GAO Hearing???

[psy]

Miller's group probably doesn't want to be bothered so they delegated responsibility to someone else with a vested interest in the issues at hand, is my guess.  This is typically how these hearings work which is why some may choose to send their letters or email direct, by certified mail if need be.

SURE HOPE THERE ARE SURVIVORS PLANNING TO ATTEND, AND/OR PROTEST SINCE THEY ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED.  THAT'S THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET. ITS PARENTS.

screw you. I'm the PARENT of a child who didn't even SURVIVE, and suffered the worst possible abuse - he DIED. so just go fuck yourself saying parents don't care.

Look.  A parent with a dead kid doesn't need any more punishment, however, I do agree that survivors not being represented at the GAO hearing is troubling to say the very least.  My feeling is some political calculatrix decided our voices weren't politically convenient or credible enough for the public at large (possibly correct, considering people's common assumptions and prejudices about "troubled teens")...

That being said, we still aren't represented, sadly, and without legal recourse, what else left is there?  Every day, all across this country: Torture of the body, rape of the mind, erasure of identity, murder of soul... What about those who wished they had died rather than go through what they did and end up like they did.  What about those who are dead inside.  What about those who I witnessed try to take their lives to get out, even temporarily, to be away from the stress, drama, and every day verbal confrontations that left everybody at each other's throats.  What about being trained like a dog, humiliated in public.  What about the systematic engineering of a critical failure in a person's life to create make a buck...

I think we all have a right to speak, and yes, I am a little upset that reportedly no survivors are testifying.  I would protest, but It would probably end up being detrimental to the cause in the long run, but then again, i'd have to think about it and weigh the pros and cons.  On the other hand, it might be nice to get some answers to some questions i'm sure we're all itching to ask.  Well.  What happens, happens.  I'll be there, and hanging around for the after-party.

[Pitbull Mom]

Pitbull Mom, you need to calm down and look at the big picture.

The industry has been abusing the rights of children for going on 4 decades.  There are survivors of residential treatment abuse whose parents betrayed them when they were teens and to this day, still believe they were justified in committing them into an abusive program under the auspices of therapy or treatment.    Read about Straight.  The Seed.  Kids Helping Kids.  The Cult-Like anti-drug programs produced thousands of now-grown adults with wounded hearts, souls and spirits.  They are some of the most courageous warriors and should be testifying.  Shame on Miller and his group if it turns out these hearings are comprised of parents giving testimony and special interests groups like A Start.

If there are NO SURVIVORS of institutionalized child abuse testifying, that says alot.  My advice is get organized NOW.  Start making signs and planning your speeches.  The media will be out IN FORCE along with industry people.  

NOW IS THE TIME for the advocates and activists to rally the troops and make sure the survivors are represented even if they aren't allowed and/or otherwise "invited" to testify.

WHY THE HELL DO I NEED TO CALM DOWN? My son is DEAD for pete's sake, and I am working full time to try to do something about it.  Apparently no one gives a damn. I just don't think parents of dead children should be banned or treated like crap on this board, or any parent who got duped for that matter. If they are on fornits, they are trying to learn something. I have just as much to say as a survivor, and I don't treat them like crap.  I have read about the abuse, i'm not a stupid or lame parent.  I am also a wounded soul.  I got duped. That doesn't make me a bad parent. I have spent most of every day for months now contacting officials in Utah and Nevada, legislators, media, etc.  I talked to the GAO. We got so little notice about the hearing it makes it tough to have a voice at this hearing if you aren't one of the witnesses. I too hope that there are witnesses who are Survivors, and Parents of Suvivors, and Parents of kids who didn't Survive. These groups are not necessarily factions without similar interests here. How many of the assholes who called me a murderer even bothered to call Ken Stettler and complain. Zero, I bet.

[Anonymous]

I think that was just an attempt to explain why you get some of the reactions you do.  Everyone feels for your loss but it doesn't mean people aren't going to speak their minds.  No one's telling you to leave or that you can't post.  The victims of these places have earned their anger.  Sometimes you're just going to have to overlook it.

