My son at Aspen Ranch

[Troll Control]

Not to mention that Whooter is the hand in the sock-puppet called NIGEL.

TheWho is just flailing away for the last week or so.  his trolls are so low-quality that he just gets beaten down every time he posts.

[Whooter]

So, talking to his son on the phone makes him privvy to inside information?  I don't think so.  He said his kid was sent there for drinking/drugging/lying.  So now a second-hand conversation between a "parent" and his lying son suffices for "evidence" for you Whooter?  You have very, very low standards.  And you now have flip-flopped from disregarding the lying children's stories to taking a second-hand account from a lying kid as fact.  Fine if you want to.  But don't expect anyone else to buy it.  It's laughable in fact.

Ha,Ha,Ha so now you are saying that survivors lie about their time inside the program.  Interesting... well we will have to wait until Nigel gets home from his trip to Aspen Ranch and get his first hand account then.....  but thats funny, its the first time any of you admitted that you lie about your experiences.

[Troll Control]

So, talking to his son on the phone makes him privvy to inside information?  I don't think so.  He said his kid was sent there for drinking/drugging/lying.  So now a second-hand conversation between a "parent" and his lying son suffices for "evidence" for you Whooter?  You have very, very low standards.  And you now have flip-flopped from disregarding the lying children's stories to taking a second-hand account from a lying kid as fact.  Fine if you want to.  But don't expect anyone else to buy it.  It's laughable in fact.

Ha,Ha,Ha so now you are saying that survivors lie about their time inside the program.  Interesting... well we will have to wait until Nigel gets home from his trip to Aspen Ranch and get his first hand account then.....  but thats funny, its the first time any of you admitted that you lie about your experiences.

No, we're just pointing out that you call all program kids liars and now you make claims of fact based on second-hand accounts of people you call liars.

Not that it matters, since you are NIGEL and the story is ficticious.  It's just funny to watch you contradict yourself every couple of minutes and flip-flop like a fish out of water.  You only make yourself look bad.

[Whooter]

So, talking to his son on the phone makes him privvy to inside information?  I don't think so.  He said his kid was sent there for drinking/drugging/lying.  So now a second-hand conversation between a "parent" and his lying son suffices for "evidence" for you Whooter?  You have very, very low standards.  And you now have flip-flopped from disregarding the lying children's stories to taking a second-hand account from a lying kid as fact.  Fine if you want to.  But don't expect anyone else to buy it.  It's laughable in fact.

Ha,Ha,Ha so now you are saying that survivors lie about their time inside the program.  Interesting... well we will have to wait until Nigel gets home from his trip to Aspen Ranch and get his first hand account then.....  but thats funny, its the first time any of you admitted that you lie about your experiences.

Thats incredible that we see a post like that.  I have to agree it is the first time I've seen survivors openly called liars about thier stories in the program here on fornits.  Only someone like Bruce would make a screwed up post like that.  I dont think it is anything to laugh at, like you do, but lordy it is fucked up.

[NIGEL]

I am no expert on the Aspen Ranch.  I am just a parent trying to get help for my son.  

I have been to the Ranch in late August (I reported about my visit in this forum).  Does this make me an expert----by all means NO.  I am heading back on Oct. 11th and 12th for my next visit.  I am hoping to be able to take my son off campus for either lunch or dinner (he is on the verge of making the next level, which would allow me to take him out for 2 hours).  

To RMA, thanks for your advice.  I am reading and then re-reading your posts.  I might come back with some questions for you.

[RMA Survivor]

Good luck with everything Nigel.  I just find it peculiar that any parent would allow a school he or she is paying for to dictate how long you can visit with your son.  I think if you want to spend more time with him, tell them, demand it.  If you don't think it will forever mess your son up to spend more time with him than a school dictates, do it.  If you are planning on removing your son, take charge now.  But it doesn't have to be a conflict.  You are the parent and you should be able to spend more time with your son if you decide to.

Two hours?  I think right now a longer period is warranted so you can listen to his stories, hear him out, let him give you his thoughts about "where he is at right now" and what he wants to do.  It is far more important for you to know what these things are than for the school to limit your time regardless of what level he has achieved.  Also, if your son sees that you are going out of your way to spend more time, regardless of what the school thinks, this may help strengthen a bond between you and build some trust when he sees you want to hear him out and trust him.  But keep in mind, students have often been punished for the actions of their parents.  I know of a student whose parents sent them a care package and the student went on Work Details and was put on Bans from speaking for a month because they couldn't punish the parent.  But sometimes parents need to find these things out for themselves first hand.

Again, good luck Nigel.

[Whooter]

RMA , A Confrontation like that is never good.  Its better to try to understand the rules a little better and ask questions.  If after you have a discussion with the school you feel the 2 hours is not enough or unjust then you can speak your feelings too.  

But as a parent its never good to just barge into the local public school (for example) and demand to speak with your child  or ask for a longer lunch period.  There are schedules.  The rules are not made to piss people off.

