Author Topic: My son at Aspen Ranch  (Read 94839 times)

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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #300 on: September 30, 2009, 11:13:32 AM »
Above response is laughable.  If there is a conflict of interest the therapist must recuse him/herself from treating the patient, PERIOD.  No if's and's or but's.  This is the code of ethics and also the law.

Second, if Nigel already knows there is a conflict of interest, which he does, it should be a GIANT RED FLAG that the therapist didn't mention it to him.

Nigel, you're getting hosed, my friend.

And ,for the record, I am not a program kid so the assumptions in the previous post are just false.  and nothing I said is based on personal feelings, just the law.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #301 on: September 30, 2009, 11:24:01 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Above response is laughable.  If there is a conflict of interest the therapist must recuse him/herself from treating the patient, PERIOD.  No if's and's or but's.  This is the code of ethics and also the law.

So what you are saying is therapists should not accept money for what they do?  I am not sure I understand your argument.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #302 on: September 30, 2009, 01:28:32 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Above response is laughable.  If there is a conflict of interest the therapist must recuse him/herself from treating the patient, PERIOD.  No if's and's or but's.  This is the code of ethics and also the law.

So what you are saying is therapists should not accept money for what they do?  I am not sure I understand your argument.

No, I think you are confused, By conflict of interest what the poster meant was the sons “home therapist” has a conflict of interest because while the son is in the program the home therapist is losing revenue so if the home therapist recommends that the son come home early then this would be a red flag that he/she is doing it for the money.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline NIGEL

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #303 on: September 30, 2009, 01:48:06 PM »
I'm sorry, but I choose not to go through life thinking that everyone is out for themselves.  At this point I trust my son's current therapist at the Aspen Ranch.  I think she is there to help kids and so far she seems to be helping my son.  As for the rest of what goes on at the Aspen Ranch and whether it is the right place for my son, still not sure.

As for my son's previous therapists, I trust them.  I firmly believe that they have my son's and our families best interests at heart.  

That being said, I continue to evaluate and will keep my eyes and ears wide open.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #304 on: September 30, 2009, 01:52:09 PM »
Quote from: "NIGEL"
I'm sorry, but I choose not to go through life thinking that everyone is out for themselves.  At this point I trust my son's current therapist at the Aspen Ranch.  I think she is there to help kids and so far she seems to be helping my son.  As for the rest of what goes on at the Aspen Ranch and whether it is the right place for my son, still not sure.

As for my son's previous therapists, I trust them.  I firmly believe that they have my son's and our families best interests at heart.  

That being said, I continue to evaluate and will keep my eyes and ears wide open.

Well, then it's official.  You're a sucker.  And you look over glaring conflicts of interest regarding your son's treatment.  So you're also an idiot.  where do all these stupid parents come from I wonder?  And how do they all seem to find their way to the TTI as well??  This industry thrives off suckers like Nigel. :suicide:
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #305 on: September 30, 2009, 02:02:23 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "NIGEL"
I'm sorry, but I choose not to go through life thinking that everyone is out for themselves.  At this point I trust my son's current therapist at the Aspen Ranch.  I think she is there to help kids and so far she seems to be helping my son.  As for the rest of what goes on at the Aspen Ranch and whether it is the right place for my son, still not sure.

As for my son's previous therapists, I trust them.  I firmly believe that they have my son's and our families best interests at heart.  

That being said, I continue to evaluate and will keep my eyes and ears wide open.

