Author Topic: Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons  (Read 22881 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2003, 12:15:00 PM »
Deborah wrote this:


"I would not voluntarily turn my child over to anyone ......who had different values/beliefs than my own."

*************

Deborah - are you Lonely???  On the other hand, that statement means your children never went to school, or away from home activites, etc., without you being there?  YOU are the only one that has YOUR values and beliefs.  That's what's so great about being in this world.  Everyone has a different belief.  Should I compile a list of the top 100 values and see if everyone, even within the same family, have exactly the same values?

Your statement reeks of fear.

Where is/was your child(ren) incarcerated?  And, what created the "against my will" statement?  I've looked in the archives, but you've posted many, didn't see it.  Maybe this would help me understand where you're coming from.  Just a short response is requested.

 ::heart::
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Offline anon

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2003, 04:05:00 PM »
Deb is making some good points you'd do well to give consideration.
I think some of you are overstating her arguments for the sole purpose of making her 'seem' unhinged on this issue; when you know full well she isn't as off the mark as you'd like to portray her.

From my perspective as far as "the Mormon Thing", I had assumed a strong Mormon presence sence the program was based in Utah. I didn't mind this; as long as there was no indoctrination taking place; And I was assured none was.

This wasn't so. The kids were treated like a captive mission field, by at least some of the employees.

This I minded very much.

Mormonism is a very complicated and fascinating subject. Personally, I have come to feel that understanding the faith of the program owners and principle employees can explain a lot about how and why the program operates the way it dose. There are many similarities with how the program manages the parents and how the LDS Church manages its members - In my opinion.

I have come to feel its not possible to separate the two. I think Mormonism is to the program, what Masonry is to Mormonism - the answer as to how it came to be.

Many very fine people will strongly disagree. I am sorry to offend anyone with this view, however, I do think a solid case can be made to support it.

I suggest anyone who'd like to better understand some of what I'm saying, read, "The God Makers," by Dave Hunt and some other fella whos name I can never remember.
Amazon carries it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2003, 04:45:00 PM »
Smoke Screen is continuing!  Ever since the purpose of MOST of this particular board was to talk about abuse at boarding schools, in particular WWASP, and it has been proven MOST of the lies and rumors originated from PURE, now it's time to slam a religion to make yet another false assumption??!!

What's next?  The weather?

It's VERY clear to me where this thread's originator is coming from.
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2003, 04:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-08-20 14:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Highest incidence in Utah?  Most of the state is Mormon, so that would make sense.  Are you saying that programs in Utah are abusive because the staff are primarily Mormon?  It may not be obvious to you, but in reading your posts you are afraid of Mormons and you don't even know them?  Is that correct?  Reading is believing I suppose.  Now, on the other hand, I live in a state with many Mormons (not Utah) and their family values are of utmost importance.  They are good people and I wouldn't have known they were Mormon hadthey not told me.  I just knew something incredibly different around them.  The love and caring for their children is very apparent.  



Are there abusive Mormons?  Are there abusive Catholics, Christians, Jews, etc.?  What you fear is your own mirror of what you have within you...as Don Miguel Ruiz says in his book, The Four Agreements.  You do so much reading, this may be a good start to get over yourself.     "


?? What assumption??  Your start of this thread isn't an assumption that you fear Mormons.  Did you not write it?
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Offline spots

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2003, 06:45:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-08-21 13:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Smoke Screen is continuing!  Ever since the purpose of MOST of this particular board was to talk about abuse at boarding schools, in particular WWASP, and it has been proven MOST of the lies and rumors originated from PURE, now it's time to slam a religion to make yet another false assumption??!!



What's next?  The weather?



It's VERY clear to me where this thread's originator is coming from.

   



"


Carey, it's very rude to post as Anonymous, when you do have your own log-in.
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Offline Deborah

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2003, 06:50:00 PM »
**On the other hand, that statement means your children never went to school, or away from home activites, etc., without you being there?

Are you attempting to suggest there is no difference between public/private school and 24/7 teen warehousing facilities? I think you know well the differences- just another attempt to divert the discussion to your agenda.

**YOU are the only one that has YOUR values and beliefs.

That is probably true to some extent. I'm addressing values relating to the treatment of children, and I believe there are many that share my values.

**Your statement reeks of fear.

I don't recall asking you to analyze me. I'm getting bored with your defensive reactions, petty comments, and shade-tree analysis. You take a couple of RR seminars and suddenly you're a lay psychologist.

If you want to debate the issue of this thread, then present valid information that refutes the information I presented- more than "I know a family". And, lay off the analysis, which is consistently off base, and unwelcomed, if that matters to you. Your wasting space- pissing and moaning about your erroneous assumptions.

Perhaps your next seminar should be on critical thinking and/or how to debate... but then that would be contrary to the purpose of the seminar??

Deborah
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2003, 07:13:00 PM »
Deborah - you didn't answer the question posed to you?  Where were/are your child(ren) incarcerated, etc.  Is the above response yet another smoke screen??

