Author Topic: Coldwater the Movie  (Read 20936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2003, 12:05:00 PM »
Carey, why don't YOU ask the attorneys. I've met with them in person, so until you get the facts, YOU need to shut up. They are very much behind the attention it will give to the case.

You also keep omitting the fact that the producers of the "fictional" Coldwater, are ALSO producing a REAL LIFE documentary, telling not only Ryan's story but many many others. Totally NON-fiction, that will be included with the film's DVD release. Plus, the fact that the film, et al is being dedicated to all of the kids that have died, with a portion of profits going to legitimate charities, helping children and NOT putting them in camps.

I guess you just didn't want to mention that, so as to make your case against a fictional film seem more believable. Could it be you're upset cuz your boys aren't getting the spotlight anymore? Maybe if you'd played nice, they might've been a part of it too. (although I doubt you'd ever admit to that) It's okay, I know you'll be buying a ticket to the film when it's released, cuz the curiosity will be driving you crazy! (again, something you'll never admit to, but I'd love to see you incognito going to a screening!)

I may be "anonymous," but you know who this is. I just couldn't sit here any longer and let you spout off about things you know nothing about, and cleverly omit things that are relevant.

And I will close with this - Carey, lighten up! Enough kids have suffered and the marjority of us here are trying to do something good - stop spewing such negativity, you're really starting to sound pathetic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lynn

  • Posts: 17
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2003, 12:45:00 PM »
Carey,
I have been reading your posts over the last few days with growing amazement.  I have seen you attack, and viciously I might add, not only anyone with an opinion that differs from you-- but seemingly anyone who attempts to express ANY opinion at all.
You write off a careful, well-reasoned, thoughtful observation by saying the writer sounds "like a lawyer".  This is not a bad thing when the subject under discussion is a legal issue.  And the justification for your venom directed at those who are open enough to hope for a net gain in the crusade against BM facilities as a result of a "fictional" movie dealing with the subject?  It would hurt courtroom credibility!!?  Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.  (Actually, I don't think you have made a case for it EITHER way...)
I feel sorry for you Carey.  Everything must be either black or white-nothing in between- in that tight little insulated world in which you live.
But it offends me when you attack people such as Karen and others.  It seems to me that she has made heroic effort to remove self-interest from her anti-WWASP efforts.
Lighten up with the "Ohmigod!!".
And by the way, what DID Tim Weiner have to say? My guess is you didn't reveal that because it didn't feed into your paranoid little fantasy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2003, 01:27:00 PM »
Carey, how is it okay to beat kids? It's not okay! As a loving parent and mother of 2, I find it sick with what you have to say. Go express your support of abuse somewhere else.

Not even your own message board likes you, doesnt that tell you something...

It would make one wondor if you didn't support Coldwater, there bringing the subject out and look at what your doing.

Maybe you should think about a different career, because your writing isnt getting you anywhere and your only perfection is supporting abuse.


As if you realy make any sense?

Your not even able to live up to yout lies, you never answer the questions because you have none.

You sound like your maybe 9 years old, we all can see how many posts you have made, and we can also see its you who should join the circus.

 Get a life clown
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2003, 01:50:00 PM »
As evident by her own admission, Karen Z has a serious credibility problem.  She also appears to be indifferent to the consequences of promoting a false sense of security about the safety and efficacy of the programs and schools listed on her website.  

Second, there is a big difference between an explanation and an excuse.  So far, Karen Z. has not come to the table with anything but one lame excuse after another.  

 ::puke::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2003, 02:38:00 PM »
WOW, all of Sue's puppets are out in full force.

You guys, I am sorry that I am upsetting you so very much. I know why.  Because you know that a FICTIONAL movie is just that, fiction.  And yes, the producers can gather a lot of people together and have them make statements, which will help him to sell his movie, but then these people will be endorcing the fiction he has created.  Oh well, another person, just like Sue, who will profit off of the pain of others.

Yes Sue, I know that was from you.  I know because you are the one who has talked to the attorneys.  I also know that you have upset them.  I have a copy of the letter that went out.

I don't need others, especially those associated with Sue Scheff, to take on my views and opinions to make me feel they are justified and/or right.  I know they are right, just like I knew Dundee was wrong.

Oh by the way, Anon said "Carey, how is it okay to beat kids? It's not okay! As a loving parent and mother of 2, I find it sick with what you have to say. Go express your support of abuse somewhere else. "

Can you show me where I said it was ok to beat kids?  I see why you believe in FICTION you create it, make it up, then you believe it.

Show me where in one post I have condoned abuse.  You think because I don't support your beleif in a fictional film...it means I support abuse?  Come on, get a grip.
 
No wonder you believe and buy into this FICTIONAL film, you are making things up yourself.

Not believing in the film to you Anon, means I believe in abuse according to your statement.  How ignorant can you be?

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-07-24 11:39 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-07-24 11:47 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-07-24 11:49 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-07-24 11:57 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2003, 02:53:00 PM »
If you want any of us to take you seriously, learn to spell. Proper grammar might help too. (pupits, is spelled "puppets" - that's a freebe on me!) And you say you're a writer, HA!? At least you're not a school teacher.

And NO Carey, that wasn't Sue!

By the WAY, a documentary is a separate production all together. Which means, Coldwater will be a "movie" and the "documentary" will be something else. Not shown with the movie. It'll have testimony from those involved in the subject matter. It is non-fiction and will be produced with the utmost of integrity. HOW MANY TIMES MUST YOU BE TOLD THIS?

I just truly wonder why you think a fictional film is such a bad thing? The filmmakers are certainly not in support of the camps, they are against them and hope that after the film's release these camps will be closed. WHY CAN'T YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL?

If after Coldwater's release, many camps were closed because of the added media attention, would you still say it's a bad thing? Answer that for me, will you?

Quote
On 2003-07-24 11:38:00, Carey wrote:

"WOW, all of Sue's pupits are out in full force.



You guys, I am sorry that I am upsetting you so very much. I know why.  Because you know that a FICTIONAL movie is just that, fiction.  And yes, the producers can gather a lot of people together and have them make statements, which will help him to sell his movie, but then these people will be endorcing the fiction he has created.  Then the movie could be based on facts not fiction. Oh well, another person, just like Sue, who will profit off of the pain of others.



Yes Sue, I know that was from you.  I know because you are the one who has talked to the attorneys.  I also know that you have upset them.  I have a copy of the letter that went out.



I don't need others, especially those associated with Sue Scheff, to take on my views and opinions to make me feel they are justified and/or right.  I know they are right, just like I knew Dundee was wrong.





[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-07-24 11:39 ]"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2003, 03:10:00 PM »
"Hey, my life is writing, your's anon must be reading. I guess I am someone  who takes action while you are someone who sits on the wayside and merely complains about the actions that others take."

This was my quote on writing. I did not say I was a writer.  It was in response to anon who made a comment about me "getting a life " and my "104 posts" on this site.  Me the writer / Anon the reader.  Do you get it now?  I guess this person, Anaon, was feeling threatened by my opinion.

"If after Coldwater's release, many camps were closed because of the added media attention, would you still say it's a bad thing? Answer that for me, will you?

So you are saying you would give Coldwater the credit for the shutting down of these programs?  I wouldn't.  They are taking a ride on the same money train as Sue, Dundee and all others who are associated with this industy have.  If programs get shut down it will be due to legal proceedings, not a fictional movie.  All the movie will due is make it harder for those making the decision to determine fact from fiction. Those in the judicial system will be a little more weary about what they are being told in court by those who endorse this piece of fiction.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline anon

  • Posts: 267
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2003, 03:43:00 PM »
My anon 'friends'
I don't understand how you can say I have a credibility problem, when I am telling the truth.
Do you know what credibility  means?

