Youth facility officials don't know cause of teen's death

[Anne Bonney]

.. the words used were bribed and coerced in reference to the coroner.

Yes, but it still doesn't explain how you are conflating that with "us" saying that having kids play basketball is abusive.  No one said it but you insisted that we did.

Pile used the words bribed and coerced in regard to the coroner.  If there was some history of this coroner being bribed then I could see the concern.  but this was never established.  People allow comments like this to get passed through and accepted at face value while others like Basketball is abusive does not.

So the reader can easily see the double standard of which implied statement got picked out for review.  This in itself is interesting.

Now you're reaching.  Again.

[Whooter]

Now you're reaching.  Again.

I know.  I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits.  I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words.  Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.

Another poster can come on and say:  “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol  And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.

I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is.  I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs.  But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.



...

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Anne, stop wasting your time with it. We know that local-yokel coroners in areas with a strong program presence always tell the truth.

It's either the coroner or the news organizations simply not reporting, which is even more disturbing. Because nobody just dies. In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.

Apparently Eckerds is a place where kids just randomly keel over and die, and everybody in the area's cool with that.

[Anne Bonney]

Now you're reaching.  Again.

I know.  I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits.  I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words.  Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.

Another poster can come on and say:  “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol  And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.

I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is.  I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs.  But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.

Because, unlike you, we've actually been subjected to programs and know what goes on behind closed doors.  You will never be able to understand the effect on the psyche that it has.  As we've said countless times (at least I know I have)....when I first got out of Straight, I swore allegiance to it and believed that it "saved my life".  It wasn't until I had some time away from the extreme isolation and groupthink and some exposure to the real world and some decent, true therapy that I began to see and understand what happened to me.  We who have been on the inside recognize the loaded language.  You, as an outsider, would not.  We, who have been on the inside, know that the stuff you call outrageous or 'remarkable' are entirely possible because so many of us experienced it ourselves at various programs that utilize the "therapeutic community" or "positive peer pressure" approach.  It's all soooooo similar.  I was reading the article about Elan just a bit ago and could have written it myself about Straight.  The common factors in these places are too much to be isolated incidents and are quite scary to those of us who have been subjected to it.

[Whooter]

Anne, stop wasting your time with it. We know that local-yokel coroners in areas with a strong program presence always tell the truth.

It's either the coroner or the news organizations simply not reporting, which is even more disturbing. Because nobody just dies. In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.

Apparently Eckerds is a place where kids just randomly keel over and die, and everybody in the area's cool with that.

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Thats funny I rest my case.  Eckerd is found guilty,  Maybe the coroner was bribed after all! lol

Classic, thank you Pile.  Perfect Timing.



...

[Anne Bonney]

Because nobody just dies.

Yeah, sometimes they do.  I had a neighbor who was healthy all thru life that dropped dead on the college soccer field due to an undiagnosed aneurysm.  It's not common, but not unheard of.  Now, if this were one of the "death by hiking" situations, I'd be much more apt to believe off the bat that the program had some involvement.  They might have here as well, I don't know yet.

In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.

Yeah, I agree that there needs to be an investigation.

[Whooter]

Now you're reaching.  Again.

I know.  I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits.  I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words.  Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.

Another poster can come on and say:  “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol  And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.

I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is.  I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs.  But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.

Because, unlike you, we've actually been subjected to programs and know what goes on behind closed doors.  You will never be able to understand the effect on the psyche that it has.  As we've said countless times (at least I know I have)....when I first got out of Straight, I swore allegiance to it and believed that it "saved my life".  It wasn't until I had some time away from the extreme isolation and groupthink and some exposure to the real world and some decent, true therapy that I began to see and understand what happened to me.  We who have been on the inside recognize the loaded language.  You, as an outsider, would not.  We, who have been on the inside, know that the stuff you call outrageous or 'remarkable' are entirely possible because so many of us experienced it ourselves at various programs that utilize the "therapeutic community" or "positive peer pressure" approach.  It's all soooooo similar.  I was reading the article about Elan just a bit ago and could have written it myself about Straight.  The common factors in these places are too much to be isolated incidents and are quite scary to those of us who have been subjected to it.

Well said, fair enough.  I can see your point of view and how you got there.



...

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Whooter, guilty of what crime? The sheriff's department didn't even investigate. And why would they, really? What possible interest could Florida authorities have in another dead kid? Why would Florida news organizations bother to follow up? It's not like the kid's life had any meaning or substance whatsoever; just another body for the Pile. Business as usual.

Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."

[Anne Bonney]

Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."

Agreed, totally.  It needs to be investigated.

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Oh, geez, don't I feel silly. I didn't look at the picture. Now I know why nobody investigated it. He was BLACK! Duh. Don't we have enough of them running around as it is? And storing dead niggers ain't my fuckin... oh, wait, I guess it is.

[Whooter]

Whooter, guilty of what crime? The sheriff's department didn't even investigate. And why would they, really? What possible interest could Florida authorities have in another dead kid? Why would Florida news organizations bother to follow up? It's not like the kid's life had any meaning or substance whatsoever; just another body for the Pile. Business as usual.

Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."

