Anne com'on be fair. I know you don't like AA and that is fair but to say this well I find you much more intelligent and emotionally mature.
I appreciate that.
I am powerless over person, places and things if I give them the power, your right. I gave alcohol that everytime I drank, I never knew what the hell was going to happen towards the end. I don't feel powerless at all or believe AA ever taught or asked me to do this, not the AA I know.
It says it in the first step, as well as many other places in the literature.
AA filled a major vacuum in my life after drugs, alcohol, women, smoking, gambling and crime was taken out.
And that's exactly my point. It's trading one crutch for another. But....I've said before, and I believe, that AA can be a source of strength for a time...a social support system, and I'm fine with that. Hanging out with people who aren't drinking/using...I get that. What I have a problem with are the actual steps, 12 & 12, big book, sponsors etc. They all seem to teach that the "self" is wrong/bad/negative. I think that's destructive and it's also where I compare it to programs. Straight taught us that our instincts were wrong/bad and that damaged me more than I can explain.
I was lost and felt very powerless, all those things above gave me all my power, very sick.
I felt powerless, AA did not ask me to be this way or stay this way. All AA asked me to do was find a power greater then me.
What's wrong with you?
Well I did, "I" with Gods help, friends and family built a wonder life, more then I could ever imagine.
That's great!....but YOU did that...not god, not AA, not even family or friends. Sure, they can be of help, supporting you, encouraging you and again...that part I have no problem with. But these people that continue in AA after years, decades even have just traded one crutch for another, IMO. And I've seen countless marriages break up because one spouse didn't want to become involved in AA or Alanon, so the sponsor advised the sponsee to end the marriage because the spouse "threatened their sobriety".
Anne I appreciate what you have to say and I do not believe yourself and I have to agree. That would be tantamount to anarchy here on this site...lol.
AA has it's place as yours, Psy's and others. Lets just try to be fair, I have to also.
Danny
I agree, just dont;' think I was being "unfair" as that's been my experience with AA and has been confirmed (for me at least) by the research I've done on it these last years.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
OK.. OK... I get it now,
Were having a spiritual difference of opinion here. Anne I don't have a problem saying God, my friends and my family helped me to do this, they did especially when I could not. No Anne, I did not do it for a long while there in the beginning, believe me. It is OK for one to have a crutch at times in life, I am not talking about co-dependency.
The AA I know does not teach dependency, crutches or co-dependency, it teaches interdependence that is healthy.
I am so concerned that this message is lost. I do not like AA being used they way it is in treatment centers, the judicial system ect.... It is being abused. I also believe because of this misuse of the AA principles from all these outside facilities and organizations, AA has come under such intense scrutiny and criticism that it does not deserve. Why AA does not stand up for itself

? Because they do not want to be dragged into politics, publicity or any other distraction from its traditions. Yes there are folks out there speaking for what they think AA is ect....but the AA I know is "Anonymous" and always will be in there actions.
Anne I can not answer why we have people (sponsors) in AA telling folks to divorce, don't take medication, don't go to concerts, do date for the first year, sit down and shut up for 6 mons, I have heard this shit for years. I don't say these things, they would make me feel creepy and others I know feel the same way, all this shit we felt came from treatment centers, jails and institutions. I learned about AA from the street (so to speak) not through a treatment center.
Anyway enjoy the conversation and hope to have more.
Danny