 I also had to go thru the same thing with my daughter and we got time off campus alone (don’t remember how long) and we had lunch.  They were not strict about the two hours but it was structured that way because during the parents visit there is a lot going on with the parents and the students during a very short visit.. activities, separate and together.  I found the time together really nice and we spent the time well catching up on things.  We were still able to talk/visit and catch-up at other times during my visit on campus.  So don’t think you will only get 2 hours with him, Nigel.

[Troll Control]

But you don't have a daughter, John.  You have two sons and one is dead.  He was killed by your negligence and Aspen's unlicensed 'therapists'.

[Whooter]

But you don't have a daughter, John.  You have two sons and one is dead.  He was killed by your negligence and Aspen's unlicensed 'therapists'.

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Bruce you are so predictable when you get owned.  You are so desperate to get theis guy John that you make yourself look foolish.  Next time read the links before speaking out and you wont step in it as much (just a helpful hint)


Okay, Carry on!  Sorry to derail.

[RMA Survivor]

The point is that Nigel has explained that his son has things he wants to discuss and that Nigel wants to listen to.  And Nigel should be clear on his authority as a parent to demand at any time whatsoever his right to speak to his child for any length of time he desires and without explanation.  Whether Aspen will grant him more than two hours if irrelevant.  Nigel is the parent.  Aspen has no claim to authority over a parental visit, or authority to even suggest limitations.  Nigel should be able to phone, say he is coming up to spend some time with his son, and Aspen should know that will be for however long Nigel decides.  Considering the son is essentially imprisoned at the ranch, there is clearly plenty of time for Aspen and the son to discuss the visit later.  But when Nigel goes up there, Aspen should know that the visit will be for however long the parent decides and the parent does not need to explain that.  Additionally, Nigel should be able to call the school at any time and arrange an immediate visit.  Not this two or three month waiting period, but immediately upon his desire to see his child.  No school has any authority to restrict that in any way, shape, or form, no matter how "structured" or "restrictive" the program is.

Clearly Nigel and his wife have some concerns.  I think it is awesome that Nigel didn't simply ship his son away and ignore him.  Nigel is going to the campus again to meet with his son, and they will discuss whatever they feel like discussing.  I think the topic should address the son's depression issues.  I think this is the most important topic and if somehow the son can get this issue in his life dealt with successfully, son and parents can both enjoy an amazing and happy life together.

I personally believe Nigel is the real deal.  I tend to analyze writing styles to determine if someone is playing at being someone else.  And for Nigel, one thing you might notice in this thread you started is that the "Guests" who are all pro-program seem to all post within minutes of each other.  About the exact amount of time it would take one poster to post a "story" or comment, and then write another.  Just look at Page 1 and you will see after your post that suddenly three pro-program comments followed soon after, and all within 4 minutes of each other.  Clearly there are people here who are legitimate, and the bulk of those are not shy in saying they are anti-program.  But with just a little looking it is easy to tell who is trying to manipulate you and who is not.  

And for the others, clearly Nigel said in his very opening comment that he had visited his son in August.  So he has been to the campus and over a couple of months has spoken to his son repeatedly, which is why these concerns came up to begin with.  There is clearly a sock puppet at work in this thread but I do not believe it is Nigel.  

And Nigel, whatever questions you have, I am here to give the best answers I can.

[Whooter]

And for Nigel, one thing you might notice in this thread you started is that the "Guests" who are all pro-program seem to all post within minutes of each other. About the exact amount of time it would take one poster to post a "story" or comment, and then write another. Just look at Page 1 and you will see after your post that suddenly three pro-program comments followed soon after, and all within 4 minutes of each other. Clearly there are people here who are legitimate, and the bulk of those are not shy in saying they are anti-program. But with just a little looking it is easy to tell who is trying to manipulate you and who is not.

RMA, Most of those earlier posts, that you speak of, were mine.  They were taken from another "Aspen Ranch" Thread and thought they would apply here.  The time delay was the time it took to find, locate and cut and paste them from one forum to the next.  But they were all posts from kids who attended Aspen Ranch or their parents.  If its a big issue I can go back and supply links.

[RMA Survivor]

It would only be an issue that you are spamming other peoples posts in a manner that suggest they were commenting on this thread.  If ahead of this spam you had specifically said in a post that you are going to copy the posts of other people to this thread so as to suggest that there are people who are Pro-Program like yourself, that might have been proper.  But the way you did it gave off the impression that others were adding to this thread when in fact only you were.  And you seem to post endlessly and speak for others.  And because you post so much, it would be far more appropriate if you actually took a fraction of the time you use to spam new posts and actually came up with a name for yourself so we can more easily identify you.  That way it doesn't continue to appear to be random guests replying to these threads when in fact it is only a single person; you.

The fact you post as a guest and clearly spam, is why nobody takes you very seriously.  And since this is an anti-program site, why do you bother coming here?  Why don't you form your own site for Pro-Program people and live there?  Do you really crave attention this much?  Was this a problem Aspen failed to cure you of?  Or did you try and build a Pro-Program site and nobody showed up but you?  This might explain your multiple personalities as you were probably left talking to yourself there as well.  

