Funny article

[Deborah]

She's not a "kid".
She's an adult, who chose to present herself as an Addictions Counselor.

Hopefully she'll come to her senses and find work with an ethical employer before her reputation is really tarnished.

[Deborah]

I certainly by no means intended racism in my comments, I myself have some native american ancestry from my mothers side.

Wasn't implying that you were, consciously anyway. Anyone who puts forth the notion that they are genetically predisposed to alcoholism is perpetuating racial oppression. Just as those who use the study "proving" blacks were intellectually inferior to support their racism, even though it was later refuted.

So, is it possible that genetics play a role? I think so. I think stating that it in no way plays a role is erroneous and judgemental.

No judgement. No blame. Because one doesn't subscribe to the "genetic predisposition" bullshit, doesn't imply they are "blaming the victim". It is what it is and I believe decades of economic and racial oppression is the predisposing factor.
They're doing the best they can, and it's my hope that they some how, some way, they are able to find some peace and economic stability.

There is a higher percentage of blacks in prison for non-violent drug offenses. Think they're more 'genetically predisposed' to substance abuse? Are Europeans 'genetically predisposed' to be racists? As the economic oppressors, they do have the means to buy a "get out of jail free" card as needed.

[Anonymous]

"All Peer Group Counselors are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher." (directly from the HLA website)

it appears to me that the biggest thing wrong with this is that hla itself states ON IT'S WEBSITE the above...and doesn't it say that this lovely bride holds a bs and is WORKING on her masters?

hmmm...just another hla lie!

also...regarding the genetics thing...just a thought...could be enviroment...if all you see is mom and dad drinking, drugging or over eating...and feeding you all of the same things that they do or eat wouldn't that be a better pre-cursor to what you will end up like other that what your genes say??  sure heart disease, hypertension, diabetes are all genetic...but mostly it is your environment tht is going to determine if those genetics are going to play an even larger part in what you are going to end up doing...think about it before you bash it...yes, genetics plays a part in true diseases, but a lot of those "genetic predispositions" like alcholosim and obesity have to do with your surroundings growing up...NOT ALL so don't come on saying "well, i have a friend whose parents were the pinicles of society, never drank or overate but their kids are all drug addicts and/or obese"...yes, happens...but also in those cases...look at what goes on behing closed doors...abuse of any kind? bullying, etc...lots of reasons besides the "genetice" one...even in the "best of families"
so whatever...take it for what it is...

[Anonymous]

One other thing that is occuring on a higher level on the reservation is Diabetes. My mom says a very large percentage have it, I believe the type II version. We have discussed this particular issue because type I diabetes runs in my family (my father, 3 cousins, my great grandfather, etc) and 2 people had type II. theres been a debate about whether Type I is genetic, which, I feel it is. About type II though, that is usually caused by diet, being overweight, etc. But this is the type that the Cherokee have in a larger percentage. So, for this item, I was thinking maybe it was their diet, but, I found a study while looking up the alcoholism study yesterday that stated that the same genes that can cause alcohol to not be processed well is the same gene they feel that can cause type II diabetes. It has to do with sugar metabalization. I think its a possibility, but then again type II is a preventable disease so I think it just maybe makes you more of a candidate, not necesarily a definate thing that you would get diabetes. And just because you may have a genetic possibility to become more of an alcoholic (the idea that some dispute), doesnt mean you would have to become one, just makes you slightly more prone to it if you choose to drink. JMHO.

[Troll Control]

MODS: This is The Who posting more spam! Let's give this asshole the final heave-ho, shall we? Please DELETE The Who's recent anonymous postings and ban his new IP address.

Agreed!! Why dont we go one better and delete any post that disagrees with our beliefs (spam), especially if they dont have the guts to get a log-in (like the guest above mentioned).  Give them one warning and then ban their friggin asses after 3 posts and boot their butts into never-never land, if they dont change their position.  
This will clear the board for the rest of us who know whats good for everyone else.

Who, shut the fuck up.  You were banned because you derail every thread with spam (repeated postings) and because you lie and edit posts afterwards (and then deny it) and lie about the mods altering or deleting your posts.

It just goes to show what a sick compulsion you have.  You have such a strong need to continue to hang out here because you have been rejected at every turn in the real world - your kid, your wife, your employer, etc.  This is your idea of a "power play" - "I'll post here even if I have been BANNED!  THEY can't tell ME what to do!"

Who, you are a pathetic, craven loser.  "Get a life!"  "Get over it!"  And go away.

