Moderation Management is replacing 12-step

[Oscar]

What is known about Moderation Management.

For some time the 12-step system developed by the Hazelden Foundation was used more and more in Denmark, but right now people are being killed because the sober youth shoots a bikers without an obivious reason.

We do not want to create more violent youth, so therapists began so search for a system, which allows the clients to graduate the program whil being able to drink Alcohol in small amounts.

So the Moderation Management treatment has entered Denmark and it is pushing other treatment programs out of business.

By allowing clients to continue to drink alcohol, heathens find it more difficult to recruit them and the violence in our streets is lower.

What is the downside of this program?

[Che Gookin]

Depends what exactly they mean by CBT therapy. On the surface it doesn't sound to bad for those who just want to cut back on their boozing. Seems kind of dumb though as why the hell do you need a support group for cutting you booze intake?

drink less fuckhead, drink less.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean when you say 'heathen'? No offense, but half the shit you say doesn't make any sense, at least to me. But that's par for the course on fornits, I suppose.

[Oscar]

Our soldiers noticed very early in Afghanistan and Iraq, that suicide bombers didn't drink. You might have noticed that we unlike the United States have no ocean between us and the wars in Asia. Second of all the eastern countries in Europe are very poor, the police can be bribed. Third our membership of the European Union prevents us from having border countrol.

So there are terrorists in our comunity. People who celebrate 9/11 as a victory. They did actually celebrate it driving around the streets with their flag etc.

As a told in a previous post, people are being shot in the streets of Denmark like never before. It is gangs of young heathens who use what the Russians army left behind. The typical weapon is AK47. It is not a weapon anyone would like to be shot with.

A way for our youth to remain safe is to stay among youth who drink alcohol. Then they cannot become victim of a suicide bomber.

[Che Gookin]

Unless a suicide bomber blows up the pub.

[Oscar]

He will disclose his identity by his anti-social behavior before he will get the chance.

[iamartsy]

Basically you are talking about Rational Recovery: http://rational.org/index.php?id=33
It has turned into utter bullshit! It started out as being very practical. I went to about 2-3 mtgs and found people very judgmental. There was no insight into why a person had "relapsed". It was like they were a step you took before going to AA. In theory all you should need is RR, but it does not work that way in reality.

The other possiblitly is Harm Reduction: http://www.harmreduction.org/article.ph ... pe&type=62
Harm Reduction is beautiful in how it works. To me it is the most practical plan. Keep someone alive while they do whatever they do. I am serious, too. I have worked with at risk communities and it is the theory I most condone. It encompasses things like Needle Exchange so that you don't have spread of Hep C or HIV.

I am not going to rant but there you have the true meaning of these options. 12 steps is not for everyone. It is hard and has to much room for failure. There needs to be other options, and these are two of them.

[Che Gookin]

Sounds like Denmark is turning into the ultimate nanny state. I'll ask my cousin about it, she lives there as she married a Dane.

[psy]

A way for our youth to remain safe is to stay among youth who drink alcohol. Then they cannot become victim of a suicide bomber.

Except the Islamist extremists allow their members to drink or smoke pot in order to appear "un-extreme" and infiltrate.  I forget what their exact term is called.  Given that, I'm not sure how you're proposing alcohol to be a solution to terrorism.  Even it it were, forcing everybody to consume would be highly unethical.

[Oscar]

No one is forcing anyone, but as several people who have worked in Denmark can confirm there is a social communication ban on people who do not want to drink wth the native pupulation.

Students and workers will discover that they are greeted polite and questions regarding school or work will be both asked and answered.

But if you want to know anything but the email-address of the people you either work or study with, you have to accept an invitation from them to a bar. It is still not binge-drinking but after the first beer Danes open up.

That's why High school parties serve alcohol even to younger teenagers, where our legal limit is 16 years if you want to buy alcohol in a shop. High School parties are closed membership parties and then the official age limit does not apply. The same goes for our universities. Our strategy against shootings from isolated students is to see to that they socialize - even persons who will be considered geeks. You will find Friday bars serving alcohol and we have not had a single shooting on campuses since 1993, when they introduced this strategy. These bars are financed by companies who label the beer with the company name so they can attract graduates.

[psy]

LOL.  Suffice it to say, you're proposed solution to various problems would not be very popular in the puritanical US of A.

[iamartsy]

I am far from Puritanical. I was answering the original question. That is it! I think what the Danes are doing is along the lines of what Italy does. I think the US should get less uptight!

[Anonymous]

Totally agree with you.  I had a beloved family member who was addicted to opiates and tried the rational recovery route which was a complete farce and just as bizarre as AA or any other cult.  Harm reduction is the best way I have seen so far.  You keep your loved one alive by being sure they have adequate food, clothing, shelter and medical care.   Only then can the problem actually be attacked a bit at a time, slowly reducing the harm and increasing motivation.  Unfortunately a big part of the "downward spiral" or "hitting bottom" occurs when the person with the addiction is thrown out or left to his or her own devices, unable to provide themselves with the basics because they are focused on the drug that will keep them from being physically ill. Whether addiction is truly a disease or not I don't know but I do know it is a medical problem and should be viewed and treated as a medical problem, not a moral one.  Without invading my family member's privacy I want to say this person is not only still alive, totally off of everything but is happy, healthy and thriving...thanks to a more humane approach to the problem.

Basically you are talking about Rational Recovery: http://rational.org/index.php?id=33
It has turned into utter bullshit! It started out as being very practical. I went to about 2-3 mtgs and found people very judgmental. There was no insight into why a person had "relapsed". It was like they were a step you took before going to AA. In theory all you should need is RR, but it does not work that way in reality.

The other possiblitly is Harm Reduction: http://www.harmreduction.org/article.ph ... pe&type=62
Harm Reduction is beautiful in how it works. To me it is the most practical plan. Keep someone alive while they do whatever they do. I am serious, too. I have worked with at risk communities and it is the theory I most condone. It encompasses things like Needle Exchange so that you don't have spread of Hep C or HIV.

I am not going to rant but there you have the true meaning of these options. 12 steps is not for everyone. It is hard and has to much room for failure. There needs to be other options, and these are two of them.

[Antigen]

LOL.  Suffice it to say, you're proposed solution to various problems would not be very popular in the puritanical US of A.

It would work pretty well with a large segment of the population here in the Blitzburgh area. Da Burgh is a drinkin' town with a football problem. (and a serious hockey habit.... Go Penns!)

[Antigen]

I think MM is a different gig entirely.

http://www.moderation.org/