Author Topic: help me with something  (Read 11190 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2008, 06:25:05 PM »
If you look at history “all” the conditions treated today use to be “Bogus”, to use the above expression, until more was learned about them.  Depression was called “The Blues” and you just needed to get past it.  Now it is treatable and globally recognized.  Just because RAD isn’t recognized as a disorder, by all, doesn’t mean we just sit around and allow the kids to suffer.  Not sure I agree that these programs are the best place for a child with RAD but the problem needs to be addressed.

In the 1800’s doctors who advocated handwashing as a way to prevent the spread of diseases in hospitals were shunned and some were placed in mental hospitals because of their views and persistence.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2008, 08:02:24 PM »
http://www.upalumni.org/medschool/appen ... ix-43.html

THIS is the kind of "disorder" RAD is. Right up there with ODD.
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Offline psy

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2008, 09:03:07 PM »
Quote from: "thewho...."
In the 1800’s doctors who advocated handwashing as a way to prevent the spread of diseases in hospitals were shunned and some were placed in mental hospitals because of their views and persistence.
And for quite some time, bloodletting was thought to be the perfect treatment for just about everything, so it cuts both ways.  There are also lots of "disorders", such as homosexuality that were once in the DSM that aren't anymore... so so much for that, too.  Let's cut the analogies and stick to the discussion of RAD, and RAD alone.  Nothing else is really relevant.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2008, 10:31:47 PM »
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Offline TheWho

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2008, 11:16:42 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Previous posters are correct: "RAD" is a 100% BOGUS dx.  Facilities claiming to treat RAD are by extension bogus.

This from an actual licensed clinical social worker, if my memory is correct.

RAD isn’t just something the programs made up.  Attachment issues and treatment are discussed by the American Psychological Association and American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children.  The struggle many of the professionals have is not just with the diagnoses but more with how to treat and intervene.  I think Dysfunction Junction is pulling your leg about being a professional in this area.  The APA has real concern in this area and have been for awhile and have been working in trying to agree on an effective way to treat these children.  But the presence of RAD as a disorder is far from Bogus in the eyes of the professionals.  I am surprised that someone claiming to have studied in this area would make that type of comment.

@psy, I agree it cuts both ways which is even more reason not to discard this as just Bogus dx.  The jury is still out on this, but we need to recognize that the kids/family still needs help.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2008, 11:52:31 PM »
fad diagnoses

ALL the foster kids around here get slapped with the RAD dx. It's become the ADHD for foster and adopted kids and a catch all dx. i don't buy into the attachment theory stuff at all anymore. the most common causes for termination of parental rights are substance abuse and mental illness. we're dealing with kids who've spent their 9 mns. in-utero having their brains bathed in Johnnie Walker Black and Crystal Rock - add to that a genetic predisposition for stuff like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and you REALLY think we cure 'em by teaching them to ATTACH TO THEIR MOTHERS. It's all a scam that was started by a sadistic child abuser named Nancy Thomas.

http://nospank.net/act2.htm

http://poundpuplegacy.org/files/APSAC%2 ... herapy.pdf
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2008, 10:13:27 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"


Quote

http://psychobulletin.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssion.html

Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.

I was speaking to TBS, but, yes I agree with you boot camps (and the like) will benefit the most, in my opinion, from any and all mandatory regulations that are defined as a result of the GAO investigations.


And that quote above includes TBS and "emotional growth schools".  Like Aspen.  And WWASPS.  And Straight.  And AARC.  And HLA.  etc. etc. etc. etc.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2008, 12:08:29 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Previous posters are correct: "RAD" is a 100% BOGUS dx.  Facilities claiming to treat RAD are by extension bogus.

This from an actual licensed clinical social worker, if my memory is correct.