Well, then it's official.  You're a sucker.  And you look over glaring conflicts of interest regarding your son's treatment.  So you're also an idiot.  where do all these stupid parents come from I wonder?  And how do they all seem to find their way to the TTI as well??  This industry thrives off suckers like Nigel. :suicide:
You havent even said anything.  What glaring conflicts and laws are you talking about?  You have been very vague, you are attacking Nigel and other parents but you dont offer a valid argument.  Can you be more specific about your concerns with the therapist(s).
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #306 on: September 30, 2009, 03:26:31 PM »
I guess you have trouble reading, too.  As Nigel said, his son's therapist is an employee of Aspen Ranch.  S/he gets paid by the program.  The program has a vested interest in keeping kids as long as possible.  Therefore the therapist, in order to keep paychecks flowing, has a vested interest in keeping the child in the program, too.  Is that simple enough for you to understand?  Nigel gets it.  He just chooses to ignore this glaring conflict of interest.  In my opinion, this is a stupid course of action for Nigel to take.  And it's morally, ethically and legally wrong for the therapist to allow him/herself to be in this position.  It's not that deep.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #307 on: September 30, 2009, 03:54:54 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I guess you have trouble reading, too.  As Nigel said, his son's therapist is an employee of Aspen Ranch.  S/he gets paid by the program.  The program has a vested interest in keeping kids as long as possible.  Therefore the therapist, in order to keep paychecks flowing, has a vested interest in keeping the child in the program, too.  Is that simple enough for you to understand?  Nigel gets it.  He just chooses to ignore this glaring conflict of interest.  In my opinion, this is a stupid course of action for Nigel to take.  And it's morally, ethically and legally wrong for the therapist to allow him/herself to be in this position.  It's not that deep.

In a private practice, working as an independent, a therapist would have a vested interest in keeping the child coming back every week also.  Therapists also work as part of a team of therapists in group practice and each is required to pull his or her weight to contribute to the therapy practice and therefore would have a vested interest in keeping the clients coming back each week to maintain the money flow so that everyone gets paid and grow the practice.

Helping children in a program is no different.  I think you want to see it differently because you have a problem with programs, but so far you have not been able to demonstrate that programs stand apart from other businesses or there is anything morally, ethically or legally wrong with it.  You keep repeating it but I havent seen any links to support your personal feelings.  
Based on what we know and what Nigel has seen. I think the therapists care just as much for Nigels sons outcome at Aspen Ranch as the one he has at home does.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #308 on: September 30, 2009, 05:39:48 PM »
Actually, I happen to agree that both the home therapist and the corporate therapist have a financial interest in seeing the boy for therapy. In fact, when home therapists refer to programs, they too are paid bounties by the corporation. So are program parents when they provide testimonials or refer their friends and relatives to the program (usually in the form of free tuition).

Buyer beware.

That does not negate the fact that the multi-billion dollar corporation that is Aspen, which is owned by an investment conglomerate, describes behaviorally challenged youth as profit centers in its annual report.  

Auntie Em
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #309 on: September 30, 2009, 06:08:42 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Actually, I happen to agree that both the home therapist and the corporate therapist have a financial interest in seeing the boy for therapy. In fact, when home therapists refer to programs, they too are paid bounties by the corporation. So are program parents when they provide testimonials or refer their friends and relatives to the program (usually in the form of free tuition).

Buyer beware.

That does not negate the fact that the multi-billion dollar corporation that is Aspen, which is owned by an investment conglomerate, describes behaviorally challenged youth as profit centers in its annual report.  

Auntie Em

Thanks auntieEm,  I think we can all agree that therapists are in the business to make money like everyone else whether they work alone or belong to a therapy group… Dentists like to find cavities to fill….. and surgeons like to fill in their slow periods with tonsillectomies and appendectomies.  Therapists like to keep working on new issues.  So conflict of interests seems to resolve around money in all areas.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #310 on: September 30, 2009, 06:33:12 PM »
Well, at least we all agree that there is a blatant conflict of interest at Aspen and NIGEL is too dumb or lazy to do anything about it, even though he already admitted it compromises the program's integrity (if there were any to compromise).  NIGEL is a dumbass and Aspen enjoys robbing him blind.  They have a good relationship.  NIGEL and his son?  Not so good.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #311 on: September 30, 2009, 06:53:00 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Well, at least we all agree that there is a blatant conflict of interest at Aspen and NIGEL is too dumb or lazy to do anything about it, even though he already admitted it compromises the program's integrity (if there were any to compromise).  NIGEL is a dumbass and Aspen enjoys robbing him blind.  They have a good relationship.  NIGEL and his son?  Not so good.

