Author Topic: My son at Aspen Ranch  (Read 96184 times)

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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #285 on: September 27, 2009, 08:11:56 PM »
Nigel,

I cannot comment about the music selected, but what I will give you advice on is be 100% open and honest with your son.  I am under the impression your son spoke to you about his desire to come home in confidence and isn't taking out a full page ad in the school newspaper.  If I am wrong about this, please say so.

Assuming your son spoke to you in confidence, it would be unwise for you to speak to staff or his therapist behind his back about anything he discusses with you in private without first asking him.  Trust is what you are building here and it is what you will need for him to come home.  You said you think his therapist may have been involved in setting up some rules for your household.  Was this said in the context of those being rules were he to come home and leave the program?  Based on my knowledge of these programs, it seems very unlikely the school would actively assist your son in leaving their program.  Generally they have a knee-jerk reaction, blanket policy of claiming all kids who leave before the program is over (and paid for) will die or wind up in jail.  

As for him coming home sooner rather than later, I can understand that you need some time to hear him out, contemplate what he says and then make a decision.  You've known him the longest, so you are the best there is at judging the things he says.  His staying in the program a little longer isn't going to ruin him for life, but the longer he stays, the more problems that might result farther down the road.  You said he had some stories to tell you, and I think that conversation may be enlightening.  But find out whether he wants to speak to you in confidence or whether he is sharing his desire to leave and plans to talk to you with others at the school.  If he is not sharing, you need to keep that confidence intact.  

I am concerned with a couple of other things as well.  One is that these programs are often very difficult to describe.  I don't know is Aspen uses cult language, which is using words in the wrong context or making up words to describe certain parts of the program, but if they do, your son may have trouble fully describing things.  If they have finally started to use plain English, that will be helpful in you understanding his stories.  If it is cult language, be patient.  Maybe bring a tape recorder so you can fully hear what he is saying a few times.  I would highly recommend that.  You would also be able to play it for an actual psychologist (NOT affiliated with Aspen in any way) to get a professional opinion of what your son describes and talks about.  

My other worry is that your son might think you are stringing him along and blowing off what he has said to you when you leave and he is still there.  So you should tell him before you arrive that your plan is to listen to him, but that you currently, at this time only, do not intend to remove him from the school immediately.  That he will remain there as you take the time to absorb what he has told you.  Don't pop that on him at the last minute.  By telling him in advance, you include him.  That is so important.  And explain everything to him, why you are doing this and so on.  Don't make it a secret or a surprise.  

I am glad your recent talk with him went well and I wish you every success in your future interactions.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #286 on: September 27, 2009, 08:15:59 PM »
"Point Scoring. Point scoring is a method of communication that prioritizes making certain points favorable to the speaker, and attacking opponents of the speaker by trying to undermine their positions. Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion...Point scoring works because most audience members fail to analyze what they hear. Rather, they register only a few key points, and form a vague impression of whose 'argument' was stronger."
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #287 on: September 27, 2009, 08:37:32 PM »
Hey, Nigel, I am happy for you.  Nice phone call.  It sounds like your son is progressing nicely.  It’s a good sign that he is being allowed to write to his friends.  My daughter wasn’t allowed this until towards the very end and even then it was limited to only one or two friends.  So he must have had a few good friends.
I think you have a really good gut reaction about bringing him home too early.  The sling shot effect would be huge and almost better if you had never sent him in the first place if you did that.  Every one of the kids that left early did not do well at all.  Well I say that but there were only 2, I recall, that left early while my daughter was there, but I had heard of kids who left early in other groups there.

 All the music I sent her was denied because of the language.  I couldn’t find anything that they approved of ….is seems all music now a days has inappropriate language or sexual references or the kids don’t listen to it.  They are teens and that is what stimulates them, I guess.  I cant help you with the CD’s you chose, some of the younger guys here should be able to help you out with that.  But music by Barbara Streisand (The Rose) and Kenny Rogers were the types they were looking for me to send Ha,Ha,Ha.  Oh, wait, “Cold Play” was a group they approved of.  I am not sure if they are still popular but I donated that CD and they accepted it.

