Author Topic: agent provocateurs among us  (Read 2636 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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agent provocateurs among us
« on: January 04, 2009, 06:32:52 PM »
it looks like the programs are getting worried and sending out their workers to fornits.  the new threads talking about taking violent revenge on programs and now a new one with someone trying to sell drugs. this is an attempt to discredit fornits and anti program people in general as a bunch of drug addicted & violent no-goodniks.

please don't post in these kind of threads that give this site negative attention or make people question if this site is reliable. just ignore them, it would be better if the admins would delete them please.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2009, 07:27:04 PM »
While I agree that people should always be cautious, especially about giving out their addresses and information to strangers, technically Salvia is perfectly legal (and, indeed, we have a link to a site that sells Salvia and other Entheogens in the ad rotation).  As far as whether there are agent provocateurs on Fornits? I'm almost positive that is the case, however the administration would be wrong to go witch hunting and say who is who (not that it is known).  The general philosophy of Ginger as the site owner here (as I understand it, and I cannot speak for her) is that people should be responsible for what they post and cautious about what they hear, as with anywhere else.

My advice to those everybody, regardless of whether on Fornits or anywhere else is: be careful who you trust.  Be wise.  Things are often not as they seem on the surface (though sometimes they are).
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2009, 07:30:12 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
the new threads talking about taking violent revenge on programs and now a new one with someone trying to sell drugs.

Wha? Where?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 01:14:38 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
While I agree that people should always be cautious, especially about giving out their addresses and information to strangers, technically Salvia is perfectly legal (and, indeed, we have a link to a site that sells Salvia and other Entheogens in the ad rotation).  .

lol. This entire website is a fake run by the industry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 01:36:07 AM »
hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway...  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2009, 03:14:19 AM »
this sounds way too much like a conspiracy theory... what would they be discrediting us for anyway? the lawsuits we cant even get into court? or to the program parents that are well past any ability to be reasoned with anyway... for what exactly?... if we all pretty much post anon, even under a registered account we are still not sharing our names or IP address what possible way could they hold anything against us? individually or the site as a whole?

we seriously need to get a smiley with a tin hat on his head... lol

 :ftard: <----- this guy w/ ::tin hat::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 04:42:20 AM »
Look, some people have a reason to be paranoid. Others are paranoid because they have nothing better to do with their time. Give the OP some benefits of the doubt and lay off his/her ass.

For all you know they might be right, but then for all you know they might have been the one who started the salvia and kil programmie threads in the first place. Either way there is no reason why they need to be heckled or belittled in anyway. Be better than that and save it for someone truly worthy of it.

Like Kevin or Blombro.
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 06:46:45 PM »
Ok ok. Im not totally against the idea... it just sounds like a conspiracy theory, a theory that could very well be true.

Yea, Im honestly shocked to see people posting about killing people. I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.

As well most of us dont even do drugs.

So he could have a point.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
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[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Anonymous

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no justice, no peace
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 07:53:38 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.
Some are already dead! The bodycount will continue to rise if there is no justice!!!
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Offline Antigen

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2009, 08:28:28 PM »
Quote from: "[url=http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=320695#p320695
Pirate[/url]"]Well, the point is not that justice doesn't exist, but that it's only possible in the present. You can act justly toward others or not, but what's been done cannot be undone and what was done unjustly cannot be made just. It's just done. Aint it ??

I think so, bro. I do think so. Little to be done for those already damaged except to treat them as justly as we can from here on out. If justice be done to the entire ToughLove hate group, why I guess that would mean no more new victims to be unjustly treated and thereby encouraged to go postal at some future point.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »
The insanity here must be contagious. There are only a handful of people who ever find and read this forum. Even less take it seriously enough to come back and post on a regular basis. This industry has dealt with tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of youths. Where are they? Most people have internet access now. You really got to wonder, if programs were as abusive and torturous as some here claim why wouldn't there be more people posting about it? As far as I can tell, the anti program "movement" is a half dozen people with different websites and acronyms which accomplish nothing other than online bantering. This small core group of "activists" can't even get along for more than 5  minutes, your cause is hopeless if that is any indication. So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs. It's easy to sit on a computer and bitch about how difficult life was in the past, lots of people have blogs and do just that. But you think people care so much about this forum that they will send spies, come on and take a reality check please. Nobody cares about this forum other than yourselves, just in case you hadn't figured that out yet. Come on people, you are getting the point of being just sad. Are you trying to get pity from readers, is that it? If so bravo, because you come across like some sorry helpless people with mental illness desperately needing meds. You just need to accept the fact that you were just an unlucky few who had to deal with angry staff, and most people aren't treated that badly. If they were they'd be here all angry just like you are. More kids die in swimming pools than in programs every year, and you know what the parents might even feel that swimming should be outlawed if that happens to their family. But it doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. Get out of our way, and let us in the pool. The water's fine.
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Offline psy

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 09:05:04 PM »
There are over 4000 registered posters on this site.  Not a dozen.  There are thousands and thousands of allegations of abuse on this site, many of which have been substantiated by the courts or the more recent GAO investigation and hearings on the matter.  There are nearly 300 thousand posts on this site.

