LAYNE MEACHAM and PROCTOR ADVOCATE, YES FAMILIES

[Anonymous]

Psy you, like the man before the saducees and pharasees have impressed me.  I'm no longer pissed off at you, but I will not make you my David Koresh like some of the others have on this site.  You honestly forthrightly responded to a perfect stranger and gave me private information.  This tells me you do have introspection and probably are a very interesting guy.  Now I can tell you who the real masked man is....I am Meacham.  But I have never been so knocked on my ass with the honesty you respond with and how open you are.   I hate lock ups.  If they would have put me in Benchmark when I was 15 instead of the state Juvenile Prison (Utah Territorial Reform School) I would have torched the place and helped guys like you run!  We could have taken the staff's car and headed for the Haight, which I did.  They could not of held me and lock ups  should not exist except for a very small percentage of kids that are going to really put a hurt on someone like the dudes I worked with in Maximum Security prisons in the condemned men's unit.  I will say that I have never laid a hand on a kid, or sexually or physically abused a kid.  I have cussed a lot around them and used a lot of peer pressure, but never tried to take their dignity.   And I have been wounded by the false accusations coming from kids but also healed by kids that accredit my 12 step oriented program (harsh but not abusive) with helping them fulfill their dreams.   last month a prominent 36 year old woman was presenting to the legislature, she is now an important real estate broker and millionaire and came right out of the committe room and hugged me over and over.  I admire your tenacity and if the Bear is as forthright as you and he has his motives in the right place he is ok too.

When I am wrong I admit it and I believe I was wrong about you and I appologize.

I was selected as one of Utah's 100 most honored living artists by the 2002 Winter Olympics Cultural Olympiad.  You can google Utah Artist Project to see some of my work.  I  have murals in Westminster College, Utah State University, Utah Museum of Art, the Springville Museum and other county and state facilities.  Check it out and let me know what you think.  I am heavily influenced by Dubuffet and James Havard.

I will be heading for Cartegena Colombia  in a few years so I can leave it all behind.

Bien, amigo me despido por ahora,

Layne Meacham LCSW

Did you know ever someone called Mel Wasserman or Charles E. Deidrich?

[Anonymous]

Ursus, I am think I can offer some history and insight into the evolution of the treatment philosophy and so on and will be happy to answer any question you may have.  However I would ask that like Psy you give me a little back ground on yourself, afterall I don't want this to be a deposition or a Bill OReiley interview.  

A lot of the treatment folks would say you are seeking revenge and are angry because of your own experience as a former Straight or Kids alum or Wilderness escapee or whatever.   Psy was so forthcoming and open I completely changed my perspective about him and I don't think he was working me.  The original trigger that started all this was your definitive statement that I had been sued (civil action) for abuse.  So we need to dispose of that matter, but even more importantly are you willing to share as Psy and I have about your treatment experience.  You seem way to passionate about all this stuff to just be a guy that found a cause he liked and jumped on the band wagon.  Have you ever been in Straight or another program or has your kids or what?

I think some positive stuff can come from this as I have over 45 years experience of either being in the system or working to keep kids out of the system, so can you share a little about your background and prior history with programs?

Ursus are you there?  I  was waiting for your reply as to what drives your compulsion to clean up the lock-up  industry?
Did you have a kid in kids or straight?  Are you Phil Elberg the attorney that sued Straight.  Golly I feel like the big bully in Tomstone (Billy Bob Thornton) when Doc introduces him to Wyatt.  However I am dying to know why the obsession.  I can see why with Crawford or someone else that has been unduly locked up, but what the hey with the Bear?  Oh and I forgot to tell you, I have seen attorneys misspell words on pleadings, its just that I am ADD and tend to need a lot of editing.

Dubuffet (still never have met Newton or been sued for abuse)

[Anonymous]

Dubuffet (still never have met Newton or been sued for abuse)

What about Charles E. Deidrich? 'Ever lay with that dog?

[Anonymous]

Who is he?

[psy]

Who is he?

Charles E. Dederich was the founder of Synanon.

[Anonymous]

Who is he?

He's the guy who popularized the peer confrontation tactic at his cult, Synanon.

Mel Wasserman imported it to "CEDU," the sort of prisons you oppose. Don't worry, knowing them does not make you tainted; I'd just like to know what they were like, if you did know them or anything about them.

They murdered many, many young people at their respective gulags, and drove others insane.


Synanon
http://www.rickross.com/groups/synanon.html

Mel Wasserman, CEDU
http://liamscheff.com/daily/cedu-documentary/
http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm

[Ursus]

Mel Wasserman imported it to "CEDU," the sort of prisons you oppose. Don't worry, knowing them does not make you tainted; I'd just like to know what they were like, if you did know them or anything about them.

