended the death be ruled a "homicide."  Do you know what a "homicide" is, Danny?  It's a murder.  The sheriff characterized this kid's painful and avoidable death as murder.  It was referred to the DA as a murder.  

homicide, def. - "the killing of a human being by another human being"

Aspen Education programs murder kids and Sergey probably won't be the last of them.  

First you apologize for child abusers, now you apologize for murderers.  How low can you go, Danny?  How low?  Killing in the name of therapy, Danny?  That seems right to you somehow?  

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.  It's anathema, Danny.  Pure anathema.

Referred as,  recommended, characterized… they are all descriptive words but what was the outcome?  What was determined?
Were people charged and convicted for murder?

We should try to view the facts, if we can, before concluding anything.



...

It was sourced straight from the news article.

Once more, the case has been referred to the DA as a homicide.  The wheels of justice grind slowly, so we'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out.  But, as we all know, police don't just charge people with homicide for nothing.  

This boy was tragically killed by Aspen staff.  They may end up being charged with "negligent homicide" or some lower crime, but the fact is that they killed this boy.  Nobody disputes that.  They frittered and sat on their hands while he died and failed to call for help until it was too late and he was dead.

or it could be accidental death.  But we wont know until the trial is over.  If we all just took the newspapers view we wouldn't need a justice system.

so I agree we will have to wait to see how it shakes out.



...

[Troll Control]

Accidental?  Noooo...no way.  Kid was force-marched in the desert with an 80lb pack until he collapsed, then staff dithered around calling him a "faker."  By the time they got scared enough to call for help, he was dead.  That's no accident, Whooter, and you know it.  

Especially considering this was the second time in less than a year an Aspen program killed a kid this way.  It's no accident.  It's their standard operating procedure.

[Froderik]

Sending a kid to an Aspen program for "treatment" is like fucking for virginity.

Such vivid and colorful imagery, when talking about children no less. Dysfunction is showing his master he is willing to become a full member of the cult by adopting the harsh and disgusting langauge of the fornits cult. This is why you see dysfunction posting such phrases as the one quoted above, and claiming that all treatment programs "rape, mindfuck and murder children". How many children did you "mindfuck" dysfunction, did they pay you well for it? I'm sure your admin cult leader will give you a gold star for using the approved of terminology here, you can put the gold star on your shotgun!

Gimme a fuckin' break...  

[Froderik]

Accidental?  Noooo...no way.  Kid was force-marched in the desert with an 80lb pack until he collapsed, then staff dithered around calling him a "faker."  By the time they got scared enough to call for help, he was dead.  That's no accident, Whooter, and you know it.  

Especially considering this was the second time in less than a year an Aspen program killed a kid this way.  It's no accident.  It's their standard operating procedure.

:bump:

[Whooter]

Accidental?  Noooo...no way.  Kid was force-marched in the desert with an 80lb pack until he collapsed, then staff dithered around calling him a "faker."  By the time they got scared enough to call for help, he was dead.  That's no accident, Whooter, and you know it.  

Especially considering this was the second time in less than a year an Aspen program killed a kid this way.  It's no accident.  It's their standard operating procedure.

So you can see my point.  One person can say murder and another can say it was an accident, someone else could say it was premeditated, some could say it was a crafty suicide.  But we wont know until after the trial is complete.



...

[Whooter]

Harper, N. & Cooley, R. (2007).  Parental reports of adolescent and family well-being following a wilderness therapy intervention: An exploratory look at systemic change.  Journal of Experiential Education, 29(3), 393-396.

In a longitudinal study conducted in 2001 that involved 252 adolescents participating in a 21 day wilderness therapy program for treatment of emotional and behavioral problems, as well as substance use issues, results showed major improvements in areas such as parent-child communication, anger management, and substance use.  In the 12 month follow-up after the adolescents had completed the course scores showed improvements had been maintained.



...