You are staying very involved in all of this which has been great and your son will remember every contact as my Daughter did.  She can recall each conversation and visit we had together (and never lets me forget the day I never answered the phone because I mixed up the days) and looking back she can see how hard it was for me too to keep her there when she wanted to come home.

About half way thru she ran away and they called me and I remember I left work to come home. She was only gone a few hours before they found her down the road.  But I told the school that I wanted to talk to her “Now” to see what was wrong and they put her on and we talked for about an hour.  The school was great and the reason she ran is because she was facing a turning point or breakthrough  in her therapy and I remember asking her if she wanted to continue or to come home and she said she didn’t know, which surprised me.  She wanted to finish but it was hard for her.  She had come so far and she made the decision to stay and finish which was a huge day for me.  That was her turning point and she remembers that as the day she decided to stick it out too.  It was never real easy because they keep the pressure on. She went from no academics to independent study courses towards the end which was a bonus because the schooling wasn’t the focus initially.  But they really challenged her in every way.  

Anyway this is about you and I would like to speak for others when I tell you that your candid postings here are very helpful to many parents who are on the fence or have kids  in programs but don’t want to post here because of the occasional intense opposition to program parents which can flame up from time to time here.
I know you are having a good night!!  Enjoy it!!
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #288 on: September 27, 2009, 09:12:08 PM »
"Point Scoring. Point scoring is a method of communication that prioritizes making certain points favorable to the speaker, and attacking opponents of the speaker by trying to undermine their positions. Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion...Point scoring works because most audience members fail to analyze what they hear. Rather, they register only a few key points, and form a vague impression of whose 'argument' was stronger."
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wu ... a.pdfGuest
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #289 on: September 27, 2009, 09:38:52 PM »
NIgel,  hope your "game plan" involves intensive therapy on your part.  You alluded before, although mildly, to feeling some remorse for your negative attitude.  Not trying to dump on you here but it is vital that whatever issues in the family contributed to the situation be addressed.  Remember your son did not get to where he is overnight; it took many years for things to "go wrong".  The point is not to beat yourself up but to understand cause and effect so situations that recur can be faced in a different, more constructive way.  It is encouraging that you are willing to listen.  I have a feeling there was a lot of lecturing and nagging before, a mistake many parents make.  Listening closely with an open mind will allow you to hear the nuances, the vital clues being given which most parents miss.  

One of the many problems with programs is that they do not offer any real therapy with the families.  One reason is because the families live so far away.  Another is that they don't want to offend the check-writer (that would be you) who might get angry and pull the kid.  So usually really important issues get ignored.    If the family or the parent with whom the child has the biggest conflict actually seeks out therapy on their own and gains the necessary insight to make changes there is a bigger chance that things can be different when the kid comes home.  But no program in the world is going to "fix" any kid, any problem.  Without a lot of hard work on your part, insight and willingness to change yourself before he gets  home whether soon or later on, you will have the same problems, maybe even worse because he will be bigger than  you some day.  You are both in a program:  you expect him to do his work but you must show him that you are doing "your" work as well to have credibility.

Incidently I have heard from CEDU "graduates" that part of their "breaking down" process was an activity where they were forced to scream and yell that they hate their parents, that the staff would say nasty things about the parents in an effort to create more separation and make the kids more dependent on the staff...  the longer a kid was in, the more vulnerable they were and the easier it was to convince them that their parents did not really want them. Meanwhile they stroke the parents until they feel really good about having their kid there.  And the peace at home is very seductive.  Remember, there is a lot of stuff that goes on that does not make it into the fancy full-color brochures.  Good luck.
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #290 on: September 27, 2009, 09:39:46 PM »
Ran away halfway through the program?  How many times have we heard that?  So many run away, and all are chased.  And even in this case, after running away, a short time later given the opportunity to go home she suddenly changed her mind?  Very peculiar.  I think the fact you stressed that the program was difficult for her and pressuring her constantly, likely without any break for reflection or growth... This is similar to weightlifting where it is proper to give the muscles a break in order to allow them to mend and grow.  Constant pressure is not a therapeutic method.  Too many of these programs go way to far, far too long and the people cannot go and go nonstop for two full years.  The mind simply isn't designed to work constantly with no break and neither are emotions.