RAD isn’t just something the programs made up.  Attachment issues and treatment are discussed by the American Psychological Association and American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children.  The struggle many of the professionals have is not just with the diagnoses but more with how to treat and intervene.  I think Dysfunction Junction is pulling your leg about being a professional in this area.  The APA has real concern in this area and have been for awhile and have been working in trying to agree on an effective way to treat these children.  But the presence of RAD as a disorder is far from Bogus in the eyes of the professionals.  I am surprised that someone claiming to have studied in this area would make that type of comment.

@psy, I agree it cuts both ways which is even more reason not to discard this as just Bogus dx.  The jury is still out on this, but we need to recognize that the kids/family still needs help.



...

No, I'm not shining anyone on about RAD.  While Reactive Attachment Disorder is in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that defines and bestows legitimacy upon mental disorders, there is no officially recognized and quantified entity called "attachment therapy."  Any person or organization offering "attachment therapy" is engaged in pure quackery.

RAD currently is included in the DSM-IV, but has been discredited as a dx over the past several years.  

Here's how it works:  A bunch of doctors, psychologists or psychiatrists see what amounts to a "syndrome" and realize that there is money to be made by creating a diagnostic label for it and begin to lobby to have it included in the DSM so they can begin to "treat" it and get insurance money for doing so.  Eventually, when the research body is more complete, longitudinal studies and outcome studies have been completed the community of MH professionals circle back and review the issue and make needed changes to the dx criteria or remove the "disorder" from the DSM.  

A prime example of this is MPD or "Multiple Personaiity Disorder."  There is no such thing - never has been - but yet it ended up in the DSM for several years and iterations and was widely diagnosed and treated based on the DSM criteria.  Now it has been purged from the DSM and the professional lexicon.  

The same will happen with RAD in due course.  As with any other "fashion in science" (Read Irwin Sperber's (my mentor in Social Sciences) book Fashions in Science to understand how "trendy" medical, psychological and social sciences are and how practitioners get "on board" based on the fad rather than the science.  

Here's a good link to review how children are abused in the name of "attachment therapy" or treatment of RAD, especially by scurrilous practitioners of coercive "therapy" (i.e. every TBS, EG, Wilderness, Bootcamp):

http://specialchildren.about.com/gi/dyn ... /apsac.htm

Excerpts regarding EG/TBS type "programs":

Quote
"a. Treatment techniques or attachment parenting techniques involving physical coercion, psychologically or physically enforced holding, physical restraint, physical domination, provoked catharsis, ventilation of rage, age regression, humiliation, withholding or forcing food or water intake, prolonged social isolation, or assuming exaggerated levels of control and domination over a child are contraindicated because of risk of harm and absence of proven benefit and should not be used.

b. Prognostications that certain children are destined to become psychopaths or predators should never be made based on early childhood behavior. These beliefs create an atmosphere conducive to overreaction and harsh or abusive treatment. Professionals should speak out against these and similar unfounded conceptualizations of children who are maltreated.

c. Intervention models that portray young children in negative ways, including describing certain groups of young children as pervasively manipulative, cunning, or deceitful, are not conducive to good treatment and may promote abusive practices. In general, child maltreatment professionals should be skeptical of treatments that describe children in pejorative terms or that advocate aggressive techniques for breaking down children’s defenses.

d. Children’s expressions of distress during therapy always should be taken seriously. Some valid psychological treatments may involve transitory and controlled emotional distress. However, deliberately seeking to provoke intense emotional distress or dismissing children’s protests of distress is contraindicated and should not be done.

e. State-of-the-art, goal-directed, evidence-based approaches that fit the main presenting problem should be considered when selecting a first-line treatment. Where no evidence-based option exists or where evidence-based treatment options have been exhausted, alternative treatments with sound theory foundations and broad clinical acceptance are appropriate. Before attempting novel or highly unconventional treatments with untested benefits, the potential for psychological or physical harm should be carefully weighed."