Someone had a question about the Mexican house ALA operates. I can promote it because I personally know the people involved, and how they came to open the house in Mexico.
Its a beautiful place, in a quite resort town on a huge and beautiful lake.  
The kids actually do get to go out and socialize in the town. They actually do get to ride horses, and visit the beaches and go to movies. They actually do take part in public service work. Lately, its been planting trees.
ALA is not your typical program. Its operated family style - no restriction on phone use, or packages and letters. Family is welcome at any time - and I do mean welcome.
That is how/why I can gladly 'promote' them.

Carey, you write:

//Oh, sounds like this is really a site that people should turn to, NOT!!!!!//
Then by all means stay away from it. Quite logging onto the forum, and posting to this one and that one - Do you know Karen is doing this, or has posted that. . .  If you don?t approve - stay away.
//You talk about a fish flopping around, you go from claiming to know nothing about the programs,//
That wasn?t me made the fish comment.
//You say it yourself, you are promoting something you know nothing about!//
I don?t promote what I don?t know about.  I think I was clear on this point. I am very upfront with people about the dangers and that they need to use great caution. I'm very clear I can't personally speak about any program, other than WWASP, and ALA.

To all:
The STH site is not Mine. I don?t pay for it, or make money working with it. I don?t decide what is on the site, except for what I post on the Forum.  I am pleased to be part of it - as I know the people involved, and I respect and trust them.   Nothing I say on Fornits or elsewhere is in any way effected by the fact I watch over the STH forum.  So, I don?t see how it effects the credibility of my statements.
I enjoy talking with people, I am a good listener, I do have quit a lot of personal experience getting help for troubled kids (far more that you would imagine) and I can often give some pretty sound advice as a result.  Most of my experience has to do with families getting the services they need from hospitals, insurance companies, schools and states. This is often very helpful to parents who can?t even consider the kind of private paid programs we talk about here. With most of the people I spend time with, there is no money to be made for anybody.  The programs I most often recommend? YMCA camps, and Outward bound.
I expect with the passing of time, the site will grow, and be more informative and list more options, and some will like it, and some won?t.

I am interested in input. I can make suggestions.
Once again, I ask folks to remember - I didn?t bring this up - and so please don?t try to accuse me of promoting ?my? web site.

Back to Cary for a moment:  
You seem to think Craig a pirate for charging tuition.  Its how he makes his living Carey.  He dose this at great personal sacrifice, even if ALA does have tuition. He drives those boys all over the country - no exaggeration - to attend teen conferences and events - at no additional charge. Its just part of the program. He takes the kids snow boarding, skate boarding, camping, hiking threw some of the most beautiful places in the world - all at no additional cost.  So please don?t be harping at me about how hes all about money. I happen to be someone who knows better. Furthermore, he is good at what he dose. He has a gift for working with teenage boys with addiction problems.

Carey - why are you so suspicious and paranoid of everybody?s motives?  As a general rule, what one accuses others of, is what they themselves are guilty of.  When you spend all this time and energy trying to point out all the flaws and inadequacies of others - the plots and schemes you believe them all planning - it makes me wonder whats in your own heart.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2003, 04:18:00 PM »
"Oh, sounds like this is really a site that people should turn to, NOT!!!"

Karen, I was refering to your site, not the Fornets site.   :wstupid:

"Carey - why are you so suspicious and paranoid of everybody?s motives? As a general rule, what one accuses others of, is what they themselves are guilty of. When you spend all this time and energy trying to point out all the flaws and inadequacies of others - the plots and schemes you believe them all planning - it makes me wonder whats in your own heart."

I don't want you to have to wonder, Karen.  I will tell you what is in my heart.  THE TRUTH.   Those of us who are fighting this fight for the children from truely a "pure" perspective will come out alright.  Those of us who have not, will only have themselves to blame.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2003, 06:06:00 PM »
To Karen Z:

At the very least, don't you think you should disclose on the website you "manage" that the website is registered to the same person who owns Abundant Life Academy, one of the 4 programs recommended on this website?  

As for whether you are paid or not paid for your services, it's clear you are in the business of referring prospective clients to someone who stands to profit from your recommendations.  

