Author Topic: This forum, Now and then  (Read 37895 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2009, 01:08:44 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "GregFL"
At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.

Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

I wish you'd come steal Vic from that fireman!

 :rose:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2009, 01:21:48 PM »
Quote from: "control control control"
Control  Control Control , is this all anyone wants to do?????

Not I.

Honestly, I wasn't aware at the time of how much editing was going on. Mostly, I thought it was spam n so forth. And it was a pretty interesting conversation at times, I'll give ya that. But what happened to all of our Seed family members who bounced off the first time they noticed the censorship? Maybe we'll be hearing from some of them again soon.

On the other hand, Stack, don't assume too much about somebody based on their anger level. Honestly, I'm nowhere near as angry about the whole thing as you guys are. I was. Now I just keep pluggin' along at a casual, sustainable pace of muck raking.

And honestly, don't you miss the lizzards? Ya have to admit that the lizzards and the mocking birds were pretty damned cool.

 :peace:
In all things, moderation; including moderation!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2009, 03:19:35 PM »
[quote="psy] Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..[/quote]

Because you're writing the above makes it so?  You're no worse or better than the person you're attempting to educate with all your subjectivity.  Nor am I for responding to you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2009, 03:43:15 PM »
Quote from: "susantoo"
Quote from: "psy"
Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

Because you're writing the above makes it so?

Of course not. No more than Art's obit is true just because someone wrote it. Now, can you find any logical flaw in Psy's take?

[/quote]
Quote from: "susantoo"
You're no worse or better than the person you're attempting to educate with all your subjectivity.  Nor am I for responding to you.

I think that was a fairly objective statement about subjectivity and how to avoid it..... one to which you have obviously responded. That usually means your argument had no legs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Cyndeelouwho

  • Posts: 89
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2009, 03:46:57 PM »
Originally , I found this forum after reading information from other sources online related to the troubled child  (for profit) industry. I had some dialog via facebook with a few folks who have posted on here and read through the entire thread of archived posts under the seed discussion forum. I ws emotionally exhausted and mentally drained amd had a few rough nights (ask my husband)
I actually woke him up a time or two, yelling in my sleep , with clinched fists. He had no idea what was going on and asked if I was OK, I am OK but it was hell for a few days. I actually ripped the sheets running away , all in my sleep. This is not made up for attention, sympathy or any other reason, It is what happened to me after reading the posts many folks contributed back in 2001 to 2005.
I felt happy I had found this place but the anger poured out of me. I rented "over the GW", I read Marc P's. take (we were in together at T.P.), I laughed, I cried, I hated, all over again.
I have gone to therapy, I had worked it out, just as I did when my ten year old son passed away. I am not a mean person, I am not a bad person. I am a person who had mean and bad things happen to them.
And so did my younger brother and sister.
I read the rules of the forum and lurked around for several weeks, scared to post because maybe it was a set up. When it felt safe, I jumped in and maybe my words were biting and childish and vulgar, but like all of you "old timers", I was venting just as you did years before me.
When I was in hospice and grief counseling , I was told that people grieve in different ways, some get through it quickly, some take time, other repress it for as long as necessary. There were no hard and firm rule about getting through tragedy.
I guess I had held in all that stuff for so long and it was ready to come out.
I am completely aware that my captives are not reading this stuff and have moved on in their lifes or are so old , it doesn't matter. Those are not the people I was raging at. I was raging at the ones in charge then and who they were then and what they were allowed to do with no authority, training or concern for the outcome, except lining their pocket under the guise of helping children.
In reading the archive posts , I noticed similar sentiment and rage, obsession and expression. There was kidding around, talk of lawsuit, name calling to the guilty, threats, questions, posting of public data, encounters, sharing, thoughts, ideas; all unique to the poster at the time. There was even a little sarcasm and fantasy.
Being asked to leave and move on was a lot like being stood up and started over, for those of you that went through that.
I am not perfect, right, wrong, stupid, selfish, or a whore (some of you will get this)
I am just a former seedling who suffered at the hands of untrained and unqualified people who are long gone but should not ever be forgotten , even  if you do not agree with my perspective or my postings.
They should never be forgotten because this is where it all started .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2009, 04:22:20 PM »
Thanks sis, was nice to hear something that felt like it made sense to me,I Feel the same, I will be honest I could never forgive those souls that tormented me, I never will, I am happy you posted, always good to listen to the things you say, I cannot wait to see you next week, I like you have nothing to hide nor am I ashamed for what others did to us, the keys is where we will be soon, where before all this crap happened we use to go to as young kids, we will have to make your hubby roll down the hill at Greynolds park, the park I use to go sleep in as a child to forget about this horrible nightmare, we will toast to survival, and Life, and salute Antigen , she sounds like a really nice person, I was not kidding all are invited,  anyone else up for brunch, was thinking Rusty pelican, the lobster tails are delicious, well nice to see you posting,  and see you soon,  :rose: sister sue she loves you. :peace:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2009, 05:51:21 PM »
Quote
I think that was a fairly objective statement about subjectivity and how to avoid it..... one to which you have obviously responded. That usually means your argument had no legs.

See, there's no argument from me. It's called discussion. Sometimes words don't lead to arguments, Ginger/Antigen/Eudora. You need to learn this for your own sake. FWIW, here's my defintion of objective (which is what I was aiming for, so, thanks for recognizing it):

Not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2009, 06:05:37 PM »
Quote
Of course not. No more than Art's obit is true just because someone wrote it. Now, can you find any logical flaw in Psy's take?

When and where did I state there was a logical flaw in Psy's take? You are quite the little agitator, aren't you?  Ah, that's right. Muckraker is what you call yourself. Sometimes there is no muck to rake. Quit looking for it in every post or thread you read.

Re: the other issue of "Art's obit." I have no comment at this time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2009, 07:36:06 PM »
is susantoo chanting to self????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2009, 11:14:14 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "susantoo"
Quote from: "psy"
Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

. Now, can you find any logical flaw in Psy's take?



I could spend quite a bit of time picking it apart, especially his gratuitis re-definition of  the geneally accepted meaning of "forum troll" to suit his point, but generally the implication is 1) don't trust a leader, moderation is subjective and isn't 'fair' 2) trust a system instead, see the objective results!

This neglects the fact that the system can be manipulated, in absense of a leader ie: moderator , by people who want the system to fail, thereby rendering the system a failure.  Example a) this forum in its current state.

This neglects that if a forum wants an open discussion, and 100 people with opinion A pile on every new person with opinion B, that no constructive OPEN conversation will occur.

There is more butI will leave it here.


Moderating forums is tricky and can result in even worse results than an unmoderated forum if the forum leader is not benevolent and unbaised in his/her moderation.  In addition it is mostly less than thankless. you open yourself up to attacks continually deal with spam and idiots, and of course the pay is atrocious.  The net is swamped with examples of bad forums.  Forum moderation with rules that apply to everyone in my opinion yield the best results, especially when you want open conversation from all sides of a discussion.  The forum now obviously isn't looking for that and shouts down contrary opinions. It seems like you guys want a anti-program party and not a discussion, and that is fine.  Just please  if you have the time archive the forum at the point I left, and rename the new forum "I  hate the seed and dare you to come in here".   That would be more honest.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 11:52:52 PM by GregFL »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2009, 11:21:06 PM »
Greg you are no leader in my eyes, like I said lets see how long this goes on for, lol, I wonder if greg talks to self while sleeping? :roflmao:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2009, 11:23:05 PM »
Greg will never get it.  :wall:  :beat:  something tells me I may get stood up for this one. :roflmao:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2009, 10:36:10 AM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "control control control"
Control  Control Control , is this all anyone wants to do?????

Not I.

Honestly, I wasn't aware at the time of how much editing was going on. Mostly, I thought it was spam n so forth. And it was a pretty interesting conversation at times, I'll give ya that. But what happened to all of our Seed family members who bounced off the first time they noticed the censorship? Maybe we'll be hearing from some of them again soon.

On the other hand, Stack, don't assume too much about somebody based on their anger level. Honestly, I'm nowhere near as angry about the whole thing as you guys are. I was. Now I just keep pluggin' along at a casual, sustainable pace of muck raking.

And honestly, don't you miss the lizzards? Ya have to admit that the lizzards and the mocking birds were pretty damned cool.

 :peace:
In all things, moderation; including moderation!


From the FAQ:

What are Administrators?
Administrators are members assigned with the highest level of control over the entire board. These members can control all facets of board operation, including setting permissions, banning users, creating usergroups or moderators, etc., dependent upon the board founder and what permissions he or she has given the other administrators. They may also have full moderator capabilities in all forums, depending on the settings put forth by the board founder.
Top

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are Moderators?
Moderators are individuals (or groups of individuals) who look after the forums from day to day. They have the authority to edit or delete posts and lock, unlock, move, delete and split topics in the forum they moderate. Generally, moderators are present to prevent users from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material.

My second laugh for the day!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2009, 10:52:28 AM »
hey that faq only applies to people who werent abused by the seed.  They are special and need to be able to post threats and ruin a forum and act like children.  It is the only way they can heal.  Forget about your opinion it is hurting there little bruised feewings and if you interfere you love art barker and libby too and also abuse children.  If you really disagree than you must be libby's husband or worse even the great libby herself!


lol@thisforum
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: This forum, Now and then
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2009, 06:22:52 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Greg will never get it.  :wall:  :beat:  something tells me I may get stood up for this one. :roflmao:
                   I wrote this too Greg thebeer, lol, I did not know I  had to post my name, oh, duh, me, must be all my dumbness, lol, laughing my bum off really bad here.Greg please give it up, I told you there are 6 in my family, and you could never keep up. Oh did I mention I love my family.   Just not the seed way, ahahahaha, that could be me too, lol :roflmao:  :rose:  :roflmao:  :rose:  :roflmao:  :rose:  :bump:  do not look at the bump I just happen to love flowers, thanks to Antigen this place is still sane. :roflmao: LOVE YA GREG :moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :rose:  :peace:  I really do love the icons..... sigh...... :poison:  :poison:  :poison:  :poison:  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  :roflmao:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »