General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
Wow, obama is going to win
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---No, but if there are allegations of abuse against a program, you sure won't tell parents about it, now will you? It seems like the bottom line has taken precedence over the welfare of the kids and families. Not sure how you rationalize that away, but it's your conscience, not mine. So you got into this to help kids, you say?
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Where did that come from? I stated that we don’t refer to certain web sites. We don’t with hold any information which we feel is credible or would impact placement or a childs welfare.
--- Quote ---Sorry. I'm not trying to judge, but it's hard not to when you're more or less admitting you stand by and let parents send their kids into potentially dangerous situations without full knowledge. Letting something happen when you could stop it is just as bad as participating directly. Sure you don't have a legal responsibility to tell them, maybe... but ethical? Moral? Human? These parents trust you with their kids. The least you can give them is a fully informed decision.
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You misunderstood what I have said. If you have read what I have said so far you would know that I always put the kids first. If I felt they were going to be in any danger I would not be part of the referral and would try to stopit. I have done it in the past.
--- Quote ---What do I do? Well. if the parents get to me, they've already heard the industry's side of things. I just present the "other side" and I don't particularly pretend to be un-biased, either. When I explain things to parents, I say "you may have heard this, and here is the counterargument...". I always address both sides. You have to if you're going to change minds. My job is to un-balance, things, the way I see it, and I'm pretty up-front about that.
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Actually your job as a humanitarian is to be fair and open, Michael. If you withhold information you could deny a child getting the help he/she needs. I could take the same position as you and assume the parents have already read all the bad stuff about programs. I don’t need to refer them to fornits or “tales from the gulag” or warn them about the dangers, I can assume they already know that like you do.
--- Quote ---As long as it doesn't conflict with a school you refer to, right? Think about it.
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You are very wrong in accusing me this way and you know it. You want others to be honest but you live by your own rules, think about it. I am surprised of all people you would acuse others without knowing them.
FemanonFatal2.0:
I understand that you might fear for your job if you answer this honestly, but for the sake of the greater good I hope that you may lead by example here.
What if, a referral or "ed-con" service existed that was on first priority dedicated to protecting the rights and ensuring the welfare of the children it placed. Enough to become the ONLY referral service that 100% guaranteed that any child placed by them would not be abused or the parent would be assisted with the help of the company to take legal action against the offending staff or program. What if the programs were under strict regulation contract by this referral company that included specific principals of good practice, extensive background checks, unannounced visits and access to Child Protective Services and possibly a security system. What if licensing, health codes, medical, psychological and educational standards were all strictly enforced, and a "tough love" program were converted to a "real love" program. Would you work for a company that upheld these values? and furthermore, how could you work for a company that does not? especially when teen's lives are at stake here.
I just wanted to let you know that I have plans to create a parent site, a site that will essentially spoon feed this information in a way that they are able to take seriously. I can't change the stories of the individuals who wrote about their experience but I would be willing to post stories from students who felt that the program did some good, and allow the parent to weigh the pros and cons. IN FACT I could also include a worksheet they can use to do their research to properly evaluate the pros and cons. My only concern is that some parents are so desperate to get their child into treatment that they are not willing to put in the time it takes to do the proper screening, instead they hire someone like you to do that job for them. I would be much happier to see you and all Ed-Con's alike to develop a proper investigation process and refuse to refer to any school that has allegations of abuse against them. I would also recommend you put your foot down with referring to a program run by staff that have allegations of abuse against them or ran any programs that had similar problems. Making a moral statement like, "Abuse is not something we will tolerate!" and only give your business to the schools that really are doing it right. If this isn't something your office can handle, I recommend that you encourage them to hire a team who can. Hell, hire me. This is a plan I hope can be developed in conjunction with government regulation, and I intend to be part of that team, but as that hasn't become a reality yet, I wouldn't mind giving your "team" some pointers if they are willing.
I can only hope something good come of all this. I am sorry if you have felt attacked, it is our nature after all, to distrust. But I do believe that you are a good person, however misguided you may be, I believe there is hope that you are willing to do the right thing.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---How is ISACCORP in direct conflict? All they try to do is provide objective information warning parents of substantiated accounts of abuse, not to mention warning signs about programs. Are you telling me that if a parent came to you and you knew there was information on ISAC about a school you refer to, you wouldn't let them know about... It just seems to me like that's trying to be a bit deceptive to parents.. hiding information. What do you tell them if they ask if there have been any allegations of abuse?
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--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---We are not in agreement with all the schools on their list and some of the dialog so we don’t refer to it. We don’t withhold information. We are not hiding anything. There are areas we don’t agree with. How many times do you refer people to strugglingteens.com? or promote positive aspects of programs? Would you consider that deceptive? I can honestly say that I inform parents with as much credible information as I can provide to help them make a decision.
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1.) "Some of the dialog" on IsacCorp is objectionable? Is there any "dialog" on IsacCorp? Seems to me that for the most part it is just people's testimony in the form of sworn statements, court documents, and news articles, etc. Whatever informative portions that IsacCorp is responsible for writing are incredibly restrained, if anything. Certainly there is no "dialog." It doesn't sound like "KathyS" has ever been to their website.
2.) How is not referring parents to IsacCorp NOT equivalent to withholding information on a particular program, when you know that there is information on that particular program on IsacCorp? This sounds to me like typical spin marketing, where an incorrect inference about a product is brought about by the deliberate omission of some actually very relevant information. While not technically a lie, the desired associations and impressions brought about in the consumer are a lie. Some might even call it fraudulent advertising.
3.) As to material from Struggling Teens, there is actually quite a lot of it posted here on fornits, complete with links. Doesn't sound so "deceptive" to me. It sounds like "KathyS" has actually done very little reading on fornits prior to her entrance via the ruse of gool ol' Martha!
Anonymous:
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 0505.shtml
Anonymous:
Apparently the alleged changes have not been as broad or far-reaching as claimed (comment at bottom of link):
--- Quote ---December 08, 2008
I am quite upset with the response from the family school. They said these actions took place years ago and that things have evolved from then. That's not all true, I graduated from FFS December 2004 and still remember the things I went through. They bothered me for a long time and they still do till this day.
Darrillyn Boyce
famgirldee@msn.com
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