I read that you are frustrated.  It must be tough to try to maintain your beliefs in the absence of any facts and have everyone walk all over and debunk your theories.  Try reading a little more here on fornits instead of resorting to name calling to relieve your frustration.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #312 on: October 01, 2009, 02:10:39 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Well, at least we all agree that there is a blatant conflict of interest at Aspen and NIGEL is too dumb or lazy to do anything about it, even though he already admitted it compromises the program's integrity (if there were any to compromise).  NIGEL is a dumbass and Aspen enjoys robbing him blind.  They have a good relationship.  NIGEL and his son?  Not so good.

Nigel is, let's say, not so bright.
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #313 on: October 01, 2009, 04:22:27 PM »
Whether Nigel is bright or not, he certainly seems to be heavily invested in getting his son help.  

I find it revealing that he finds the intentions of the doctor at Aspen, who is a licensed professional, and the licensed therapists his son saw back home as to be in his sons best interests.  Yet he didn't say the same for the rest of the staff at Aspen.  I think Nigel is concerned that his son sees the staff more than he sees the real professional.  I would consider that a conflict of interest as Nigel is paying, from his perspective to see a real therapist and not some hacks.  If the hacks were just there to show him how to ride horses and properly equip a backpack, do a lot of "go kid go!" kind of cheer leading while letting the professionals take care of the psychology stuff, that would be better.  But I think Nigel is realizing that the hacks are doing the psychology, without licenses or training and there is some concern that Aspen might not be the nurturing environment it claims to be, and is probably not providing the real therapy his son needs.

Nigel has said he will hear his son out.  Find out more about what is going on at Aspen.  Consider all of his sons options and make the best decision he can.  Most of us here believe that taking his son home as soon as possible, have him see a real therapist again and focus on the depression is the way to go.  I personally do not believe that 24/7 therapy is helpful.  Maybe for a week it could be, but the brain isn't supposed to go non-stop for a year or more.  And when you consider it, just how long should it take to work out a kids problems?  You telling me it really takes two full years of intensive therapy to get to the source of the problem and work out a solution?  That is where I see the conflict.  The need to keep those kids in these places longer and longer so the money keeps flowing.  

My own psychologist never seems to have a conflict.  I see him once every few months just to remain focused.  Not every week and certainly not multiple times per week.  My shrink is there for me and when times are tough has lowered his hourly rate considerably.  And I have never seen psychologists who were part of an organization where they felt they had to generate hours and income for a group.  All of my shrinks were in individual practices.  Many were not all that good at their job and there was no personal connection made between me and them, but there are always good and mediocre in any industry.  But at least they were the real deal.  Not hacks.

But getting back to Nigel, I think he is in his own personal conflict of interest.  His son wants to come home, his wife wants the son home but Nigel wants to step back, get all the advice and insight he can and make the right decision for his son and his family.  A tough place to be.  I think if is son is able to communicate clearly what is going on and his reasons for wanting to come home and if he has a solid understanding of what will be required of him when this visit takes place in October, perhaps some progress can be made.  There are options to not being in Aspen.  

I think Nigel, when he visits, should ask his son how much time has been spent dealing with the issues that got him sent there, and how long has been spent with Aspen making up new issues?  I know when I went to one of these therapy schools, they spent all the time trying to make up new problems for me that never existed.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #314 on: October 01, 2009, 05:13:20 PM »
I believe things have changed considerably since you were in a program, RMA, Aspen Ranch does not subject the kids to intense therapy 24/7.  There is a very structured program which has been developed to keep the kids busy and focused allowing time for school, organized activites and personal time.  If Nigels son was home I dont believe he would be seeing his therapist much more than he is at the Ranch so that is a wash.  The advantage of the Ranch is the structure, consistency and safe environment with constant oversight which is hard to duplicate at home.
You mentioned that Nigel is concerned that his son sees the staff more than he sees his therapist and reading back I didn’t see where Nigel wrote that.  I dont think a parent has the expectation that the child will see a therapist 24/7.  Some kids dont see one at all unless the parents request it and some programs have the parents pay the therapists directly and set up the appointments.
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