Is your school or organization a Cult?

[TheWho]

Posted by LS in the Cedu forum

http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/01/28/ ... on-a-cult/ (links active at my blog).

Getting ready to film interviews with ex-Cedu/RMA in LA and Bay Area in March. Post a comment if you'll be in town and want to pop up in a documentary.

Here's a neat little tool - What is the style of education you're experiencing: Open, Advertising, Indoctrination, Propaganda, Thought Reform?

In doing research on Cults in America, and specifically those that re-form themselves as schools for troubled teens, I found this handy chart (see below), taken from Dr. Margaret Singer’s book, Cults in Our Midst (at Factnet.org ) outlining some of the differences between education and thought reform (also called “brain-washing”), and some of the stops along the way – advertising, indoctrination and propaganda.

Which of these processes best describe your school days? Your grade school? High school? College?

Your work environment? A corporate work environment?

Education involves:

    * Many bodies of knowledge, based on scientific findings in various fields.

    * Two way pupil-teacher exchange encouraged.

    * Change occurs as science advances; as students and other scholars offer criticisms; as students and citizens evaluate programs.

    * Uses teacher-pupil structure; logical thinking encouraged.

    * Instruction is time-limited: consensual.

    * Is not deceptive.

    * Respects differences.


Propaganda Requires:

    * Takes authoritarian stance to persuade masses.

    * Learner support and engrossment expected.

    * Can be deceptive, often exaggerated.

    * Targets large political masses to make them believe a specific view or circumstance is good.

    * Wants to lessen opposition.

    * Overt persuasion sometimes unethical.

Thought Reform Demands:

    * Body of knowledge centers on changing people without their knowledge.

    * No exchange occurs, communication is one-sided. [Getting "blown away," anyone?]

    * Change occurs rarely; organization remains fairly rigid; change occurs primarily to improve thought-reform effectiveness.

    * Takes authoritarian and hierarchical stance; No full awareness on part of learner.

    * Group attempts to retain people forever.

    * Is deceptive.

    * Individualized target; hidden agenda (you will be changed one step at a time to become deployable to serve leaders).

    * No respect for differences.

    * Uses Improper and unethical techniques.

Anybody stuck in the zone? Take the quiz!


More at  the blog:
http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/01/28/ ... on-a-cult/

[TheWho]

The word “Cult” has been way over used here on fornits in my opinion.  Many of the TBS’s that I am aware of do not fall within the category of Cult although it seems many of the schools which grew out of the 1970’ and 80’s take on many of the cult attributes.  It appears that the program models are moving away from this type of reform over time which is a positive sign.


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[Anonymous]

The word “Cult” has been way over used here on fornits in my opinion.  Many of the TBS’s that I am aware of do not fall within the category of Cult although it seems many of the schools which grew out of the 1970’ and 80’s take on many of the cult attributes.  It appears that the program models are moving away from this type of reform over time which is a positive sign.

^^^^^^^ LIES  ^^^^^^^^

[Anonymous]

Fuck You Who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are nothing more than a corporate mouth piece that spreads lies and propaganda. You are about the lowest human being on the face of the planet, maybe just shy of being a true ED-Con.

Tell us, What is your yearly salary from the Industry? You are the type of person who would do anything for a dollar. You even sold your own daughter out so you could use her as nothing more than a sales pitch.

It takes someone with no respect to come on a forum where he is not wanted, respected, or even like for that matter. Some people are really amazing for tolerating you. I am really glad the ignore feature is in place.

You know something, I'll bet you're going to burn in HELL for all the lies, manipulation, and cohercion that you have done. There is no way you would ever walk in the pearly gates.

To anyone new here on this forum, it would be very wise to use the ignore feature on the forum when it comes to this person. And to parents who are coming to this site, please for God's sake "Don't let this man get in and lie, con, and manipulate you. Read the survivors postings and you will see that when it comes to this person, "IT"S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$$$ MONEY $$$$$$$$

[TheWho]

You are nothing more than a corporate mouth piece that spreads lies and propaganda. You are about the lowest human being on the face of the planet, maybe just shy of being a true ED-Con.

Just shy of being a true ed con… that’s cute... so all ed-cons are evil also.  You sure like to segment large portions of society to hate dont you?

Tell us, What is your yearly salary from the Industry?

Probably less than you if you make more than $1 from your movie.

You are the type of person who would do anything for a dollar. You even sold your own daughter out so you could use her as nothing more than a sales pitch.

Sales pitch?  so now parents are to be considered salesman if they say anything positive about thier kids who graduated from a TBS or wilderness... goes against the group think here?

It takes someone with no respect to come on a forum where he is not wanted, respected, or even like for that matter. Some people are really amazing for tolerating you. I am really glad the ignore feature is in place.

Actually it takes someone with commitment and patience to stand up to people who are consistently misleading parents to the point where anyone who comes on here with a positive story from a wilderness experience or TBS is heckled to the point of leaving.  While in the same breath you allow misleading stories to be posted without a comment as long as they have a negative spin to them.
I am the only one here on fornits who is willing to take a hard look at what the Troubled Teen industry is doing, good and bad.  I carry no anger or hatred, as many of you do, which clouds your judgment and leads you to focus on revenge versus putting your energy to a more positive use like helping out existing families and kids.

I am looked down upon here because I go against the “group think” , “all schools are evil mentality" and buck the negative direction the site is going.  Trying to paint me as an industry shill just makes it easier to sell your hatred towards me, but in reality I am just a parent who had a child attend and benefit from this industry and want to repay my debt by helping other parents work through the maze of disinformation that is so rampant here.

