If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP

[Anonymous]

"I will not name names but I can tell you this is happening" is an immediate red flag. What is your statistical sample? How many people have you talked to? Because I've read enough Fornits to know that the words "my shrink recommended" almost never enter into it.

If real psychiatrists were actually referring to these hellholes en masse, we would see some gloating of it from the programmie side of things, naming names to promote themselves. We don't. We see uneducated edcons, not even claiming to have a lot education most of the time, receiving kickbacks instead. So all we have is your naked word that this is happening, in contradiction to all available evidence and common sense.

The education level of programmies is no greater than it was 20 years ago in the slightest. Diploma mills, unrelated degrees ("divinity", lol), and complete undereducation remain the norm.

There are no "people at the top" when it comes to this, by the way; real psychiatrists don't rank themselves and the APA has actually issued statements AGAINST this kind of "treatment". CAFETY link

Your attempt to redirect the energy of Fornits, which is apparently hurting you a LOT, has failed. Try again next universe.

[Troll Control]

Well then, reject the info and keep your hands over your ears, singing La La La as loud as you can and continue down the same path you have been going the past decade.

Hows that been working for you so far?

Let me translate:  "La La La" = "Ha Ha Ha"  Guess Who?

Just log in for Chrissakes, Who.

[TheWho]

We see uneducated edcons

My point exactly.  That is you only focus.  Yes they do the lions share of the placements but the credibility is coming from top people in the field who are promoting Therapeutic Boarding Schools as a solution to dealing with “at risk” youths.  If you really believe that uneducated edcons are driving this industry then you are missing the boat big time.

[Troll Control]

We see uneducated edcons

My point exactly.  That is you only focus.  Yes they do the lions share of the placements but the credibility is coming from top people in the field who are promoting Therapeutic Boarding Schools as a solution to dealing with “at risk” youths.  If you really believe that uneducated edcons are driving this industry then you are missing the boat big time.

Man, The Who is in such a rush to post about himself in his thread that his spelling and grammar fell apart in this other thread he's trying to troll at the same time.  Tighten up, Who.  You can do better than this.  "You're missing the boat"?  WTF??  You traded in "Raped kids are funny" for "You're missing the boat"?  Dude, you're losing it.  You have a rep around here to live up to, man.  This don't cut it.

[Ursus]

For whats its worth:  

Well, I will not name names, but I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

The University of Michigan is also well respected in the mental health field.  The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think.  If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.

I am curious ... why the University of Michigan? Is it an academic center you are most familiar with, or is it specifically Michigan for other reasons? I am not a mental health professional, so I really have no clue. I can see that they certainly have a vast medical system...

This may be a bit of a stretch, and perhaps but of peripheral relevance, but I did find it interesting that the Research Center for Group Dynamics (originally at MIT) set up shop at the University of Michigan after Kurt Lewin died... And that the social psychology program of Michigan's Department of Psychology was housed within the RCGD 'till about 14 years ago...

At the time Kurt Lewin died, if I recall correctly, he and the RCGD were in the middle of setting up National Training Labs in Bethel, Maine. That project continued after his death. NTL has enjoyed considerable collaboration and philosophical alliance with the Tavistock Institute in the UK. Tavistock, if you recall, is where the first intentional therapeutic communities are alleged to have been created, i.e., during the Northfield Experiments (1939, 1942), for the purpose of returning psychologically scarred soldiers back onto the battlefield, rather than home on psych leave.

lol... Talk about TC origins...

[Troll Control]

For whats its worth:  

Well, I will not name names, but I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

The University of Michigan is also well respected in the mental health field.  The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think.  If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.

I am curious ... why the University of Michigan? Is it an academic center you are most familiar with, or is it specifically Michigan for other reasons? I am not a mental health professional, so I really have no clue. I can see that they certainly have a vast medical system...

Is it of potential relevance that the Research Center for Group Dynamics (originally at MIT) set up shop at the University of Michigan after Kurt Lewin died? Or that the social psychology program of Michigan's Department of Psychology was housed within the RCGD 'till about 14 years ago?

Ask if her name is "Anne" or "Ottawa5".  Will she name those names

[Anonymous]

I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

Bullshit

The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think.

Bullshit

If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

Bullshit

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.

Bullshit

Gues, guest speaks the truth. I was refered (to my death) by acredited, properly educated srhinks.

[TheWho]

For whats its worth:  

Well, I will not name names, but I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

The University of Michigan is also well respected in the mental health field.  The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think.  If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.

I am curious ... why the University of Michigan? Is it an academic center you are most familiar with, or is it specifically Michigan for other reasons? I am not a mental health professional, so I really have no clue. I can see that they certainly have a vast medical system...

Is it of potential relevance that the Research Center for Group Dynamics (originally at MIT) set up shop at the University of Michigan after Kurt Lewin died? Or that the social psychology program of Michigan's Department of Psychology was housed within the RCGD 'till about 14 years ago?