The type of places advocated (advertised, marketed and sold) by The Who or those like him can be accurately described in the clear and pejorative terms above and should be strictly avoided.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2008, 12:09:30 PM »
Edited for wierd double-post after server failed to handle request twice.  DJ
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2008, 12:48:41 PM »
Here is some more interesting information from APSAC (whom The Who cites as a reference above).  It is interesting to note that the practices recommended by APSAC proscribe the type of programs and treatment offered by the facilities The Who advocates (sells, markets) here.  Have a look:

Quote
4. Professionals should embrace high ethical standards concerning advertising treatment services to professional audiences and especially to lay audiences.

a. Claims of exclusive benefit (i.e., that no other treatments will work) should never be made. Claims of relative benefit (e.g., that one treatment works better than others) should only be made if there is adequate controlled trial scientific research to support the claim.


b. Use of patient testimonials in marketing treatment services constitutes a dual relationship. Because of the potential for exploitation, the Task Force believes that patient testimonials should not be used to market treatment services.

c. Unproven checklists or screening tools should not be posted on Web sites or disseminated to lay audiences.
Screening checklists known to have adequate measurement properties and presented with qualifications may be appropriate.

d. Information disseminated to the lay public should be carefully qualified. Advertising should not make claims of likely benefits that cannot be supported by scientific evidence and should fully disclose all known or reasonably foreseeable risks.


This is a fairly stunning juxtaposition of the bonafide scientific community and the duck farmers for whom The Who toils endlessly.  Professional organizations like APSAC repudiate without restriction exactly what The Who is peddling here, right down to the false claims of efficacy and patient testimonials used as evidence of successful outcomes in the absence of one iota of scientific evidence.  Indeed, APSAC calls these practices outright exploitation of children and laypeople (e.g. program parents).

[edited for typos - DJ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2008, 01:01:40 PM »
DJ's back!  Cool, you've been missed.

 :rasta:  ;D
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2008, 01:06:47 PM »
Thanks, DJ. Great posts. Very solid and useful.

Auntie Em
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2008, 01:13:05 PM »
I've been reading and checking in from time to time.  I've been really busy with a new home (of course the wife wants to remodel every room and completely revamp all of the landscaping), so I have not had time to contribute in a meaningful way here.  I have, however, been lobbying old colleagues, professional organizations and my congressman (dumb-ass Christopher Shays who will likely be gone come November) to speak out about institutionalized child abuse as time and energy allow.  

I just had back surgery (see "landscaping" above) three weeks ago and am just now back to the office and getting caught up.  I hope to be able to be more involved on a going-forward basis, but I didn't post for quite some time, as the forum was completely messed up and frustrating.  Looks like it's back on track now.

Thanks for thinking of me!
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Offline TheWho

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2008, 02:38:14 PM »
The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children embarked on a study a couple years back (2006) to look at RAD and Attachment therapy.  The Task Force also included members appointed from the American Psychological Association’s Division on Child, Youth and Family Services.
As I read thru the report I did not note anywhere the use of the word Bogus as Dysfunction Junction suggests or that the APSAC or APA dismisses it as "100% Bogus".  But it seems DJ has back peddled a bit after reading up on the subject.  So I give you some credit points for reading up.  

As I stated before RAD has not been dismissed by the APA.  In fact they are taking the lead in this area and are recommending treatment to avoid and paths to go down.  There are many controversial therapies and my personal opinion is that this is a problem that has to be dealt with as a family and therefore sending the child away should not be an option.  I haven’t read of any repeatable successes with treating children outside the home.

Some points from the study and a link:
It is important to note that not all attachment-related interventions are controversial……..From the traditional attachment theory viewpoint, therapy for maltreated children described as having attachment problems emphasizes providing a stable environment and taking a calm, sensitive, non-intrusive, non-threatening, patient, predictable, and nurturing approach toward children

Recommendations Regarding Diagnosis and Assessment of Attachment Problems.

a. Attachment problems, including but extending beyond RAD, are a real and appropriate concern for professionals working with maltreated children, and should be carefully considered when these children are assessed.