[Anonymous]

I don't know how I didn't figure out immediately that this is The Who.  I should have known from the start, based on the ridiculous logic paired with that seemingly calm, reasonable tone.

Now I'm laughing, because at one point in this discussion, Who, you said that posts like mine damage the credibility of everyone this site.  That has got to be the biggest joke ever, coming from someone whose credibility was been completely destroyed.  You have been proven multiple times to be a liar and program supporter, even though your kid didn't attend HLA and you have no reason to be so interested in the place.

And please, get off your high horse about re-posting the bridal announcement.  I posted it, it was public information, and if people didn't want the public to see it and possibly analyze it, then they shouldn't have put it in the paper in the first place.

I will say this: maybe she had some previous experience working with addicted people. If so, that's great.

Thank you.  I think it is important not to pre judge people.  

They condone those actions by continuing to work there.

There are people who volunteer during war time to help the wounded and they are totally against the war.  Doesn’t mean they should be humiliated for their choice.  They feel they can help and make a difference in another person’s life, even in bad situations.  
Give it some thought next time is all I ask.

I notice you addressed only the parts of my last post that you wanted to address.  How typical.  I will assume that since you didn't address the other parts of my post, that you finally agree with what I said originally - and if you've forgotten what that is, let me remind you:

HLA EMPLOYS UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE AND LIES ABOUT IT TO THE PARENTS.

[Anonymous]

One other thing that is occuring on a higher level on the reservation is Diabetes. My mom says a very large percentage have it, I believe the type II version. We have discussed this particular issue because type I diabetes runs in my family (my father, 3 cousins, my great grandfather, etc) and 2 people had type II. theres been a debate about whether Type I is genetic, which, I feel it is. About type II though, that is usually caused by diet, being overweight, etc. But this is the type that the Cherokee have in a larger percentage. So, for this item, I was thinking maybe it was their diet, but, I found a study while looking up the alcoholism study yesterday that stated that the same genes that can cause alcohol to not be processed well is the same gene they feel that can cause type II diabetes. It has to do with sugar metabalization. I think its a possibility, but then again type II is a preventable disease so I think it just maybe makes you more of a candidate, not necesarily a definate thing that you would get diabetes. And just because you may have a genetic possibility to become more of an alcoholic (the idea that some dispute), doesnt mean you would have to become one, just makes you slightly more prone to it if you choose to drink. JMHO.

makes sense, becouse alchohol is oxidized into acetaldehyde, which is a type of sugar [ i think].
read this, if you paid attention in chem class:
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/ ... olmet.html
(on the bottom of that webpage)
"
A central role in the toxicity of alcohol may be played by acetaldehyde itself. Although the liver converts acetaldehyde into acetic acid, it reaches a saturation point where some of it escapes into the blood stream. The accumulated acetaldehyde exerts its toxic effects by inhibiting the mitochondria reactions and functions. The alcoholic is a victim of a vicious circle; a high acetaldehyde level impairs mitochondria function, metabolism of acetaldehyde to acetic acid decreases, more acetaldehyde accumulates, and causes further liver damage--hepatitis and cirrhosis.
Recent investigations have suggested that acetaldehyde may be responsible for the development of alcohol addiction. Acetaldehyde in the brain may inhibit enzymes designed to convert certain nerve transmitters from aldehydes to acids. The nerve transmitters that accumulate may then react with the acetaldehyde to form compounds which are startlingly similar to certain morphine-type compounds"

i agree with deborah that the alchoholism among NA's was primarily a product of "white man's oppression", along with learned behaviors. But i am positive that there is also a biological ink.

[TheWho]

I posted it, it was public information, and if people didn't want the public to see it and possibly analyze it, then they shouldn't have put it in the paper in the first place.

What you did was wrong and in bad taste.  You shouldn’t disrespect other people you don’t know.  The announcement was made public and was intended to share their celebration of marriage.  

HLA EMPLOYS UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE AND LIES ABOUT IT TO THE PARENTS.

We know, you have exposed them, you have all the bridal announcements, on back up disc, as proof.  Your source of information has amazed us parents.  Imagine if the word gets out and prospective parents find out that HLA is hiring counselors with degrees in Psychology and others with double majors.  
HLA should pray the cook doesn’t get married and expose to the world that he has a background in nutrition.  That would open a whole new level of questions… is he certified by the state?  If he isn’t we should expose them and shut the school down?
 ::hatter::

[Deborah]

Yeh, if they'd return to their traditional diet they'd probably be fine.