[Pitbull Mom]

Miller's group probably doesn't want to be bothered so they delegated responsibility to someone else with a vested interest in the issues at hand, is my guess.  This is typically how these hearings work which is why some may choose to send their letters or email direct, by certified mail if need be.

SURE HOPE THERE ARE SURVIVORS PLANNING TO ATTEND, AND/OR PROTEST SINCE THEY ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED.  THAT'S THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET. ITS PARENTS.

screw you. I'm the PARENT of a child who didn't even SURVIVE, and suffered the worst possible abuse - he DIED. so just go fuck yourself saying parents don't care.

Look.  A parent with a dead kid doesn't need any more punishment, however, I do agree that survivors not being represented at the GAO hearing is troubling to say the very least.  My feeling is some political calculatrix decided our voices weren't politically convenient or credible enough for the public at large (possibly correct, considering people's common assumptions and prejudices about "troubled teens")...

That being said, we still aren't represented, sadly, and without legal recourse, what else left is there?  Every day, all across this country: Torture of the body, rape of the mind, erasure of identity, murder of soul... What about those who wished they had died rather than go through what they did and end up like they did.  What about those who I witnessed try to take their lives to get out, even temporarily, to be away from the stress, drama, and every day verbal confrontations that left everybody at each other's throats.  What about being trained like a dog, humiliated in public.  What about the systematic engineering of a critical failure in a person's life to create make a buck...

I think we all have a right to speak, and yes, I am a little upset that reportedly no survivors are testifying.  I would protest, but It would probably end up being detrimental to the cause in the long run, but then again, i'd have to think about it and weigh the pros and cons.  On the other hand, it might be nice to get some answers to some questions i'm sure we're all itching to ask.  Well.  What happens, happens.  I'll be there, and hanging around for the after-party.

If NO survivors are truly being allowed to testify, that is a travesty, and you need to make a really Big Stink. I hope all of you survivors are showing up. I wish I could be there to support you.  (And I have a very large lab puppy that make really big, really useful piles.) I will continue up until the hour of the hearing to try to find a voice for you. And for my beautiful son Brendan Blum, who didn't make it.

[psy]

Miller's group probably doesn't want to be bothered so they delegated responsibility to someone else with a vested interest in the issues at hand, is my guess.  This is typically how these hearings work which is why some may choose to send their letters or email direct, by certified mail if need be.

SURE HOPE THERE ARE SURVIVORS PLANNING TO ATTEND, AND/OR PROTEST SINCE THEY ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED.  THAT'S THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET. ITS PARENTS.

screw you. I'm the PARENT of a child who didn't even SURVIVE, and suffered the worst possible abuse - he DIED. so just go fuck yourself saying parents don't care.

Look.  A parent with a dead kid doesn't need any more punishment, however, I do agree that survivors not being represented at the GAO hearing is troubling to say the very least.  My feeling is some political calculatrix decided our voices weren't politically convenient or credible enough for the public at large (possibly correct, considering people's common assumptions and prejudices about "troubled teens")...

That being said, we still aren't represented, sadly, and without legal recourse, what else left is there?  Every day, all across this country: Torture of the body, rape of the mind, erasure of identity, murder of soul... What about those who wished they had died rather than go through what they did and end up like they did.  What about those who I witnessed try to take their lives to get out, even temporarily, to be away from the stress, drama, and every day verbal confrontations that left everybody at each other's throats.  What about being trained like a dog, humiliated in public.  What about the systematic engineering of a critical failure in a person's life to create make a buck...

I think we all have a right to speak, and yes, I am a little upset that reportedly no survivors are testifying.  I would protest, but It would probably end up being detrimental to the cause in the long run, but then again, i'd have to think about it and weigh the pros and cons.  On the other hand, it might be nice to get some answers to some questions i'm sure we're all itching to ask.  Well.  What happens, happens.  I'll be there, and hanging around for the after-party.

If NO survivors are truly being allowed to testify, that is a travesty, and you need to make a really Big Stink. I hope all of you survivors are showing up. I wish I could be there to support you.  (And I have a very large lab puppy that make really big, really useful piles.)

Sweet!  I love dogs (my parents have two, one which I raised from a puppy).

I will continue up until the hour of the hearing to try to find a voice for you. And for my beautiful son Brendan Blum, who didn't make it.