As for seminars, etc., maybe I will go, personal growth is better than NO growth.
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Offline spots

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2003, 07:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-08-21 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah - you didn't answer the question posed to you?  Where were/are your child(ren) incarcerated, etc.  Is the above response yet another smoke screen??



As for seminars, etc., maybe I will go, personal growth is better than NO growth."


Carey, you really have to quit this.  Your writing style gives you away, and even the paper bag doesn't protect you.
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Offline Deborah

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2003, 07:43:00 PM »
Did a search wwasp + mormon and look what returned.

http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeenthere ... D=22.topic
What you are seeing is that most of the programs in the US and some in other countries evolved from former CEDU employees who left and adopted the same program or very similar program and ideology. I would direct my attention on this matter to The Brown Schools: The current CEDU parent. Since Brown took over, it seems that it has been overrun by Mormons all intent on imposing their religious ideology on the staff and kids, no caffene, no matrubation, and a lot of rigid, ridiculous, insignificant rules that have no basis exept in producing a toxic shame and blind obedience in the children. Kids can't attend Church or religious service of their choice. They (the kids) are made to sit in corners, isolated from interaction from others for weeks at a time for small infractions. Visits with their parents are removed for punishment when they have not seen their parents for as 6 months. Simply talking to a peer can add another two weeks sitting at a table or desk. It is purely illegal to do this, and the Idaho State inspectors in Boise have been repeatedly notified, yet they do nothing as thay have done for many years. Therefore, I suspect that there is a Mormon church connection and the state inspectors are probably Mormon, as Idaho is as dominated by Mormon ideologies as is Utah. The main ingredient is SHAME. They rule by SHAME. The staff teach it to the kids, and the kids do it to each other. Therapists try to intervene on behalf of the kids and are told what they want to hear, then ignored. The worst Mormon culprits Tim M. who is in charge of the programs in the Northwest, Todd D. at Boulder Creek - LaTeresa P. @ BCA is probably not Moromn, but she is bonded in friendships with the Mormoms and therefore will do nothing to stop these and others including Bill B. and what I call the "stepford wives" of the LDS at CEDU. They also have Jehovahs Witnesses and plain religious fundamentalists with no college education. This situation is horrible for the kids who are Jewish, non-white, Eastern in their beliefs, or Gay - pray for them all. Therapists are against all of this at all of the schools, but they are powerless against the do-nothing, say nothing, confront-nothing Mormom manager. Parents need to see what happens at the schools. They need to see the self-rightous patriarchy doing spiritual violence to these children, as it does on a daily basis.

http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeenthere ... D=18.topic
i wanted to make others aware of the situation in provo, utah. i was sent to a charter school, called Provo Canyon School. 6 years later, i am still coming to terms with all i endured there. my first 2 months i was not let outside once. there was one tiny window in our unit, facing a brick wall. i was a privateley funded student, my parents were paying $229 per day, for 17 months. i got rather close with my therapist (whom i saw once a week), but i don't know what he was telling my parents, because the eight months that mom and dad originally planned on keeping me there kept being extended and extended. i suffered insurmountable psychological abuse at the hands of the "counselors", who were nothing more than repressed utah natives, no older than 30, mormon, most lacking college education and the sort of world experience necessary to constructiveley understand and work with the student population at pcs (or any population outside of utah) they insisted that i was a "rich, spoiled little girl", not worthy of the money into which i was born, evil and materialistic. it seemed that some of these counselors taking out their insecurities on me (and others). in fact, the average counselor was 21-25 years old, married with children, mormon, never lived outside of utah, and had issues that made mine pale by comparison (not the sort of people you would want to guide your adolescent and prepare them for life in the real world). looking back, i see that at least 4 female counselors were definateley homo-repressed lesbians, acting out their repressed feelings in a sadistic manner by working in a girls facility when daily chores were not performed up to par, hours were spent staring at a wall. if we were caught looking around, we had to start over. we would spent 25 minutes standing, then have a sitting break for 5 minutes. this period would work off 2 points (minimum amount of points assigned for a small offense was 20, but many offenses were punishable by 100, 200, up to 1000 points, equaling days and weeks of standing time). one girl stood for so long, she passed out, fell foward and broke her jaw (which had to be wired shut) she was reprimanded for locking her knees and purposeley cutting off circulation to her legs. another girl spent so long in isolation, she became bloated and jaundice beyond recognition. most girls gained about 20 pounds during their stay. i gained 30. i was denied access to the amount of water i needed maintain proper hydration, and as a result, suffered from headaches several times a week. i was allowed access to tylenal during "med times", but i was "manipulating staff" and punished if i requested medicine at any other time. i became so repressed and isolated that when i was allowed to return home, i just didn't know what to do. my peers had had time to develop their own lives and grow into themselves, and i had no idea how to socialize with them. these experiences i kept inside me for years, until i opened up to an adult confidant a few years ago. she was appalled and outraged at the situation. i cried with relief at her validation, that i was not crazy to feel traumatized, that an experience like this would traumatize any normal person. since then i have been trying to come to terms with what happened to me. i suffer from nightmares, and harbour so much anger, rage, resentment, and general negative energy. i am now 22 years old, and see that my healing process will be extensive.

