Holding parents accountable

[TheWho]

Fornits, unlike the industry, never claims to be all knowing. Folks here only have passion and the truth of their experience. If you don't like what you hear go back to the fairy tale you claim is so wonderful.

If you claim to have passion and truth why dont you point out the better programs (As George Miller pointed out) where thousands of kids do well each year and helping out some of these parents who read here instead of lieing to them and saying none exist?

[lorrispickelmire]

P.S. My mother is crazy as a freaking loon.

[hanzomon4]

Fornits, unlike the industry, never claims to be all knowing. Folks here only have passion and the truth of their experience. If you don't like what you hear go back to the fairy tale you claim is so wonderful.

If you claim to have passion and truth why dont you point out the better programs (As George Miller pointed out) where thousands of kids do well each year and helping out some of these parents who read here instead of lieing to them and saying none exist?

Because it's irrelevant, as Miller pointed out, to the issue of abuse. Miller never said anything about thousands of kids doing well, he said he was sure some did well. The only thousands mentioned were the thousands of complaints received by the GAO alleging abuse and death.

[Anonymous]

There are kids who do well in programs despite the program.  If you put 14,000 kids a year into a program, some of them will make it out the other end without being screwed up.  It is recognized that many of the problems of adolescence are solved by time. There is no evidence that anything done in these programs actually helps the kids.

There is no scientific evidence that residential therapeutic facilities help more than they harm. All of the available evidence points the other way.

[TheWho]

Fornits, unlike the industry, never claims to be all knowing. Folks here only have passion and the truth of their experience. If you don't like what you hear go back to the fairy tale you claim is so wonderful.

If you claim to have passion and truth why dont you point out the better programs (As George Miller pointed out) where thousands of kids do well each year and helping out some of these parents who read here instead of lieing to them and saying none exist?

Because it's irrelevant, as Miller pointed out, to the issue of abuse.

Not to the kids who need help and could be helped if some people here would look past themselves and put down individual vendettas and help some other parents out.

[Anonymous]

Kids who need help do not need to be subjected to therapeutic boarding schools, they need help. They need help from someone that can actually help them, not therapeutic boarding schools.

[hanzomon4]

Fornits, unlike the industry, never claims to be all knowing. Folks here only have passion and the truth of their experience. If you don't like what you hear go back to the fairy tale you claim is so wonderful.

If you claim to have passion and truth why dont you point out the better programs (As George Miller pointed out) where thousands of kids do well each year and helping out some of these parents who read here instead of lieing to them and saying none exist?

Because it's irrelevant, as Miller pointed out, to the issue of abuse.

Not to the kids who need help and could be helped if some people here would look past themselves and put down individual vendettas and help some other parents out.

We help parents out but we are not Edcons, we don't make referrals for a fee, and again this board is about children abused in programs. It's not about kids with problems, although many here will offer up suggestions that some parents choose to dismiss because it's not the sure thing they want to hear.

It's the programs, with all of their shiny promises, that you need to piss on for lying to parents.

[Rachael]

If an unintentional by-product of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima was someone coming to a new amazing revelation about the nature of their very soul - it would be irrelevant to the fact that thousands died. It doesn't mean it's irrelevant in and of itself - just that in the story of how thousands burned to death or experienced life-long debilitating after-effects, it has no significance.

[TheWho]

There are kids who do well in programs despite the program.  If you put 14,000 kids a year into a program, some of them will make it out the other end without being screwed up.  It is recognized that many of the problems of adolescence are solved by time. There is no evidence that anything done in these programs actually helps the kids.

There is no scientific evidence that residential therapeutic facilities help more than they harm. All of the available evidence points the other way.

Actually all the evidence points towards the kids getting the help they need and Yes, some will die and some will be abused... I think what the comittee would like to address are those who are dieing and getting abused,  but lets not stop the majority of the other kids from getting help in the process.
The panel today was set up to focus on those children who are abused and were killed, not on the ones who benefit from the schools, so they were not discussed, as we would expect.
The panel recognizes the benefits of the industry because they have seen the results, what they are concerned with are those schools which are tolerating abuse and neglect.  No one wants the industry to go away except people here on fornits.

[TheWho]

If an unintentional by-product of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima was someone coming to a new amazing revelation about the nature of their very soul - it would be irrelevant to the fact that thousands died. It doesn't mean it's irrelevant in and of itself - just that in the story of how thousands burned to death or experienced life-long debilitating after-effects, it has no significance.

Yes but what if 3 people need to die to prevent the bomb from dropping on hiroshima?
Are 3 deaths worth while?  Should we shut down the entire industry because a percentage die? Maybe?  What do we say to all the kids who can benefit from these schools, who now have no place to go?

Why not focus on preventing the 3 deaths and saving the other kids as well?

[lorrispickelmire]

Pitbull Mom wrote:

Survivors who have not yet become parents will never understand the complexities of parenting until they have their own kids. It doesn't come with a manual. I am an involved mom with active kids. I have NEVER met a parent yet who "gets off on their kid's suffering". I have never met a parent who just decides to send their kid to a hellhole. Wouldn't even occur to 99% of parents. A parent would have to be on the emotional level of Jeffery Dahmer to even entertain such thoughts.

I am a survivor who was tortured in one of these programs, and I am the mother of a 19 year old son. You are either stupid or terribly gullible.  There are parents all over the place that get off on their children's suffering, if there weren't, we wouldn't need a department of the government set up for the protection of such children.  My father is a sadist and a child rapist, so I know of which I speak on a very personal level.  A parent who sends their child off without thoroughly investigating a facility and all allegations of abuse associated with them is culpable for any abuse that should happen to their child.  I will agree with you that there is no manual, but that is not an excuse for negligence.

[Rachael]

In the vast majority of cases, these kids don't need help in the first place. They may have issues that need to be dealt with - crazy homelives, past traumatic experiences, grief and loss, etc. But they do not need the "tough love" treatment provided at the hands of these money-grubbing corporations. They are just kids dealing with the less-than-perfect lives they've been handed as best they can. What the "troubled teen" industry seeks to do is to shake a child up until they come to realize the error of their ways and change out of fear of further punishment. This a) doesn't work and b) is not in any way ethical. This is what is coming to light at the moment.

[TheWho]

In the vast majority of cases, these kids don't need help in the first place.

you dont know that, and the treatment is effective for most kids.

[Rachael]

I do know that. I was one of those kids - and 28 of the 30 I was in with didn't need help either.

[Rachael]

In the vast majority of cases, these kids don't need help in the first place.

you dont know that, and the treatment is effective for most kids.

Bullshit!

And you know it too! You do not have a single piece of evidence to prove this statement. Name one single un-biased study produced by an un-affiliated research body backing you up.

I dare you!