Go get a life, but have that life somewhere else.  You offer nothing valuable to this site and are just too dumb to see that.

[Whooter]

I appologize for this being off topic,  this is for RMA all other can skip to the next post

RMA wrote:

It would only be an issue that you are spamming other peoples posts in a manner that suggest they were commenting on this thread. If ahead of this spam you had specifically said in a post that you are going to copy the posts of other people to this thread so as to suggest that there are people who are Pro-Program like yourself, that might have been proper. But the way you did it gave off the impression that others were adding to this thread when in fact only you were.

No, not true.  These were accounts of other people who have attended Aspen Ranch which would be helpful to Nigel.  He came here for information about the place.  What better information than from those who have attended.  Fornits is loaded with information on various programs.  You are new here, consolidating posts from other threads is done all the time.  Why hide them?

And you seem to post endlessly and speak for others. And because you post so much, it would be far more appropriate if you actually took a fraction of the time you use to spam new posts and actually came up with a name for yourself so we can more easily identify you. That way it doesn't continue to appear to be random guests replying to these threads when in fact it is only a single person; you.

I know that is frustrating.  I had asked the same thing when I use to log in and people still preferred to guest post.  There are numerous people guest posting.  The posts you are reading are not all mine.  I post as much as everyone else maybe a little more.  There are numerous people guest posting.

The fact you post as a guest and clearly spam, is why nobody takes you very seriously.

Why is disagreeing with you considered spam?  Why dont you take guest posters very seriously?

And since this is an anti-program site, why do you bother coming here?

I didn’t see where this was formed as an anti-program site.  Why do you post here?  Why do you chase people away who have had a favorable experience with programs and come here to speak about it?  Do you have a background or personal experience with Aspen Ranch?  Why do you post on a thread you have no experience with?

 

Why don't you form your own site for Pro-Program people and live there? Do you really crave attention this much? Was this a problem Aspen failed to cure you of? Or did you try and build a Pro-Program site and nobody showed up but you? This might explain your multiple personalities as you were probably left talking to yourself there as well.

Go get a life, but have that life somewhere else. You offer nothing valuable to this site and are just too dumb to see that.

So I haven’t come around to your way of thinking and this is how I am treated? You ridicule and make fun of those who have other opinions?   Are you going to treat Nigel the same way if he doesn’t become anti-program like yourself.  Why not speak to the owner of fornits and get guest posting banned?  Why should I be singled out?

[Whooter]

RMA wrote:

Nigel should be able to phone, say he is coming up to spend some time with his son, and Aspen should know that will be for however long Nigel decides. Considering the son is essentially imprisoned at the ranch, there is clearly plenty of time for Aspen and the son to discuss the visit later. But when Nigel goes up there, Aspen should know that the visit will be for however long the parent decides and the parent does not need to explain that. Additionally, Nigel should be able to call the school at any time and arrange an immediate visit. Not this two or three month waiting period, but immediately upon his desire to see his child. No school has any authority to restrict that in any way, shape, or form, no matter how "structured" or "restrictive" the program is.

I agree with this 100%.  I was able to visit any time I wanted.  They appreciate a phone call so they can change around the kids schedule so they dont miss duties and school etc., but other than that they are open and flexible within reason.  There is no way they could be effective if they had parents showing up everyday taking the kids in and out, but unscheduled vists are tolerated.

[RMA Survivor]

First off, I am not at all new to this site.  I have been posting for a couple of years at least.  At one time under a different log-in name.  I forgot the password I used so I simply formed a new account.  

The site is obviously anti-program.  If you don't see it, I can't help you there.

You go out of your way to make yourself the topic and not the topic itself the matter at hand.  Your posts tend to be more about bringing yourself attention.  This is also obvious.

You contribute so little to conversations enabling them to have some form of conclusion.  More people have to respond to you and your trite little comments than about the topic at hand.  When the topic is about Nigel, you take the topic elsewhere.  Nigel came here asking advice, you gave anecdotes that were not even your own really.  Now he has had to come back and justify himself and prove he is a father with a teenage son at the program because rather than talk to Nigel and give him constructive feedback, you and maybe some others took the focus off him and this thread and turned it in to something else.  

If you are done giving Nigel advice, why don't you troll elsewhere?  Clearly it is because you can't.  Nigel has posted in this thread like four times, you've posted like thirty, and almost all of them offered him nothing.  Why can't you stay on topic?  Why do you make the same circle-logic arguments over and over again?

And the reason I suspect you are the main guest poster is because your posts are all minutes apart from each other.  And often I can tell when it is a different guest poster because unlike you and most of the posters on this site, they are not pro-program.  So it is obvious when it is you.  I am not opposed to guests.  But you are not a guest.  You are a constant spammer of useless drivel.  You contribute nothing.  You make the most weak arguments and you make them repeatedly.  If your life long ambition is to be an annoying nuisance, you are very successful in life and should be proud.   If you dream was to be intelligent, witty and insightful, I have news for you...