Yeah.  Even if survivors don't testify, the more important issue is raising awareness.  The problem is when the level of awareness is controlled (for whatever reason).  Ultimately, however most parents who have been around here are a while have opinions and goals that are pretty similar to that of most local survivors.  We'll see what happens.  It isn't too late to contact the committee and bitch them out (diplomatically, of course), but i'm not sure how much they'll listen.  Maybe we have to make our own noise.

[Deborah]

So, you organize an event for all those not allowed to testify. Do it professionally. Rent a meeting space near the hearing. Send out press releases and invite the press to your event. Select the most able among you to speak for the group. Be organized. Have people sign up to speak. Set a time limit for each speaker, etc.
You're likely to get more notice is this isn't done in opposition to, but in support of the GAO's investigation. I have no idea why survivors aren't allowed, if that's true, but it could be that there are limits on time/number of speakers, and a few survivors may have already been selected. Remember, this has been in the planning for a while. With any luck, he has selected those he feels will have the strongest impact on the committee.

There's one thing I'd particularly like to see come from this. That all programs have to report to a central agency re accidents, deaths, sexual/physical assaults, amputations, chronic digestive/health issues due to inadequate diet, etc. etc. etc.
If the "free market economy" approach to shutting down the industry touted here is to work, it will work best, if/when parents get the real stats on the industry.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=269064#269064

[Pitbull Mom]

So, you organize an event for all those not allowed to testify. Do it professionally. Rent a meeting space near the hearing. Send out press releases and invite the press to your event. Select the most able among you to speak for the group. Be organized. Have people sign up to speak. Set a time limit for each speaker, etc.
You're likely to get more notice is this isn't done in opposition to, but in support of the GAO's investigation. I have no idea why survivors aren't allowed, if that's true, but it could be that there are limits on time/number of speakers, and a few survivors may have already been selected. Remember, this has been in the planning for a while. With any luck, he has selected those he feels will have the strongest impact on the committee.

There's one thing I'd particularly like to see come from this. That all programs have to report to a central agency re accidents, deaths, sexual/physical assaults, amputations, chronic digestive/health issues due to inadequate diet, etc. etc. etc.
If the "free market economy" approach to shutting down the industry touted here is to work, it will work best, if/when parents get the real stats on the industry.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=269064#269064

What do others, survivors or others, want to see come from this hearing? I'm sending another letter to each of the committe members tomorrow, and I'll be happy to include any comments you want to include here,  or PM me.

I'd really like to see you survivors do what Deb suggests. Having a very professional approach will get you noticed. Make some real noise.

[Che Gookin]

Or... we do our very best to block the legislation when it goes through senate.

[Anonymous]

Is a list of witnesses available? How do we know if there are, or are not any survivors on the witness list?

[Anonymous]

WHY THE HELL DO I NEED TO CALM DOWN? My son is DEAD for pete's sake, and I am working full time to try to do something about it.  Apparently no one gives a damn. I just don't think parents of dead children should be banned or treated like crap on this board, or any parent who got duped for that matter. If they are on fornits, they are trying to learn something. I have just as much to say as a survivor, and I don't treat them like crap.  I have read about the abuse, i'm not a stupid or lame parent.  I am also a wounded soul.  I got duped. That doesn't make me a bad parent. I have spent most of every day for months now contacting officials in Utah and Nevada, legislators, media, etc.  I talked to the GAO. We got so little notice about the hearing it makes it tough to have a voice at this hearing if you aren't one of the witnesses. I too hope that there are witnesses who are Survivors, and Parents of Suvivors, and Parents of kids who didn't Survive. These groups are not necessarily factions without similar interests here. How many of the assholes who called me a murderer even bothered to call Ken Stettler and complain. Zero, I bet.

Bolded part = LOL!!  Learn what?!

[Anonymous]

I have learned a lot about how the abusive residential therapeutic industry works from fornits. It alerted me to the dangers and caused me to search other places for more information. I predict that within my lifetime, these places will be illegal and sending your child to such a place would be considered child abuse. This has already started. In Florida, parents were convicted of child endangerment for attempting to send their child to Tranquility Bay.  