Layne Meacham doesn't oppose Mel Wasserman's "sort of prisons," Guest. He founded two programs of his own, based on Seed/Straight models of peer group pressure and host homes.

Layne Meacham has issues with juvenile justice lockups, the type that have actual bars on the windows and alarmed doors and big fat guards with jingly keys, where you are locked in a jail cell for most of the time, and which are funded and run by the state.

[Ursus]

Psy was so forthcoming and open I completely changed my perspective about him and I don't think he was working me.

Lol, but you're not working me, no?  ::evil::

Suffice it to say that I was in a program, or two, or three ... the ultimate reason for which should have been illegal to incarcerate anyone at the time. Perhaps it was. I'm sure that you can find some of that should you care to peruse my posts, such as I've chosen to tell. As for more than that, you'll just have to take it on faith. I find it prudent to deal with this at my own pace.

[Anonymous]

Mel Wasserman imported it to "CEDU," the sort of prisons you oppose. Don't worry, knowing them does not make you tainted; I'd just like to know what they were like, if you did know them or anything about them.

Layne Meacham doesn't oppose Mel Wasserman's "sort of prisons," Guest. He founded two programs of his own, based on Seed/Straight models of peer group pressure and host homes.

Layne Meacham has issues with juvenile justice lockups, the type that have actual bars on the windows and alarmed doors and big fat guards with jingly keys, where you are locked in a jail cell for most of the time, and which are funded and run by the state.

 I wish that that debate could be reserved for after Layne is kind enough to share any info he has about these creeps.

[Anonymous]

MR. BEAR, DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE RELATING TO CIVIL ACTIONS BROUGHT AGAINST ME OR TYING ME TO MR. MILLER?

I am getting confused on this deal who is speaking.  And what the hell is all this jargon, like what is a thread, screed on so on?  One so called guest (another phantom) said I was not opposed to this waserman dude and that I founded a program based on Straight.  The Program I founded was based on a model that Yitzhak Bakal of North Eastern Family institute started in Boston (Yitzhak lives in Marblehead Mass) give him a call the program was called Proctor after a program also in Mass in New Bedford Mass.  A lot of the programming came from a friend and professor of mine at Colombia University who wrote a book on positive norms, his name was Howard Polsky.  Now you can all call Yitzhak and see if I am the terrible monster that the "guest" or whoever the hell is speaking.  Howard passed away but I don't have any idea what the hell Straight does other than what I have seen on the news.  And I am not part of a fraternity of nefarious evil lockup providers like this Wassman or Steinberg or who ever the hell you are associating me with.  It is a lot like a Hitler stigmitization type of deal.  This Meacham is one of them and therefore he should not pass go he should go straight to Aushwitz (sp) without first giving him due process.   Kind of an Oxbow incident type of deal.

Ursus you and the gang are all talking about your 14th amendment rights to due process before your liberty interests are taken, and yet you stigmatize and black ball me with no evidence whatsoever.  You are doing the exact same thing your parents or who ever had custody of you did.   Take away your liberty without due process.   What due process have you given me Ursus before you libeled me.   You still have not offered any evidence e.g., case #-s or whatever to prove that I have ever been sued for abuse.  Psy said that you are a solid researcher and he believes you have integrity and I guess would not try to take anyones dignity without the evidence.  But you have not listed any cases or other citations regarding this or that I am good buds with this Newton dude.  Give me his damn number and I will call him and have him sign an affidavit that we have never met!

It was my understanding that Newton started Kids, not Straight.  What-s up with that.   I believe that you all have a point about due process before they lock you up, but you never want to offer it to anyone else, before you stigmatize someone.  In federal case law that is known as the stigma plus doctrine, but it has to be a state employee acting under the color of state law.

Now if it is come clean time hear from now on lets all admit where we were punished and what the charges were.  Psy stated his charge was for political reasons and sexual preferences and Ursus you have not revealed your reasons for institutionalization.  You all always say look it up.  Where how?  What the hell why not just tell us.  

Well so much for this site it appears that your detractors like this PURE deal (what a bogus handle that is) and others  may have a point that you are just loose cannons making allegations about people that cannot be substantiated.  Your'e all just way pissed off about having to endure your PTSD from being denied due process.   Hell I have PTSD from Khe Sahn Vietnam, but I don't go around beating up Vietnamese dudes.  In fact I love Pho Hoa.