Of course it should be investigated.  But because it wasn’t posted in the paper doesn’t mean there is a cover up or that it wasn’t investigated.  Usually it means the opposite in my experience.  What most likely happened is the coroner’s report came out and the results were not news worthy.  If they found the kid was abused, died of a rare disease, something interesting or came from a rich family then they would have had a follow-up story.  But another kid dying of an enlarged heart or genetic defect maybe didn’t make the cut that week as far as publishing.  Maybe the kidnapped Florida girl got the headlines that week and by the time that died down this boys death was old news.  There could be many reasons.



...

[Ursus]

I believe this is Kevin Cristie's official obituary; I've been unable to find any other mention of him or his death in the news archives:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

St. Petersburg Times

Epilogue | Kevin Christie
Teen left behind his hopes for a second change

Andrew Meacham, Times staff writer
In Print: Saturday, November 15, 2008



TEMPLE TERRACE — For a year inside the Orient Road Jail, Kevin Christie reassured his family that everything would be okay. He had screwed up and was paying the consequences. But just wait, Kevin predicted — he would make them proud.

But just as he was entering the final phase of his detention, Kevin collapsed while playing basketball and later died on Friday, his second full day at a juvenile rehabilitation center in Okeechobee. He was 16.

"He was the type of person who when he was right would defend himself, or when he was wrong he would say, 'Okay, I was wrong,' " said family friend Alejo Vickers, 23.

Friends say Kevin remained upbeat despite the absence of his parents in recent years. His father was arrested and deported to Jamaica several years ago. Two years ago, Kevin's mother returned to Jamaica.

He stayed with relatives and friends while attending King High in Tampa. He completed chores and obeyed curfews, said Dana Hamilton, a friend's mother who took Kevin in. He composed rap music and talked of going into the music business.

Everyone has a theory about what went wrong. Some point to the rootlessness of his haphazard living arrangements. Others say Kevin was quick to bond with those he admired, whether they were good or bad.

In October 2007, Kevin was arrested for armed burglary, a felony, and other offenses. Over the next year he complained about the food to his aunt and showed off his grades from alternative school.

"He was brilliant and smart, an 'A' student," said Deonne Crewe, 41. "He just made one bad mistake."

On Nov. 5, Kevin was transferred to the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee. At 6 p.m. on Friday, authorities say, he leaned over during a basketball game to assist a player who had fallen — and collapsed.

Two staffers rushed to perform CPR, said Frank Penela, a spokesman for the state's Department of Juvenile Justice. Paramedics transferred Kevin to Raulerson Hospital, where he died at 7:20 p.m.

Autopsy results from the Okeechobee County Medical Examiner's Office are pending and could take weeks. The Okeechobee County Sheriff's Office is not investigating the case, spokesman Ted Van Deman said.

Kevin has passed a physical just a day before the game, said Karen Bonsignori of the Eckerd facility. Nothing in his file indicated a prior medical condition, she said.

Hours before he died, Kevin left a message through a legal guardian. "He said, 'Tell my family I love them and to pray for me.' " Crewe recalled. " 'In no time they'll see me again.' "

Andrew Meacham can be reached at (813) 661-2431 or ameacham@sptimes.com.

Biography

Kevin O. Christie
Born: Nov. 22, 1991.
Died: Nov. 7, 2008.
Survivors: sister, Kerryann; brother, Kareem; mother, Denise Crew: father, Kevin Christie.
Service: To be arranged.[/list]

[Last modified: Nov 14, 2008 09:50 PM]


Copyright 2010 St. Petersburg Times

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Yup, an enlarged heart isn't newsworthy- just ask James White, already part of the Pile. And then the same coroner, Gary Kirchner, diagnosed Joey Aletriz (another proud Pile member) with the exact same thing, just two months later! Boy, these Florida kids just kind of have all these heart attacks when exercising, don't they? Never mind that a forensic pathologist that the family hired found out that Joey had a number of contusions and bruises on his body signifying death by restraint.

That also reminds me of what Charles F. Sieber, Jr. originally reported about Martin Lee Anderson's death (oh hey, another Pile member): Sickle cell trait. Yup. Sickle cell trait. That's exactly what did it. The beating he received beforehand was just incidental.

[Whooter]

Yup, an enlarged heart isn't newsworthy- just ask James White, already part of the Pile. And then the same coroner, Gary Kirchner, diagnosed Joey Aletriz (another proud Pile member) with the exact same thing, just two months later! Boy, these Florida kids just kind of have all these heart attacks when exercising, don't they? Never mind that a forensic pathologist that the family hired found out that Joey had a number of contusions and bruises on his body signifying death by restraint.

Its news worthy up here in Massachusetts because we read about it when it occurs.  We had two kids die within the same school district even.  This isn’t unique to Florida or to Residential Treatment Centers.  As I remember it almost always occurred when the kids were currently involved in a sporting activity at the time.  If the coroner had a history of being bribed then I could see being concerned.  But I haven’t seen that written anywhere yet.



...

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Guess what the medical examiner's office listed as the cause of death for Kevin. Ready? "Cardiac dysrhythmia due to myocardial hypertrophy, etiology undetermined". PM me if you want to know where I got this, it wouldn't be polite for me to help send morons up his ass.

Translation from Medical: An enlarged heart. Again. Hot shit, what are the odds? It's a fucking plague.

Oh and the coroner this time was Roger Mittleman, who has some... interesting.. articles on him from when he was in Miami.