I actually don’t know, I am not a mental health professional either.  I believe it is well respected and prominent.  I have spoken of my contact at University of Michigan to others in the field and the response and conversation that develops lends me to believe that it is a center for the field (one of many maybe) but a center  and important one none the less.  I don’t have many friends in the field but have noticed that when I mention I have a relative who has a private practice, is a professor and lectures at the university of Michigan I get a response which leads me to the above conclusion.  Someone in the field may know the answer.  Maybe it is his name and not the University which seems to demand attention.

Any readers want to respond,  or maybe Dysfunction Junction would know.  I would be curious to know more myself.

[Anonymous]

For whats its worth:  

Well, I will not name names, but I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

The University of Michigan is also well respected in the mental health field.  The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think.  If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.

I am curious ... why the University of Michigan? Is it an academic center you are most familiar with, or is it specifically Michigan for other reasons? I am not a mental health professional, so I really have no clue. I can see that they certainly have a vast medical system...

This may be a bit of a stretch, and perhaps but of peripheral relevance, but I did find it interesting that the Research Center for Group Dynamics (originally at MIT) set up shop at the University of Michigan after Kurt Lewin died... And that the social psychology program of Michigan's Department of Psychology was housed within the RCGD 'till about 14 years ago...

At the time Kurt Lewin died, if I recall correctly, he and the RCGD were in the middle of setting up National Training Labs in Bethel, Maine. That project continued after his death. NTL has enjoyed considerable collaboration and philosophical alliance with the Tavistock Institute in the UK. Tavistock, if you recall, is where the first intentional therapeutic communities are alleged to have been created, i.e., during the Northfield Experiments (1939, 1942), for the purpose of returning psychologically scarred soldiers back onto the battlefield, rather than home on psych leave.

lol... Talk about TC origins...

BETTER QUOTE. I think Ursus went back in to edit and got quoted before his edited submit.

[psy]

Ask if her name is "Anne" or "Ottawa5".  Will she name those names

You're thinking of Anne From Minnesota (ST name for Ottawa5).  She was a big CEDU fan before she got her license to practice (assuming she's telling the truth that she actually has one).  She's also a big fan of Landmark Forum (EST), though considering how much she was a fan of Mel Wasserman's seminars, there is really no surprise there.

[pII]

I know I said I would not be back, but that was primarily to avoid this kind of thing.  However I really think it's important to clarify some things here.

1.  This business is not being "promoted" by psychiatrists on any level as the best solution for "at risk" teens.  

2.  The Cafety post, while good, is not really a statement by the APA condeming TBS's, but types of treatments and tortures...

3.  Some of these places have pyschologists on board who are fully affiliated with the APA.

4.  The APA is an organization which NEEDS to be educated about what these places really do and the types of "therapies" they use and the discredited nature of these therapies, which is why I hope people like Psy and now, I think, Ursus, really need to be out there doing some educational work, citing studies, in as dispassionate a way as possible.  The less emotion the better in this case.  And no words like "bullshit" because they make you less credible, whether they should or should not.

5. Nobody is referring anyone "en masse" anywhere.  Psychiatrists do not make placements all the time, or even all that often, so there is no way they could be driving this business.  I was simply saying they sometimes do.  Sometimes.  In my opinion, that's too many times.

But don't turn this into some kind of thing where people are not trying to say this is a good solution to teen issues, because I don't really think anyone is on record here saying it is.

The other thing, to the antagonistic poster.  I'm sure you felt offended, but it is really important to remember here that these are people who have been damaged in unimaginable ways by this industry.  Some of them seem to have lost thier lives to this.  Of course they are angry and suspicious.  It only makes sense.

I hope you guys will put together as much relevent scientific evidence as you can, as many case studies as you can get ahold of, and get this information out there in the most professional and credible way that you can.  In addition to everything else you are doing, I think it would help your cause.

Now, I really am leaving.  (Unless someone tries to turn this into some sort of endorsement or something.  In which case I suppose I'll be back to be clear again that I am a NO! vote on this stuff.)  And a yes vote at the very least for exceeding stringent oversight.

[Ursus]

4. The APA is an organization which NEEDS to be educated about what these places really do and the types of "therapies" they use and the discredited nature of these therapies...

My guess is that the APA is a hard nut to crack. Perhaps not even crackable. If they were split down the middle when it came time to absorb the info Margaret's Singer's group was going to present on cults, my guess is that they will be similarly divided when it comes to this stuff. Which is, I might add, probably not a mere coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone here remember that poster named Paul?

[Anonymous]

Does anyone here remember that poster named Paul?

I do, seems like it was just two pages ago...

[Anonymous]

Does anyone here remember that poster named Paul?

I do, seems like it was just two pages ago...

Why do you ask?