I compare these methods to Intensive Foreign Language Courses.  The idea in these courses is to learn what would be three years of language in school all in six to eight weeks.  It is mentally exhausting after just a few weeks and by the end of the brief course you are usually going somewhere where you will have a chance to be immersed in a community where that language is spoken.  You get the basic words and sentence structure, but then you have a long period to use what you learned, no longer pressured.  To attempt to learn the language fluently, non-stop in a similar course that ran for months and months, there is no way you could keep up.  It would simply be too much information to absorb too quickly.  These programs are similar, except that when someone takes one of these courses, it is by choice and they are motivated to succeed to begin with.  Whereas in these programs, the teen is usually tossed in to a very foreign and hostile environment, forced to learn a new language (that of the program), and it is not one topic, but an entire life of topics.  Childhood, friends, family, bad experiences, all at once, day after day, not for a few hours but endlessly with no break.  Which is why these students break.  

And it isn't just that it is too much for too long, it isn't really coherent.  The teen is left with such a vast mix of varying memories that all arrived so fast, for so long and from a lot of different people.  This is what is different from normal therapy with a psychologist.  Psychologists see you perhaps two or three times a week at most, the sessions are brief, usually only a half hour to an hour, and like in school, when you return, the previous "lesson" is reviewed.  The patient has had some time to reflect, the subject matter was limited and therefore easier to absorb.  Imagine going to your psychologist for sixteen hours a day, seven days a week, you had to live in his/her house, you were in fear constantly of being disciplined, and you had to cover an entirely new and deeply emotional segment of your life every other hour, so that by the end of the day you had covered so much material you can barely remember what it all was.  And on top of that, it wasn't just one psychologist.  Every couple of hours a totally different psychologist came in, took over, had a completely different style, used different words, started from a different part of your life, changed all your focus to something else, and this went on day after day after day for two years...

Your mind would be blank within months once it all ended because you never had a chance to absorb it all.  Everything would seem like a dream, where you wake up and try and make sense of it all, but you can't quite describe.  It seemed real, you thought something profound had happened while you were sleeping, but there's nothing.  It's all a jumble.  

Add in that instead of different psychologists who are actually trained and licensed and education in therapy, you had a series of hacks coming in.  Each one as incapable as the last from rendering anything of any real and lasting value, all of it made up as they go along.  This is how these programs work.  One "therapist" is loud and abusive and aggressive, the next is calm, a little strange, says things that are a little hard to understand.  The rhythm simply isn't there.  It's not like going to the doctor for a sprained ankle where any doctor in the place can probably help you.  This is therapy.  Developing a one on one relationship is important.  Getting one message and not fifty is important.  Progressing in a slow and methodical manner is the proper approach.  

The brain has to rest, it cannot absorb endless stimuli and not have time to process it all without breaking.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #291 on: September 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM »
Quote
One of the many problems with programs is that they do not offer any real therapy with the families. One reason is because the families live so far away. Another is that they don't want to offend the check-writer (that would be you) who might get angry and pull the kid. So usually really important issues get ignored. If the family or the parent with whom the child has the biggest conflict actually seeks out therapy on their own and gains the necessary insight to make changes there is a bigger chance that things can be different when the kid comes home. But no program in the world is going to "fix" any kid, any problem. Without a lot of hard work on your part, insight and willingness to change yourself before he gets home whether soon or later on, you will have the same problems, maybe even worse because he will be bigger than you some day. You are both in a program: you expect him to do his work but you must show him that you are doing "your" work as well to have credibility.

Thanks guest, this is a great point.  As my daughter progressed thru the program I became aware of how the communication between the two of us just wasn’t working prior to her being placed.  As a parent I always took the hard line of defining the rules of the house with hardly any flexibility which turned out to be a flaw for me. So part of what we worked on was involving her more in the household decisions which made her feel more included into the family.  This was a big step and difficult for me at first but made a big difference when she came home.  Towards the end of his stay and during one of your visits you and your son may be asked to work on a contract which will define the transition back home and the rules you will “both” live by once he is home.  This can be a very difficult but enlightening task which will bring you both closer together as you work side by side to define what is important and what isn’t. You may learn a few new things about yourself and about your son (and vice versa) during this process.

Like the guest poster mentioned the better programs recognize that change sometimes needs to occur at home as well as in the program.
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #292 on: September 27, 2009, 10:45:11 PM »
I would avoid making a contract with your son.  Your relationship is not a business transaction and should never mimic one.  The only thing that has ever matter, and will ever matter are actions, reactions and trust.  How you respond to each, how you treat other, how much mutual trust there is is how you gauge the strength of the relationship.  As soon as you require a contract to proceed, you are automatically saying trust doesn't exist and that you need your sons signature or word to proceed.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #293 on: September 29, 2009, 10:34:22 AM »
Nigel, you are being primed for the inevitable next step: You will be told that your son needs to attend a boarding school. Aspen will be paid for the referral.

Your son may also soon be diagnosed with some newly identified condition, such as nonverbal learning disorder, attachment disorder, Asperger's, or some such thing. There will be much urgency attached to the need to move him immediately and directly to a boarding school--you will be told he will fall back from the gains he's made, resume his old behaviors, or wind up "deadinsaneondrugsorinjail." (If this is true, then this program has already failed to deliver on its promises to you and your son.)  

If he receives some new diagnosis, bring him home for a second opinion AND a formal treatment plan from an impartial mental health professional with no financial interest in the diagnosis, as well as solid professional training in adolescent mental health. One of the legal reforms being sought for this industry is a requirement that they be required to provide a written diagnosis and written treatment plan. These are documents you could use to hold the corporation and the therapists they employ legally responsible for the promises it makes to you and your son. A written diagnosis and treatment plan are standard operating procedure among mental health professionals and institutions.

Auntie Em
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #294 on: September 29, 2009, 12:06:07 PM »
Auntie Em makes a great point.  Nigel, if he were a real person and not just TheWho's sock puppet, should realize he's being groomed by Aspen to put him in a position where he will need to pay thru the nose to make sure his son gets Aspen's help, next in the form of a TBS.  Aspen grooms parents for fleecing like pedophiles groom children for molestation.
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Offline NIGEL

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #295 on: September 29, 2009, 01:28:02 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Auntie Em makes a great point.  Nigel, if he were a real person and not just TheWho's sock puppet, should realize he's being groomed by Aspen to put him in a position where he will need to pay thru the nose to make sure his son gets Aspen's help, next in the form of a TBS.  Aspen grooms parents for fleecing like pedophiles groom children for molestation.

My son is already at a TBS (The Aspen Ranch), and I'm already "paying thru the nose to get Aspen's Help."  I know there is a conflict of interest regarding the fact that the same therapist that is making recomendations on when my son is ready to go home is employed by Aspen Ranch and that the school is a business and obviously makes money by attracting, and then keeping students.  This is the part that I am trying my best to keep an eye on. Here is how I am doing this-----My wife and I are currently seeing my son's old psychologist and reporting what is happening.   We are also talking to his old psychiatrist.  Together we are trying our best to both keep an eye on what is happening and to set up a plan for when my son comes home.  My son likes his former therapists and we trust them.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #296 on: September 29, 2009, 04:46:21 PM »
In my case the school therapist was an independent but I believe she received a good portion of her business from the program so it adds up the same thing.  What you have done is the ideal, keeping your sons old therapist in the loop.  This gives you another professional, who has an interest in your son, to bounce questions off of.  This therapist may also assist you in detecting any red flags which may emerge from talking to your son or visits to the Ranch.
Its an exciting and stressful time coming up for you as you prepare to travel next week.  I wish you luck.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #297 on: September 29, 2009, 07:12:22 PM »
Quote from: "NIGEL"
Quote from: "Guest"
Auntie Em makes a great point.  Nigel, if he were a real person and not just TheWho's sock puppet, should realize he's being groomed by Aspen to put him in a position where he will need to pay thru the nose to make sure his son gets Aspen's help, next in the form of a TBS.  Aspen grooms parents for fleecing like pedophiles groom children for molestation.

