Author Topic: Appropriate?  (Read 4616 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« on: August 13, 2007, 07:18:48 PM »
A Party member is expected to have no private emotions and no respites from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies and internal traitors, triumph over victories, and self-abasement before the power and wisdom of the Party. The discontents produced by his bare, unsatisfying life are deliberately turned outwards and dissipated by such devices as the Two Minutes Hate, and the speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline. The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, crimestop. Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity. But stupidity is not enough. On the contrary, orthodoxy in the full sense demands a control over one's own mental processes as complete as that of a contortionist over his body. Oceanic society rests ultimately on the belief that Big Brother is omnipotent and that the Party is infallible. But since in reality Big Brother is not omnipotent and the party is not infallible, there is need for an unwearying, moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts. The keyword here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 01:56:05 AM »
is this from a book or just your head?
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 08:05:12 AM »
I recognize it from Orwell's classic novel "1984" (which I read for the first time while in Straight, Inc. in the year 1984. How's that for irony?)

I also read "A Clockwork Orange" while I was in there...
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 04:46:52 PM »
Ya know, sometimes I have to agree with those who say Va Straight was a cake walk by comparison to some other locations. In Sarasota, things like daze off and reading 'priviledges' were purely theoretical. They kept us all so thoroughly occupied and sleep deprived that all anybody ever did when they had time was to sleep. If you tried to double up and read while the newcomers were around you'd run the risk of being reported for turning your back on your newcomer. And I never would have run the risk of reading something as controversial as 1984 or CO.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 08:07:57 PM »
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Ya know, sometimes I have to agree with those who say Va Straight was a cake walk by comparison to some other locations. In Sarasota, things like daze off and reading 'priviledges' were purely theoretical. They kept us all so thoroughly occupied and sleep deprived that all anybody ever did when they had time was to sleep. If you tried to double up and read while the newcomers were around you'd run the risk of being reported for turning your back on your newcomer. And I never would have run the risk of reading something as controversial as 1984 or CO.


As an outsider looking in - I would also be surprised at anyone in Straight safely reading either book. I have always been astounded that reading was prohibited the way it was - That is one of the many aspects of the whole thing that was hard to believe at first. But being as its true - I would think it would take a brave (or crazy) soul to pick such reading material when allowed.

Fro - where you thumbing your nose (so to speak) with those two choices?  Or where those around you so ignorant of literature they had no clue what you were reading - and how it might pertain to them?

I always preferred Animal Farm to 1984. 1984 was just so depressing. I once read clockwork orange - but I can't remember much about it. I do recall the basic premise of corse - but couldn't bring up a single detail if I had to.

BTW Chicklet - seen any good movies lately?
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 08:10:55 PM »
I'm dying for a good movie,

I've only been reading some star wars books to the little brother lately, better then the movies...

If foreign movies don't turn you off checkout Amélie, it's a classic.
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 01:24:23 AM »
Ginger- I won’t deny that. There are people who would be upset by that remark and perhaps even pissed at you because you dared compare your branch of hell with theirs saying that yours was worse, but I’m certainly not one of them. Some folks just can’t handle the truth, I guess. They’d proceed to go on about how you “minimized their experienceâ€
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Offline webdiva

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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2007, 02:59:54 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
I was from Baltimore so I felt quite displaced regardless, and in more ways than one, lol.


Gee Frod, one would think you don't like virginia much...  and i can imagine feeling displaced. at least near home if you do cop out you have somewhere to run.  i can't imagine after running 6 times how steve would have felt being dragged up to cincinnatti... makes sense that he would jump from a moving car just to get away.

i just never understood the need to compare especially if it's from the perspective of "i had it worse than you" lol and? your point? lol that's not aimed at you frod just generally speaking.
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Offline webdiva

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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2007, 03:36:38 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
If foreign movies don't turn you off checkout Amélie, it's a classic.


I don't normally do foreign films cuz i have double vision, if i want to have a drink while watching a film, which i sometimes do, double vision turns triple.  subtitles are very very annoying when this occurs... lol seriously.

However I did watch Amélie a few years ago and what a great movie.  Plus the lead actress is just so adorable, she really owns the role.  

A few i'd recommend that aren't all that "common".