Just because some abuse survivors don't have the strength or hope to stick around here long term and hash things out doesn't at ALL mean that abuse doesn't happen.  Many deal with their pain and move on.  A few decide to stick around and help others so it doesn't keep happening.

A while back I wrote about 9 reasons to answer why so few come forward.  I'll see if I can find it.  It answers most of your questions.

In the mean time, I suggest you read some of the GAO reports on the matter, or watch a few videos:

http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmGgH11Dmk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQ5AKk_QR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5gjsuTD1E
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 10:55:08 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs.

I know at least a hundred other girls from the facility that I went to that either barely ever get on the internet or simply don't have any interest in using a forum, yet NONE of them are pro program. As Psy said most of them just choose to stuff the memories down and move on with their lives. A lot of them have kids now and demanding careers and the last thing they have time for is to post on a forum about something that happened to them 6-8 years ago. Honestly I can respect that, because the work we are doing here takes A LOT of effort and its something we do for free. I honestly couldn't imagine having to juggle this and a baby and a full time career, so I cant expect that from them. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to be able to work from home like I and a few others on this board do, as well many people are not as technically inclined as we have become. I can personally admit that Fornits seems like a scary mess of a forum when to a newcomer so I can't expect too many people to jump right in with us either. For the most part, Fornits is for the wind weathered veterans and although newbies and onlookers will post from time to time its not really the "support group" type of forum you would need in order to draw in the massive numbers of survivors out there.

I have been speaking out about the program since the day I got out, however I have a semi unique story... and the majority of the detainees of the facility I went to were not physically abused like I was... because the program only targets a select few kids that they can make an example of to keep the rest fearful enough not to question their authority. I believe strongly that this tactic helps them to discredit those who have spoken out about the abuse because for every person who says that they were physically abused there are 10 people who say they weren't. BUT I must point out that rarely do you come across an ex detainee that claims that these abusive tactics didn't exist, they might think it was good for them or that those who were abused deserved it, which in my opinion is a sadistic perspective but the FACT that the abuse exists in these programs never changes.

If what your saying is an accurate assumption, that our small group on this board is insignificant, then why have the programs sued us, hacked us, trolled us (as you have lol) and made their own sites to refute our claims and discredit us. The reason is because since we have channeled our efforts to provide the TRUTH about these programs, enrollment is WAY DOWN and the pull rate is WAY UP. Programs are losing money because their actions in the past have earned them a less than stellar reputation. Whats to say they wont start watching their asses now that we have made a stink about it, which ended up hitting them where it hurts, their pocket books. Now that a decent amount of foreign programs have been shut down, they might not have any choice but to STOP abusing kids. So in essence, if you have had a positive experience with the program it is probably because we have been hard at work to force them to change their ways. I will never advocate a program, but if anyone is doing anything right these days its because we PROVED to them the error of their ways. Some staff have even come here to apologize and have joined our movement, so why would they put their reputation on the line if we weren't making a difference here?...

Your probably a hit and run poster so I wont waste any more time on you, but honestly I suggest you take a good look at the big picture and re-educate yourself on this subject. Someday, these programs will be outlawed and the general public will all be aware of the dangers of the private teen prison industry and our years of dedication will have stood for the most precious gift we could offer our future generations. By then, you will probably have moved on yourself, involved with your own selfish triumphs and failures yet our efforts will have made a difference for the future and made this world a safer more loving place to live in.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline psy

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 11:01:44 PM »
Another thing that might not get mentioned:  not all kids even realize they were abused.  As far as they often know (with no other concept of legitimate therapy), many of them might think of what happend to them as actually "therapy" as they were told, or beneficial in some sense.  Many of them swallow the program's shtick hook, line and sinker, in that regard.

Another point: This site is unmoderated.  If programs were really that beneficial, you don't think this site would be overpopulated with people praising the program?  Don't you think if it were truly the case that these programs helped people that this site would be inundated with people protecting the places that "saved their lives".  There is nothing stopping that from happening.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 11:15:17 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Ok ok. Im not totally against the idea... it just sounds like a conspiracy theory, a theory that could very well be true.

Yea, Im honestly shocked to see people posting about killing people. I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.

As well most of us dont even do drugs.

So he could have a point.

It isn't whether he/she has a point or not. Agree or disagree that's up to you. Just don't belittle him/her for having a point of view. Save that sort of thing for those who deserve it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »