"Finishing schools" for 18-24 year olds

[Anonymous]

the problem is who is to decide what is henious? if you let the goverment decide, you never know what they will brand as henious. to some, murder and child rape are henious. to others, they might want to include child abuse. others (keep in mind, in this country, this is alot of people), may decide that homosexuals shouldnt be allowed to have kids, or that people with a history of drug abuse cant have kids.

we cant have that, because once a precedent has been set, there are not limits to where it can go. one day it's sterilizing murderers, then before you know it two years later people with low I.Qs, druggies, homos, and overly promiscus people will be gettting sterilized.



what WOULD be legitimate, would be this:
if one wishes to have a baby, they must get a license. This is FREE, but the parents must attend classes, pass tests, and have inspections of their households. think of the movie "license to wed". this would also involve community service involving kids (e.g "big brothers" thing, or spending time with a much younger relative could also count), along with backround checks.  
If one wishes to Opt out of getting a license, or simply cant pass the test, they may still have kids. exept they would be heavily taxed for every child. the kid would also be inelligible to attend public school, and inelligible for any form of insurance. If one is unable to take care of a child at that point, after taxes and everything, the kid is taken away, and the parents jailed for tax evasion.

this would ensure that if one has kids, they better be able to take care of them. If they seem to think they can, but are really just sheep and fuck their kids up, and cant take care of them, the kids get help and the parents are punished.

I don't think there is a slippery slope argument here. The perpetration of random acts of violence against kids can easily be distinguished from the other activities you mention, such as homosexuality and smoking pot. Hard drugs is more complicated, as their fetus will become addicted. But people convicted of murdering, raping, and even molesting kids, theior own or others', should not be allowed to have kids. These are universal no-nos.    

Actually, I find your idea of licensing and controlling all parents more worrying than the loss of childbearing rights for some parents. First, it seems very Big Brotherish and gives the government unprecedented powers to interfere in our private matters. Second, the idea of forbidding schooling and insurance for kids may have no effect at all on the parents if they're rich or too far gone but will almost surely be punishing to the kids.

[AuntieEm2]

if one wishes to have a baby, they must get a license. This is FREE, but the parents must attend classes, pass tests, and have inspections of their households. think of the movie "license to wed". this would also involve community service involving kids (e.g "big brothers" thing, or spending time with a much younger relative could also count), along with backround checks.

If one wishes to Opt out of getting a license, or simply cant pass the test, they may still have kids. exept they would be heavily taxed for every child. the kid would also be inelligible to attend public school, and inelligible for any form of insurance.

This concept has merit and is well-intentioned but lacks practical application, I'm afraid.

Would this licensing happen before getting dressed for prom, during the drunken frat party, in the back seat of the Chev, or after the woman is already pregnant? Would pregnant women be less likely to seek prenatal care because they don't want to take classes? Would our society suddenly hold men equally responsible for parenting? And children of irresponsible parents would suffer additional neglect and a lesser education?  

The impulse to improve parenting and hold parents accountable is wonderful, but I don't think this gets you there...
 
Auntie Em

[Ursus]

have you ever heard of the john dewey school? It sounds alot like hyde. All the students "vote" on wether to accept you......weird

I believe there is a John Dewey High School in Brooklyn (NY), considered to be a relatively progressive public high school, but you are probably thinking of John Dewey Academy in Massachusetts:  
http://www.jda.org/

Snippet found re. when John Dewey Academy was pushing to get accredited back in 1993... check out who was the chairman of the accreditation committee:

===============================================

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews02.html
Malcolm W. Gauld, Head of the Hyde School, served as the chairperson[/color]; Christopher Norris, Assistant Head of Proctor Academy, served as co-chair of this committee. Other members were John N. Buxton, Assistant Headmaster of St. Paul's School; Nancy Juliano, Foreign Language Department Head, The Ethel Walker School; C. Jay Readinger, Business Manager, Moses Brown School; and Joyce Wilson, Mathematics Department Head, Suffield Academy. The committee read a 1450 page report, interviewed students, faculty, and parents, observed classes, studied policies and student files before submitting a 28 page report which concluded, "The Visiting Committee departed Great Barrington inspired by what it saw and excited for the future of the School."

The John Dewey Academy not only has the smallest enrollment but also is the first proprietary school to receive accreditation from The New England Association of Schools and Colleges. The John Dewey Academy is a residential, twelve months, college preparatory, therapeutic high school which provides intensive educational and counseling for self-destructive, acting-out, gifted adolescents who possesses superior innate intellectual and creative potential. Some students had been hospitalized. Many arrive medicated, though none currently are.

Dr. Thomas Bratter, president, states, "The New England Association of Schools and Colleges has demonstrated its integrity and courage by approving this quality school because in view of my personal legal difficulties, the decision could have been delayed. Quite understandably the entire John Dewey Academy appreciates and is honored to become the newest accredited school by NEASC.

Copyright © 1993, Woodbury Reports, Inc. (This article may be reproduced without prior approval if the copyright notice and proper publication and author attribution accompanies the copy.)