"Memento", great flick. So is "Primer" if you dont mind watching it a couple times it takes at least 2 viewings to totally "get" what you just watched lol.  "Pi" of course is another fabulous film. "In America" is quite good, about a family from ireland who comes to the US to start a new life, present day. Really great acting, the kids are priceless.

Another really good foreign film is "Nobody Knows" a Japanese movie about 4 siblings who basically get abandoned by their mother and have to fend for themselves.  It's heart breaking yet really great.  at the same time.  Highly recommended if you like good film.

Speaking of a clockwork orange... i need to read the book one of these days. it's by far one of my favorite films but i know the book is much better than the film so yeah i need to check that out.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 09:19:01 PM »
Yeah Memento is a real mind binder, great film.

Non Foreign films that are pretty good, um...

I liked both Freeways 1 and 2 confessions of a trick baby, Night at the Golden Eagle, Lucky Number Slevin(I was surprised at how good this one was), Life Aquatic... I tend to like indie style movies that are a little off center...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Froderik

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 11:16:44 AM »
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Gee Frod, one would think you don't like virginia much...
Let's just say I didn't get the best first impression!  :rofl: :rofl:

Quote
i just never understood the need to compare especially if it's from the perspective of "i had it worse than you" lol and? your point? lol that's not aimed at you frod just generally speaking.

Hmm.. maybe just for acknowledgement... that their environment (the branch of hell they were in) was worse in some ways than other environments... Not to go so far as to make a sweeping statement like "I had it worse than you did" or anything... I look at it as a sort of scientific observation, nothing more.
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Offline webdiva

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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2007, 12:38:09 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Gee Frod, one would think you don't like virginia much...
Let's just say I didn't get the best first impression!  :rofl: :rofl:

Quote
i just never understood the need to compare especially if it's from the perspective of "i had it worse than you" lol and? your point? lol that's not aimed at you frod just generally speaking.
Hmm.. maybe just for acknowledgement... that their environment (the branch of hell they were in) was worse in some ways than other environments... Not to go so far as to make a sweeping statement like "I had it worse than you did" or anything... I look at it as a sort of scientific observation, nothing more.


i should have phrased differently... I just never under stood those who need compare based on who actually had it worse.  thats what i was really referring to. and i dont mean about straight but life in general. obviously beyond that it's understandable. no different then being curious how some person may live in another country etc.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2007, 04:30:41 PM »
I know, Frod. And I don't mean to offend at all. The operative term in my sentence being "by comparison."

It interests me much just lately cause I think the art and news media are about to start taking more and, hopefully, sustained interest in all aspects of the tough love hate group and their pervasive influence.

Willy is onto something when he says "It's not how hard you fall but how good you bounce." But it doesn't always work out that way. The harder you fall the higher the likelihood of breaking and not bouncing back at all or ever again so well.

I often get inquiries from various kinds of researchers and nebs. And I usually point them toward the people with the most interesting or illustrative stories. I'm starting to reconsider the wisdom of that tac. It might be far better to ask someone who wittnessed and experienced enough to give insight but who's lives haven't been so thoroughly wrecked by it. They're just more credible people than some of us.
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2007, 07:07:35 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
I recognize it from Orwell's classic novel "1984" (which I read for the first time while in Straight, Inc. in the year 1984. How's that for irony?)

I also read "A Clockwork Orange" while I was in there...


How funny. I read 1984 when I was at CEDU. A rather subversive teacher snuck it to us, in addition to Lord of the Flies, Childhood's End, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451.

He got fired. Along with his wife, who was the journalism teacher. (Not because of our reading assignments, but because his wife confronted the "academic chair" when he bumped up all of the grades she had given the students to As.) I swear to god, those were the two coolest people I had ever met at that place. God bless the both of them.

I had actually read 1984  years earlier, since it was one of my favorite books.

Believe it or not, we had a library, with a pretty decent sci fi section. (That's where I read Eye of Cat, my favorite Zelazny book.) The only thing we had to watch out for was reading "too much", because then we would be accused of "hiding out", and you would be put on bans from the library, or reading altogether. Needless to say, I  hid out a lot. I acquired a taste for some of the worst hack sci-fi writers out there. Namely Anne McAffrey and Piers Anthony. It was great that I could escape into something other than the CEDU-sanctioned writings of Jack London, Ralph Waldo Emerson, or Walt Whitman, especially since I had several of London's books on the shelf by my bunk, since it was on the CEDU recommended Christmas present list... right next to my never opened copy of The Prophet.