Now then Ursus I have a proposal for you and your followers.    Why don't you and I find a radio or television network that we can debate on and record.  You can publicly slander me or whatever and I will argue that some sort of programming may be indicated for kids who are blasted to the gills every day on Meth and who are into other types of serious distructive behavior.  These will be non straight non  Benchmark, CADU, or any of the places you were put in.  Will you accept the challenge, how can you turn it down.  We can cover the whole spectrum of deinstitutionalization.  By the way Psy the C.S. Lewis quote is not applicable as it refers to treatment of SPMI clients (Seriously and Persistently Mentally Ill).  I believe Kant's argument on rights is more fitting.  Check out Kant on Wikipedia, he argues its ok to bring your kid back physically if he runs away.   Ursus wouldn't you stop your four year old from zooming out into the freeway on his hotwheels or would you first demand some procedural and substantive due process before you physically restrained him from colliding with a semi.

MR. BEAR (WYATT) WHERES THE EVIDENCE


Anyhow, lets get a national forum going on this you take the side of radical non intervention regardliess of what the kid does and the PUREE folks can take the Charter or Benchmark Behavior Health lock up approach and I will take the antithesis and you and me and the pure girl can all go on Keith Oberman or a local radio station.  Then you can really lay the wood to me with all the language and jargon I have seen on this site.    Call Yitzhak first and see if he thinks I am for locking up kids or brutilizing kids.  He was Miller's deputy in the late 70's when Miller closed all the reform schools in Mass.  While the legislature was out of session.  

Can you get me the case numbers tonight or by tomorrow morning.   Surely you are not relying on the newpaper, sometimes the newspapers have tended to distort the truth from time to time.

Carry on dude,(an old Neal Cassity saying to Kerouac, only without the Dude)  

Oh and the same disclaimer applies about my ADD no gaurantees about spelling or grammer as there is no evidence to support the notion that intelligence and spelling have any relationship (Dr. John Atzet Ph.D., M.D)

Dubuffet [/b](formerly the Anti Defamation Association)

[Ursus]

Call Yitzhak first and see if he thinks I am for locking up kids or brutilizing kids. He was Miller's deputy in the late 70's when Miller closed all the reform schools in Mass. While the legislature was out of session.

Are you referring to Miller Newton here, or Jerome Miller (former Commissioner of Massachusetts Department of Youth Services)? If the latter, those reform school closures were in the very early 70s. By 1972, that was allegedly already a done deal. In reality, I believe there may have been a few who lagged behind schedule.

Some of those kids who would have previously ended up in reform schools, languished in detention centers or got sent to psychiatric institutions instead. Some lucky son-of-a-guns who straddled that changeover got sent to both in tandem. Hardly a time to celebrate "de-institutionalization," if you ask me...

[Ursus]

Here are some of the references that I dug up, allegedly tying you to Miller Newton:

First, here is what Wes Fager wrote:

In 1989 Layne Meacham, founder of Proctor Advocate, another Utah program based, in part, on the Straight model, was charged with abusing a 16 year old girl in Proctor Advocate. He was convicted of a misdemeanor but a judge overturned the conviction citing that the jury had made errors.[/list]

Next, from the 1989 article 'Tough Love' may be child abuse by Mike Carter (Associated Press):

And Proctor Advocate founder Layne Meacham faces charges he permitted the abuse of a 16-year-old girl by peer counselors. Meacham has testified he based his program partly on the teachings of the founder of KIDS.[/list]

Of course, getting the actual transcript of that case to see exactly, word for word, what you actually said in your testimony at that time, would clear this up in short order.

But here is another matter, perhaps of less interest to those in the camp of a Synanon/CEDU connection, but of great interest to me, and that is your use of the group confrontation by day/host homes by night modality. This has heretofore always been attributed to a Seed/Straight, Inc. source, but your usage of same has got me wondering...

Could you elaborate on that modality and your sources of inspiration for your programs?

[psy]

I'm interested too, Layne.  I've heard your program used host homes and certain other Straight hallmarks.  What was the program like, exactly, if you can describe it?  Were there multiple phases?  Were there "oldcomers" and "newcomers"?  Did kids write MIs on a regular basis?  Was the group style confrontational?

[Anonymous]

But here is another matter, perhaps of less interest to those in the camp of a Synanon/CEDU conspiracy theory,
?

The Sananon CEDU connection is not 'conspiracy theory;' at this point its established fact.

I'm not trying to find out if Wasserman or Deidrich had  influence on you, Lance. Just if you know anything about them.

They were your contemporaries, had similar interests(not saying you abused kids, just that you claimed an interest in helping kids through similar interventions) and you were in the basic same physical location physically, for awhile.

[Anonymous]

Many out of control youth who are using drugs, having sex with their dealers for drugs and generally conduct disordered have harbored resentments towards program providers. Isn't it time they grew out of their resentments and went on with their lives.

I am SO sick of pro-program people using the fact that there ARE troubled people, and DRUG addicted people as a maligned justification for the existence of these unethical behaviour modification programs.

Stop them ALL now so the focus can be on legitimate health centered facilities that help sick people instead of raping their entire existence.

You suck!