It is interesting that you made this post on this thread because as time goes on fornits is taking on more and more of the attributes that define a “cult”… years ago fornits better tolerated healthy debate and encouraged new thoughts but it seems that is part of the past…….the industry is changing, folks, for the better and has been for years yet you are all blind to it and most you are standing still.

You know something, I'll bet you're going to burn in HELL for all the lies, manipulation, and cohercion that you have done. There is no way you would ever walk in the pearly gates.

If you plan on walking thru yourself, you should put aside your hatred, take the gloves off and pitch in to help these kids (who are going thru a rough time) get the proper care they need.



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[TheWho?]

Fuck You Who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"IT"S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$$$ MONEY $$$$$$$$

FUCK ME WHILE YOU'RE AT IT

[DieYuppieSkum]

ya know who, you would be cute if you learned to SHUT YOUR STINKIN PIE HOLE YA BLOODY CUNT.



This message was a public service announcement from the "people who want to see who shut the hell up or burn in hell or whichever comes first" Foundation.

[SettleForNothingLess]

ya know who, you would be cute if you learned to SHUT YOUR STINKIN PIE HOLE YA BLOODY CUNT.



This message was a public service announcement from the "people who want to see who shut the hell up or burn in hell or whichever comes first" Foundation.

HaHaHa DYS

...

lol
it aint hard to write like our nemesis Wholigan haha

[Energizer Bunny]

ya know who, you would be cute if you learned to SHUT YOUR STINKIN PIE HOLE YA BLOODY CUNT.



This message was a public service announcement from the "people who want to see who shut the hell up or burn in hell or whichever comes first" Foundation.

HaHaHa DYS

...

lol
it aint hard to write like our nemesis Wholigan haha

My icon! mine mine mine mine mine!!! lol

[Anonymous]

To mister Who,
Why do you stay here when everyone treats you so poorly?  I have been reading and following your writings and you have a lot of good things to say and seem to keep a sense of humor about you.  How do you know which ones are telling the truth? I could not stay and read in this place for too long with all the foul language and hatred thrown about at each other but I wanted to say I admire your persistence and thank you for standing up for some of us parents and our kids.  You don’t let your children read this do you?  I don’t let my kids see this stuff.  My kids are growing up fine but my sister is having a truly hard time with her son, would you have time to answer a couple of questions?  She lives in the state of Georgia.

Alyssa

[Froderik]

I doubt the above post is for real; don't feed the trolls.

[TheWho?]

To mister Who,
Why do you stay here when everyone treats you so poorly?  I have been reading and following your writings and you have a lot of good things to say and seem to keep a sense of humor about you.  How do you know which ones are telling the truth? I could not stay and read in this place for too long with all the foul language and hatred thrown about at each other but I wanted to say I admire your persistence and thank you for standing up for some of us parents and our kids.  You don’t let your children read this do you?  I don’t let my kids see this stuff.  My kids are growing up fine but my sister is having a truly hard time with her son, would you have time to answer a couple of questions?  She lives in the state of Georgia.

Alyssa

To Ms Alyssa,
Who are you talking to? TheWho or TheWho?? 

[TheWho]

To mister Who,
Why do you stay here when everyone treats you so poorly?  I have been reading and following your writings and you have a lot of good things to say and seem to keep a sense of humor about you.  How do you know which ones are telling the truth? I could not stay and read in this place for too long with all the foul language and hatred thrown about at each other but I wanted to say I admire your persistence and thank you for standing up for some of us parents and our kids.  You don’t let your children read this do you?  I don’t let my kids see this stuff.  My kids are growing up fine but my sister is having a truly hard time with her son, would you have time to answer a couple of questions?  She lives in the state of Georgia.

Alyssa

Hi Alyssa,  I tell you it is a tough crowd around here.. as far as why I stay around it is because I have received very positive feedback from some readers like yourself and also because there is a lot of misinformation being fed to parents who come across fornits to read.  As far as who to believe, I really cannot tell you specifically… there are posters who have never been associated with a program like Nihlantic, Dishdutyfugitive and others who claim to have attended but I don’t believe they have.    Others admit they have no association with the industry but post anyway.  Many are here to just disrupt and dump a ton of anger here,  for various reasons, although there are many who are well meaning and try to give sound advice based on their experiences.  So as you have seen it is difficult to decipher which information is accurate and intended to help the families.

I agree with you and I don’t encourage kids (mine or others) to read this site, although I have had some parents come on to read specific discussions or threads of interest.  I think it is a good outlet for those who have attended a not so healthy program and want to connect with other people who have had similar experiences … anyway… I am rambling I know… my email is at the bottom of my posts.  You can click on it or write it down and give it to your sister and email me from anywhere you like.
I hope these answered your questions……

Thanks, Alyssa, for the vote of support and I look forward to hearing from you.



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[TheWho?]

Will the real TheWho please stand up!

[Baby Cakes]

Alyssa = TheWho? What's on second?

Alyssa, if you are indeed a real person and not another one of whooser's personalities, forgive me, and please don't rely soley on whoosie's interpretation of anything. Just pay attention, and consider all angles. And read ALL his posts, weird guy. There's a reason there's so much animosity directed at him. And remember that there are quite a lot of us who've been through these programs and feel like they did more harm than good. I took some good with me, HOWEVER, it was very culty, and it changed the way my mind works. I'm sure others will agree with me. We were children, but still citizens of this country, and should have had a say. Period.

On the other hand, I laugh just thinking about whooter switching computers to write himself a love letter.