Lets not be too quick to discard problems because of rogue articles or backyard gossip.  When it comes to our children we need to consider every option to help them.  Sometimes we cannot wait a decade for clinical studies to be done.  So I suggest to work closely with your physician and get multiple points of view before making a decision in this area.  Dont accept one person point of view who claims treatment is "bogus".  Treatment is fluid (ever changing) and evolves over time and we all need to keep an open mind and keep our senses about us.



...
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: help me with something
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2008, 03:24:15 PM »
Yeah, you really just don't know what you're talking about, The Who.  

The point is that so-called "RAD" is diagnosed based on a syndrome of symptoms.  Normally this is how diagnoses are formed, but in the case of "RAD" the problem is that the "syndrome" is made up of other readily treatable, known and quantifiable psychological disorders.  Each case of diagnosed "RAD" is merely an amalgam of individually treatable psychologial maladaptions to psychosocial stressors (like emotional, physical or sexual abuse or neglect).  The entire idea the "RAD" is a unique, consistently identifiable and diagnosable set of common symptoms is, in and of itself, a farce.

This fact, coupled with the indesputable truth that there is no valid "attachment therapy" (in point of fact, the practitioners of "AT" routinely psychologically damage patients and often actually murder them during "treatment" - a point easily verified by simple research).

I can understand your ignorance in this matter as your education and experience in this area is exactly ziltch.

Here's what Pat Crossman, an LCSW researcher of the pseudoscience of "attachment Therapy" has to say about it:

Quote
Attachment Therapy

The last decade has seen a sharp rise in the number of cases of gross child abuse, some resulting in death, by or under the direction of "psychotherapists"--many unlicensed or delicensed, who practice a form of pseudotherapy called Attachment Therapy (AT).

AT is a growing, multi-faceted and as yet underground movement for the treatment of children who pose disciplinary problems to their parents or caregivers, in many cases adoptees or foster children. These children are diagnosed as suffering from Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), a failure to attach with the current caregiver due to early trauma.

The only cure (according to AT) is to "reparent" the child, thereby supposedly obtaining the desired attachment and total obedience of the child. Reparenting methods include eye contact on command, physical restraint, the infliction of pain and terror, and the induction of regression.

AT burst on the public scene in 2000 with the news of the death of a ten-year-old girl, Candace Newmaker. Candace was suffocated during a brutal, 70-minute videotaped rebirthing psychodrama in Colorado that was conducted to make the girl more satisfactory to her adoptive mother.


The places The Who represents would obviously be interested in AT, as it requires only unlicensed or delicensed quacks to perform.  Conveniently, these are the very folks who staff the vast majority of the TBS/EG/Wilderness programs he routinely pimps on this site.

The overarching idea here is that RAD is a spurious dx, AT is a spurious and dangerous endeavor that often results in maimed and dead babies and children.  Take it for what it's worth, but you can bet your ass none of my kin will ever be subjected to this deadly form of quackery.

Another gem from Crossman that adequately sums up the TBS/EG/Wilderness industry and it's proponents like The Who:
Quote
Theories of medical and psychiatric management based on ignorance or pseudoscience can be dangerous, even in the hands of good people. It is said that George Washington was bled to death by four devoted and honest physicians. Bloodletting and purging were acceptable methods of curing diseases at that time. Those who survived were appreciative and would recommend it to their friends. We don't do this any more, because we now understand the true function of blood. Neither do we condone exorcisms to flush out evil spirits. This is because we now know better. Ignorance is forgivable. But sometimes, in certain personalities and at certain times, ignorance is accompanied by a terrible arrogance, even charisma, that condones and justifies cruelty as a method for achieving the desired results--which in all such cases is control.

Ignorance + Arrogance + Desire for Control = Maimed and Dead Children.

Sound familiar to anyone?
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