I would love to see it made a crime for a parent to attempt to send their child to another state for a therapeutic boarding school. If the kid needs mental help, there are resources available in every state. The only reason a kid would be shipped out of state is because the parents have bought into some abusive residential therapeutic facility's marketing crap.

[Anonymous]

You've learned a lot about a few programs that mistreated kids.  This proposed legislation is to end institutionalized child abuse - who would object to that?  No one.  Not even NATSAP.  Get your facts from the actual bill.  The good programs out there aren't objecting to the premise of the bill or the fact that there are bad programs out there that should be shut down.  And yes, my friends, there are good programs whose intent is to help kids.  Don't let the mistreatment you endured from a program lead you to generalize about all programs now... that's English 101 and a straw man's argument ("I don't like broccoli, broccoli is a vegetable, therefore I don't like any vegetables").

And you certainly cannot be claiming that state funded programs are a good substitute for sending your kids to appropriate treatment out of state - or do you live in Canada where the healthcare system is vastly better?

[Che Gookin]

Interesting.. if you look at the bill with a bit of caution you will realize it calls for increasing funding for the licensing of programs. Nothing about the abolition of bad programs seems to be present in the document. All very convient to those programs hiding out behind their state licenses. How many of them are abusive?

Quite the few..

Natsap is jumping heads over heels for this legislation because it allows them to claim some sort of moral superiority over other parts of the industry that are undeniably outrageously evil. Let us examine the crucial facts though:

Peninsula Village: Licensed.. proven abusive.
Benchmark: provisional license.. proven abusive..
Hidden Lake Academy: temporary license.... proven abusive...
Three Springs: Licensed.. proven abusive..
Eckerd Youth Alternative: Licensed.. 1 kid killed.. how many more?
Youth Care: license under review.. I'm giving them good odds that they get it back also...1 young man killed how many more?
Aspen: proven to contain abusive programmes. all licensed..



So really do tell me why it matters if there are these so called good programmes in existence? They still strip a human being of their given rights to due process, dignity, and humanity. You are the sort that calls for help for kids via programmes. Myself, and a great many of the posters on this forum, are the sorts that call for help for children right in their own community.

I'll go a step further than some others. I really do believe that if the parents want outside support that is their right as parents. However, I do not believe that it should be the right of the parent to have their children kidnapped from their own homes, locked away in a private facility, deprived of contact from the outside world, and further subjected to the so called "good treatement" technigues of these so called "good programmes".

I've been hesitant to speak my real feelings on this proposed legislation in the past. However, I now feel no fear, and frankly don't really care much about what the rest of the forum/community believes.

I 100 percent oppose the proposed legislation in the form that exists. Should this appalling piece of legislation pass through congress and be signed into power by the president we will have built the launching pad for the perpetuation of abuse to young men and women in programmes for years to come.

Let us not fall prey to the strawman arguement of good programme versus bad programme. Let us be very clear sighted when we realize that in no way should the parents alone have the power to deprive their children of their human rights. Such rights that include access to the outside world, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, and freedom to deny unwanted therapy.

You can't force therapy on a person without it automatically becoming brain-washing.

Care without consent is wrong.

Thank you all end of rant.

[Anonymous]

No, the proposed bill is not to end institutionalized child abuse.  That is a virtual impossibility as long as children are treated as the private property of their parents.

The real shame is that the testimony of survivors and even certain advocates is being suppressed in order to shield the United States government from any accountability or liability for turning a blind eye and a deft ear to the hundreds of allegations made over the years.  

I just hope anyone who can attend the hearings and IS A SURVIVOR comes prepared with statements to pass out to the media to make sure your voice is heard.  Ditto any former staff who can provide testimony to support survivors.

Instead of parents being interviewed by the mainstream press, industry representatives, and special interest groups like A-Start grabbing the headlines, the attention should be on the YOUTH who are the true victims.  It is an outrage that survivors are being shoved aside.  Call Miller's office and the Committee and let them know how you feel about this travesty.  Tell them there are thousands of victims and it is unconsciounable that you are not being properly represented.

Deborah's suggestion was very good and could be easily implemented.

Please don't go down without a fight.

[Che Gookin]

what he said^^^^ times 5.