 :smokin:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2003, 06:36:00 PM »
I don't see what the BIG DEAL is in someone getting paid for doing what they love.  Karen Z feels strongly about her involvement in this - give her a break!  Carey feels strongly about wanting to shut down WWASP programs.  Spots, even with her holier than thou persona, is dong what she thinks is right. If it is coming from a passion, let it go. In their view, they are doing what they feel is right for themselves.  

If this forum was all about agreeing with each other, how boring it would be. Some people jump on the negative press bandwagon and say "hey look, "I'm right." Other's, like me, keep an open mind and go with what feels right.

No program is 100% perfect. No person is 100% perfect - I know I'm not and like someone said, if you find those negatives, then it is something within yourself that you need to take a look at.  No one is wrong here.  No one is right either.  These are opinions expressed. PERIOD.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2003, 07:04:00 PM »
What can you say about someone who thinks of themselves as a professional parent?  Not much -- which is why perhaps Karen Z. might want to  think about posting on her own discussion board for a change.  

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2003, 07:57:00 PM »
Anon wrote:
I don't see what the BIG DEAL is in someone getting paid for doing what they love. Karen Z feels strongly about her involvement in this - give her a break!

The point the other Anon was making is that it is widely held among opponents of the Industry that one who refers to programs should act independently. Meaning they aren't paid by the program or in this case, their website is not paid for by a program. I don't know how much this "really" matters in the end, OR how realistic it is to think that there is such a thing as an unbiased referral. But oh well, it's considered unethical.

I didn't check the validity of this but if it's accurate, I would have to agree that some disclaimer would be appropriate. If Karen is independent, wouldn't it make sense that the site would be registered to her, or rather the folks she works for?

It's one thing to share your experience with other parents, it's another to imply you make independent referals to better programs (those with better "marketing" schemes). Why doesn't ALA do it's own advertising? Why do they need Karen (or the others involved with the site)? Wouldn't it be enough for ALA to provide her testimonial at their site, rather than register (pay for?) a site where she/they claim to provide independent referals?  And why would ALA pay for a site where other programs are listed? Do these programs have anything in common, other than the obvious of course? Many questions  :???:

I'm sure there will be some logical explanation, we'll have to see how Karen weighs in on this and how the situation is handled.
Deborah


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-07-26 16:59 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2003, 09:32:00 PM »
Deborah - you wrote: "But oh well, it's considered unethical."  Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on who's reading it.

What I consider unethical is claiming one program is safer or better than another.  That is biased. Sue Scheff is completely in this category - unethical and biased.  She too is a professional mom, no credentials other than her own experience, which is based on being told she could no longer refer parents to WWASP programs, so she is now a dirt digger to make herself look credible by referring parents to programs that will pay her a fee.

All provide a necessary service to parents, hopefully not to confuse them any further, but to provide options based on what they need.  I don't even think educational consultants fit what parents need, especially the amount they charge the parents.  I would much prefer to speak to a parent, teen, family, that has been where I am and to share their story.  I, as an intelligent person, can make a decision based on if it feels right for my family.

I get that it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

Lighten up!  Help is what's needed, not a bunch of character attacks - does nothing for me but make me feel "icky."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Coldwater the Movie
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2003, 10:16:00 PM »
Damned if you do, damned if you don't?
If someone in the business of refering criticizes another for unethical marketing practices, shouldn't they hold themselves to a higher standard than the one they criticize? Given the discussion, there is some question re: ALA and Karen's integrity and the nature of their relationship. Personally, I'm waiting to hear Karen's response. Everyone does what they do because in their heart of hearts (in some cases, their twisted minds) they think it's right... even Hitler.

>>Lighten up! Help is what's needed, not a bunch of character attacks - does nothing for me but make me feel "icky."

Help is what's needed?
Character attacks?
Well pardon me, but your "icky" feelings are for you to deal with.... it's not my responsibility to cater to your distresses and misinterpretations. No one on this board is responsible for censoring themselves so you don't feel icky. I know it may be hard for you to discern this, but there is a difference between attacking one's character and questioning it. And ocassionally, an "attack" of one's character can be necessary and useful.
My persepective of course,
Deborah
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700