-----------------------------------------------
Megan:
After my daughter died in the hands of ignorant, untrained, unqualified, harsh counselors (Mormon), I thought I would die of a broken heart.
I have interviewed other young people like yourself after they too were treated like prisoners of war. I validated them, but the Utah courts DID NOT!!
The concentration camp mentality (mindset) has been my biggest battle in fighting this lucrative, out of control industry. Utah was the first state I stood up to because this was the state I entrusted with the care of my daughter. This "window of loss" mentality continues to rationalize the death of each and every child who falls victim to this industry with it's warped mentality of, "We Lost ONE, But We Are Saving MANY."
Anyone can be deceived. Even so-called Mormons. I too am a member of the Mormon faith. But my teachings and common sense left my in shock when I learned the TRUTH of how my daughter died, while the industry wanted us to believe she dropped dead without warning, was given a priesthood blessing and chose to go. What ignorance! They even blamed Michelle for choosing Jesus over more torture administed by these stupid people! A young woman who had already suffered prior to enrolling herself in the Summit Quest Program. What I know using my own common sense is that pain heaped upon a person who is already suffering will only make them worse.
When my daughter died in the hands of her own people, Mormons, I stood up to many confused and deceived Mormons who were FOLLOWING the wrong philosophy. A warped philosophy that was introduced in Utah by an evil, deceptive man named Steve Cartisano. Many think and believe as he does. This is not Heavenly Fathers way of thinking. It is mans!
What saved me from dying of a broken heart was the TRUTH!! I want the world to know what has been happening to children all over the country and out of the country in the name of help and therapy.
I believe it is the truth that sets us free.
Keep talking Megan. The truth is healing to the soul.
Sincerely,
Cathy Sutton

http://www.voy.com/58570/447.html
I was booted for a post that was written questioning the use of OP, and daring to complain my son had been invited to a Bible study were they handed out the Book of Mormon.
Actually, the OP post had been kind of ignored - except a for a few irate parents insisting no such thing existed. The Mormon thing got a lot of attention, which got Ken Kay?s (I think it was) attention, and he disputed it; I came back with well it happened, and it shouldn?t , but I?m actually more upset about OP - and thats when I got the boot.
I was being belligerent - just simply dared to say something was going on that shouldn?t. This is not allowed. Ever. Constructive criticism, is for them, a non working choice.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Carey

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2003, 08:38:00 PM »
Spots, your claiming it was me that posted the following is exactly why you and your PUREst friends are not creditable...YOU MAKE THINGS UP AS YOU GO ALONG!

Man, you must feel threatned by me.  Why?

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

On 2003-08-21 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah - you didn't answer the question posed to you? Where were/are your child(ren) incarcerated, etc. Is the above response yet another smoke screen??



As for seminars, etc., maybe I will go, personal growth is better than NO growth."
 



Carey, you really have to quit this. Your writing style gives you away, and even the paper bag doesn't protect you.
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Offline Deborah

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2003, 08:41:00 PM »
Damn, the problem is so rampant, an LDS writer was doing research in'99 and put out this Questionnaire for Mormon Survivors of Child Abuse

http://www.affirmation.org/article156.htm?FACTNet
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2003, 02:13:00 PM »
Deborah - you're good a your research.  Tell me, how many Mormons are employed at the wwasp schools in Montana, Iowa, New York and South Carolina?  I wasn't aware there were many Mormons in those parts of the country, nor in Jamaica??  Enlighten us please.
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2003, 08:08:00 PM »
**Tell me, how many Mormons are employed at the wwasp schools in Montana, Iowa, New York and South Carolina? I wasn't aware there were many Mormons in those parts of the country, nor in Jamaica??

Now, since you're posing a question that is virtually impossible to research- WWASP is not going to provide a list of their employees- I have to assume you are actually making an indirect comment, or maybe you are just ignorant.
 
Yes, I would agree with what you seem to be implying- there are non-mormons capable of abuse. But, those non-mormon employees were trained by the mormon creator(s) of the program. The employees are definitely colluding with the abuse. Perhaps a few of them need to be held accountability as well. Might be hard to find and keep employees (who would torture for pay) if they knew there were some risk to their personal freedom involved.

All the other warehouses outside Utah are run by friends or family. The reports and descriptions of abuse seem to be consistent at all the facilities, indicating they all train their staff in the same BM (read torture) techniques. The mormon version of BM, that is.

Deborah
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2003, 08:23:00 PM »
In other words, you don't know.  Is it warm under your blanket of assumptions?   :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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Mid American Turns Kids Over to Mormons
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2003, 08:41:00 PM »
Three words for Deborah ....

MOUNTAIN PARK BAPTIST
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