[Anonymous]

YEAH, i read the website, and thought...definietly hyde, very weird

[AuntieEm2]

The foxes accrediting the other foxes to watch the henhouse. Thanks for the info, Ursu.

Auntie Em

[Anne Bonney]

Insular and incestuous.

[AuntieEm2]

It's really an inescapable conclusion, isn't it? I have worked in a number of different industries and have never seen this level of inbreeding. In addition to performing their own oversight and accreditation (the Montana law that put the industry in charge of policing itself comes to mind), there is continual pat-on-the-back reinforcement that it's okay to use a "therapy" model that is not in accordance with in any respected standard of care that is practiced or taught at major universities or mental health institutions.

Very often I have to remind people (family) that my niece (who supposedly has all these newly-discovered mental illnesses) is not at a mental health facility. If she actually is as bad as her parents say, then why isn't she in a mental health facility getting professional care?

I say, "If she were in a mental hospital, there would be visiting hours. If she were in a juvenile detention facility, there would be visiting hours. Why has she been kept completely isolated for two years?"

Grrrrr, I hope her parents choke on their Christmas dinner.

Auntie Em

[Ursus]

LOLS.  Folks, the cronyism and incestuousness gets even better...

There isn't too much mention of John Dewy Academy here in the threads, but apparently there have been a few placements of kids in both the JDA and Elan schools and a few of them have seen fit to discuss JDA briefly in the Elan threads.  Some quotes:

Hey, I was looking up criticisms of John Dewey Academy on the net, and very suprisingly i found almost none. This isn't to say that JDA is not a beneficial school for those who complete it, but my story as a very brief student there (a few years ago by now) was outright ridiculous. When my parents came down to help me out after I was having trouble in my second week, Mr. Bratter called my Mother a "stupid bitch" because she disagreed with his idea of making me wear an eight inch dildo around my neck, to signify that I was going to be raped if i ever left the school. Then i was also told that I would be selling myself out on the street to make a living as a 15 year old boy. Tom Bratter may have helped a lot of people out, and I don't deny it, but I just want people to have a better idea of the bullshit that he will pull when provoked (and i certainly did provoke it) By the way i was also threatened to go to Elan, and managed to convince my parents to turn back about 40 minutes from the entrance. Thank fucking God
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=43636#43636

yeah, i was stouched by an angel instead of a fucking Mainer Heroin addict. Maine Sucks worse than a vietnamese jizz whore.
OH yeah, i forgot to mention this, Tom's desk drawer and the "leave at anytime policy is bullshit" i left and Tom called the cops on me, only to bring me back so he could tell me "think of me when you're getting raped" and then sent me to the police station.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=43769#43769

Who are you? That you went to JDA?? I went there...ugh....
Were you there around the time...when Tom Bratter was getting acussed of molesting a girl in Scarsedale? I looked it up online to see if I could find any stories about it but I couldnt find it.
I remember, when I first met him with my mom, and heard he was being accused of those rape charges, I felt he was capable of those things, from thevibe I got from him....(If your a girl, you can get vibes from men by the way they look at you) ewwww.....
He used to plan outings, which involved going to his actual house!
What kind of owner at a theraputical boarding school, plans an all day event at his personal house? I remember we all went to his house, we had a huge bar-b-que, and me and like 2 girls and a couple of guys and Tom Bratter, sat in this huge jacuzzi/hot tob on his back porch. The only things I can remember loving about JDA now that I think back is, being able to do whatever you wanted when you needed too, the beautiful ceiling in my bed room,the huge Castle the I lived in, the painting I have that I painted of JDA while sitting under a tree outside of the whole front of the school actually, it was the back. Playing sports in front. Sitting on the pay phone down stairs by the main bathroom with my feet up. Walking to the store to buy shampoo and stuff. Talking to the strange yet intresting people in that small town of Great Barrington.
Whatever...and more....
I left 3 times--from JDA on the bus t Port Authority to stay in NYC with my cousin. I remember I used to buy my ticket at that store across the road, that sold ickets and I was 16 yrs old, which in that town was a legal age for smoking traveling etc...like 18 is here, 16 then was like being 18. I remember saying fuck it, buying a pack of smokes(bc you couldnt smoke there) and smoking smokes while waiting for the bus, and like 3 people from the school saying come on Jenn come back to JDA. I was like hell no. They couldnt restrain, grab or force youthere that was in humane-not even thought of behavior...
Anyways--
what else can I say? Mike should call him up and say"Hey I was intrested in sending my daughter there, although I was a little concerned because I heard the owner(Tom Bratter) was acussed of molesting a girl at JDA....
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=44175#44175

Hey... my name's Josie and I went to John Dewey, ran away, then got sent to Elan. I graduated from Elan and then my mom sent me BACK to JDA. She said that she didn't want me to go home and fuck up again. Well, I ran away again. That place made no sense. It was like, we would have these groups and Tom would get in my face and tell me I wasn't getting to my issues, and I was like, "what issues? Please tell me what you're talking about it, and I'll do the best I can to work through them." Well, he never did. I just used to sit in groups and cry while he screamed at me for something, I have no idea what.

I called up Tania M crying, telling her it wasn't fair that I busted my ass at Elan and then I was back at that fucking place. It was nice, it was a castle, but there was something not right about it, you know? Did you ever go in the basement? It was an old slaughterhouse and there was a big hook hanging from the ceiling.

My first time through, I was in with the girl that ended up suing him for abuse. I don't think that she would have lied about it. Tom B was a creep from hell. I can't believe that he still runs that place. He should be locked up.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=76142#76142[/list]

Okay, now take a look again at that last paragraph from that aforementioned 1993 News Bit:

Dr. Thomas Bratter, president, states, "The New England Association of Schools and Colleges has demonstrated its integrity and courage by approving this quality school because in view of my personal legal difficulties, the decision could have been delayed. Quite understandably the entire John Dewey Academy appreciates and is honored to become the newest accredited school by NEASC.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews02.html [/list]

GEEEZ... Wonder what that's all about, ha ha!  Of course, you know that not even 15 years earlier than this accreditation visit in 1993, Malcolm Gauld's own father, Joseph Gauld -- founder of Hyde Schools and great espouser of "character education" -- was carrying on an affair with a former female student who was in her sophomore year in college, this incident being within a couple of years of when co-founder Sumner Hawley was also allegedly carrying on with a former male student... both of these affairs taking place while both administrators were not only married but also teaching and/or administering and/or in some way unequivocally involved with the school.  And yep, the school knew all about them; perhaps not when the affairs commenced, but certainly not too long after that.

Great examples of character education and good family values, eh?  I guess Mal would know all about how to make those pesky sexual harassment charges go away.

[Ursus]

What does it mean for college admissions when you have a "school" that is willing to fabricate the accomplishments of it's students?

Wouldn't be the first time.  Ultimately, it doesn't do the kids any favors.  They still have to pay the piper later on down the line.  

It's meant to benefit the fabricating institution, as in... stats they can cite.  Sooner or later, college admins get wise to it though, and share information with one another.  Then:  fabricators beware!  

Perhaps this is what is behind the John Dewey Academy student who got denied admission to Amherst College, and Bratter's bleating about a possible lawsuit?  A simple "admission denied" wouldn't seem to warrant such dramatic rhetoric, eh?

[Anonymous]

it's going to get future john dewey kids in trouble. If word gets out that  JD sues schools that don't accept students....that's a blacklisting

[Ursus]

it's going to get future john dewey kids in trouble. If word gets out that  JD sues schools that don't accept students....that's a blacklisting

I agree.  It totally sucks for the kids in the long run.  The fact that Bratter submitted that letter as a press release to StrugglingTeens is probably already making the rounds amongst the Admissions offices.  That on the heels of what he has written about: intimations of a lawsuit against Amherst College for denying a student admission, and whatever else that situation entailed.

Bratter probably thinks his efforts will give parents the overall impression that he is so dedicated, and cares so much about his students, that he is willing to write 40-page recommendation letters and even sue institutions in order to ensure a happy voyage for his charges with their "painful and pathetic pasts."

It is one thing for a parent to get up in arms.  Happens all the time.  Even individuals or groups of individuals (e.g., class action suits of discrimination).  It is quite another for an "educational institution" to do so.  That's bad press, and bad protocol.  Secondary and university level institutions are supposed to work together to convey the tacit illusion that the educational system in this country is fair and assessable to everyone, that all is well or at least civil in the hallowed halls of higher learning.  Bratter's bombastics threaten his own nose to spite his face.

[Che Gookin]

Anyone who sent me a 40 page reccomendation letter would absolutely be assured of a rejection based on length of the letter alone.

You seriously think some overworked admissions clerk has time to read a 40 page sack of shit acceptance letter?

That is like sending in a 40 page resume. Who the hell is gonna read a piece of crap like that? Round file time...

[Ursus]

Anyone who sent me a 40 page reccomendation letter would absolutely be assured of a rejection based on length of the letter alone.

Perhaps that is what happened in this case!  Perhaps that is what the lawsuit is all about, ha ha!  Maybe Bratter's tried this stunt before with Amherst College, they are sick and tired of it, and they're putting their foot down.  "No longer than 20 pages, buddy!  This student is not getting in on principle!"  And Bratter says, "I'll see you in court!"

Bratter said that his longest recommendation letter was 40 pages, the shortest was 18, and the average was 30 pages long.  Maybe this prospective Amherst College student had the 40 page recommendation letter, and hence got the short end of the stick!

You seriously think some overworked admissions clerk has time to read a 40 page sack of shit acceptance letter?

That is like sending in a 40 page resume. Who the hell is gonna read a piece of crap like that? Round file time...

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
I wouldn't, if I were you.  Your plumbing will never recover.  That's like trying to cram a small tree down your toilet.