My son is already at a TBS (The Aspen Ranch), and I'm already "paying thru the nose to get Aspen's Help."  I know there is a conflict of interest regarding the fact that the same therapist that is making recomendations on when my son is ready to go home is employed by Aspen Ranch and that the school is a business and obviously makes money by attracting, and then keeping students.  This is the part that I am trying my best to keep an eye on. Here is how I am doing this-----My wife and I are currently seeing my son's old psychologist and reporting what is happening.   We are also talking to his old psychiatrist.  Together we are trying our best to both keep an eye on what is happening and to set up a plan for when my son comes home.  My son likes his former therapists and we trust them.

So, did either one explain to you that the worst thing you could do to repair your family system was to isolate your son from your family?  If they didn't, they're negligent.  You and your wife should be seeing these people to learn how to be better parents to your child and how to heal the family with love and support, not isolation and punishment.

And you know there's a conflict of interest, yet you choose to just play along anyway?  That makes no sense to logical thinkers, Nigel.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #298 on: September 30, 2009, 10:02:09 AM »
[/quote]So, did either one explain to you that the worst thing you could do to repair your family system was to isolate your son from your family?  If they didn't, they're negligent.  You and your wife should be seeing these people to learn how to be better parents to your child and how to heal the family with love and support, not isolation and punishment.

And you know there's a conflict of interest, yet you choose to just play along anyway?  That makes no sense to logical thinkers, Nigel.[/quote]

We thought long and hard about our decision to send our son to The Aspen Ranch, and yes we consulted our son's therapists.  Our son was in desperate need of help and he wasn't accepting any that anyone here was offering.  While having my son at The Aspen Ranch does isolate him, we are actually much closer now than we were.  As I have stated before, my son was running away, not accepting help, threatening both our lives as well as his.  In the last 3 months, we are now talking and planning.  I believe my son now realizes that I love him dearly and only want what is best for him (whether The Aspen Ranch is "what's best for him" is open for debate).  We don't view this as "a punishment" and I have made that clear to my son, but rather as a last ditch effort to save my son's life.  I have told him this in no uncertain terms.  

As for the "conflict of interest" part:  We are not just "playing along."  If you read my posts I think you will come to the conclusion that I am looking at this aspect rather closely.  At this point, I feel my son's therapist has done a very good job and a lot of our discussions concern making plans for him when he comes home.  I will continue to ask questions of everyone and get help making the decision on when to bring him home.   I will not rely on one person's opinion.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #299 on: September 30, 2009, 10:53:32 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
So, did either one explain to you that the worst thing you could do to repair your family system was to isolate your son from your family? If they didn't, they're negligent. You and your wife should be seeing these people to learn how to be better parents to your child and how to heal the family with love and support, not isolation and punishment.

I think maybe you view this as a punishment because you did not have a very good experience with programs and that is understandable.  I say this not to presume that I know you but because after reading here I have noticed many here have had negative experiences or know someone who had.  I have experienced and known many families, enough to know that each family situation is unique.  I realize that there are situations where the child isn’t communicating with their parents at all and that the program acts as a conduit to facilitate bring the parent and child together and get the communication going again.  This is one of the strengths of many of these programs.

Also, (although typically it is the child who is struggling) part of the healing process is to involve the parents and strengthen their skills and make them aware of new ways they can better help and support their child’s emotional needs so that they have a stronger family base once the child returns home.

Quote
And you know there's a conflict of interest, yet you choose to just play along anyway? That makes no sense to logical thinkers, Nigel.

Licensed therapists are trained in this area and would not be part of a program if they felt there would be a negative affect brought upon the child in any way.  Therapists are taught to to abstain from doing harm first and foremost.  There will always be the challenge of a conflict of interest in any setting unless the therapist lives in the woods and accepts no pay.  So I don’t see this as a relevant factor or argument against getting advice from a therapist in any setting.  If we accepted that argument then what if the childs therapist at home requested the son be taken out of the program or objected to the child going in the first place?  Would it be correct to assume he/she was motivated by money in trying to get the child back so he/she could benefit financially instead of the program using up the insurance coverage for the year?

I think Nigel is doing the right thing by keeping his mind open to all possibilities in his effort to help his son.
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