You can only read about dogs so much before it gets boring.

One intriguing  incident I do remember is that one of the students found a book in the library on gestalt, and did a paper on that, basically stating that Mel didn't come up with any of this shit on his own, it all originated with gestalt.

They removed the book from the library when they found out about that.

But seriously, this was interesting about CEDU. They put themselves off as a "cultured" environment, by promoting literature and art with their own slant. A lot of their philosophy was visibly referential to existentialist (and other kinds of) writers, no matter how much the original work had been twisted. We were always quoted a passage from visionaries such as Martin Luther King Jr., or writers such as Ghibran or Hemmingway. (or pure drivel such as Jonathan Livingston Seagull.) When the academic building got finished, they even named rooms after writers. Even the fucking bathrooms were called the Louisa May Alcott suite with Little Men on one side and Little Women on the other.

Because of this, lots of interesting, more subversive stories and books seeped through the cracks/sentries and into our hands. Such as the gestalt book, and some great (and not so great but fun to read) sci-fi. In addition to some rather inspirational stuff such as Naked Came I, which was actually recommended to me by that sleazeball Dan Earle. I even think one of my dormmates was reading "The Great Gatsby" at one point.

I think another reason is because the staff truly didn't feel that any of these books were threatening. (Except for the gestalt one, that hit too close to home.) Especially the anti-utopian novels such as 1984, F451, Brave New World, etc. Because they truly believed that the school's philosophy was fighting the fight against this type of oppression. If CEDU was one thing, it was super-hippified-pie-in-the-sky idealistic in its ideology. You know, the child within, and all that crap.

We had art, too, and I was one of the resident artists, but all of our work was censored and compromised. (and in my case, taken advantage of, since I would be commissioned to do pretty much every fucking thing the school needed done art-wise, and if I didn't do a good enough job, I'd get talked to about it in a rap. Fortunately, that only happened once.) I'd  be embarrassed to show any of that stuff now, but thank god I at least had that outlet, because a lot of times, that and the library were all I had.

Of course, if you violated the terms of CEDU, you could have those "privileges" taken away, despite the fact that these things aren't privileges to begin with, they are rights. It was the one thing I was defiant about at that place. One of the staff confiscated my drawings when I was in lower school because she felt that they looked like devils. (they were elves.) She threatened to take away my drawing privileges. I said no fuckin way. She didn't. And I went back to drawing "devils", even though I wasn't supposed to.

I think part of this is maybe what attracted so many celebrity parents to the CEDU chains. You know, art fags really dig this kinda shit.

Plus, it's more in line with the hippie/new age cult template, as opposed to the gulag/detention facility template such as WWASPS.

Which is what strikes me curious as to the evolution of Straight, since it evolved from the Seed, which was a full-blown cult. Yet their punitive system and environment was sooo different from CEDU's. Was it merely an issue of how two men differed in ideas on how to fuck with young minds? It makes me wonder what were some of the key philosophical differences between Art Barker's way of thinking and Mel Wasserman's. Art was from 12 step, Mel was from Synanon, yet Synanon is credited as having started both entities.

Wait a minute. What the fuck WAS Mel up to before Synanon, anyway? Of course, we can't even get a straight answer as to what he was doing *while* in Synanon, either. If someone published a bio on that asshole, I sure as fuck would read it. As much of an evil person as he was, he sure was fucking interesting. In the same way Koresh was.


As for movies, I love that family guy episode which talks about "Momento".

"Yeah.... it kinda loses its punch the second time around."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2007, 10:16:38 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Yeah Memento is a real mind binder, great film.

Non Foreign films that are pretty good, um...

I liked both Freeways 1 and 2 confessions of a trick baby, Night at the Golden Eagle, Lucky Number Slevin(I was surprised at how good this one was), Life Aquatic... I tend to like indie style movies that are a little off center...



Check out the French film "Irreversable".  It fucking rocks......
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