Diabetes was not always a concern for the Pimas.  It has only been in the years that followed World War II that the Pimas health has been deteriorating (Marchland 2).  In the past sixty years diabetes has been the biggest killer of the Pima people (Marchland 1).  Coincidently, it has been these same sixty years that the Pimas have adopted a more Western way of life.  It can be argued that without the influence of the outside world, the Pimas would not be suffering from diabetes.

According to Ravussin, American farmers diverted the water supply of the Pimas, and they could no longer grow their crops (Marchland 1).   It was a terrible time for the Pimas.  They suffered from starvation and poverty.  They were malnourished and instead of their healthy diet, they began to eat U.S. government rations that consisted of high quantities of sugar, lard and white flour (Marchland 1).  

Mercola offers information suggesting diet specifications and exercise advice.  In the week of May 19, 2001, Mercola warns his readers “not to eat grains” (Mercola, 2).  This is the type of information that can make a difference for someone who is unaware of how his or her diet affects them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz5RAHJLG5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9yKjJVqHyc

The typical Arizona Pima spends twenty-seven hours less a week doing physical activity than the Mexican Pimas (Sevilla 2).  With the amount of exercise the Mexican Pimas get, they are in much better shape than the Arizona Pimas (Sevilla 2).  Obesity is not a problem for them and because of that, diabetes isn’t a problem for them either.  The comparison between the two tribes show that even though the genetic makeup is the same for both, it is the lifestyle that makes the difference.  Even though the Mexican Pimas are more physically active, they eat the same foods as the Arizona Pimas. So if the Arizona Pimas eat less fat and exercise more than they do, they should be able to enjoy the same health as their Mexican brothers.  So couldn’t a change in lifestyles be the answer to the Arizona Pimas’ strife?  The answer is yes. So couldn’t a change in lifestyles be the answer to the Arizona Pimas’ strife?  The answer is yes.  The only problem is that once a person has grown accustomed to modern amenities, the amenities are almost impossible to give up.  It is also very difficult to give up foods that are fast and delicious, no matter how bad they are for you.
http://tinyurl.com/2kvzzy
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/p ... besity.htm

Just as the study with Mexican Americans who were experiencing a high incidence of gallballder issues. They ate their traditional diet (corn, beans, cheese made the traditional way, squash, etc) and saw drastic improvement.

Still looking for the gene that compells people to drink alcohol in excess....

[Troll Control]

Please re-ban TheWho.  He has infected this thread.

Massachusetts is so boring that you have to obsess over Fornits again?  Take a hike.

[Anonymous]

What you did was wrong and in bad taste.  You shouldn’t disrespect other people you don’t know.  

In your opinion.  You shouldn't tell people you don't know what to do.

HLA EMPLOYS UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE AND LIES ABOUT IT TO THE PARENTS.

Imagine if the word gets out and prospective parents find out that HLA is hiring counselors with degrees in Psychology and others with double majors.  

Doesn't HLA advertise that all counselors hold Masters'?  MOst of the counselors I've seen hold a Bachelor's or less.  Is that not false advertising?

[Anonymous]

The opinion which you share with us here and the post you copied and pasted (I didnt read EVERY line of each link, sorry I dont have that kind of time on my hands),

Then don't fucking comment on it if you're not going to even bother to fucking READ it.
:roll:

I am not trying to say that these studies are infallible. Neither is the other side of the debate infallible. But, leave it open to the possibility that genetics play a role in whether or not a person has a predisposition to become an alcoholic.

READING FOR COMPREHENSION!!!!!! ::bangin::  ::bangin::

Yes, genetics may predispose someone to have adverse reactions to alcohol or even to become a full-blown alcoholic.  Predispositions.  That doesn't mean they're genetically doomed to be alcoholics.  

 

I am not convinced that some alcoholics are just lazy and could put down the bottle if they wanted to. Some would love nothing better, but, lack the ability to whether it be psychological or biological.

 

It's a matter of when it becomes important enough to the person, not laziness or lack of willpower.  When someone who has a drinking problem has truly had enough, they'll stop.




http://www.peele.net/blog/index.html#070706

July 6, 2007
You Know That Gene for Alcoholism?

Nearly two decades ago, Ken Blum said he had found the gene for alcoholism. His claim to have discovered the source of all addiction proved to be premature. But people have been hoping there is a gene for alcoholism and/or addiction ever since.

There isn’t. In Addiction-Proof Your Child, I note: “One surprising result of studying the genome is the discovery of just how little we can tell based on particular genes. Most of the DNA on human chromosomes is not organized into specific genes. Much of this DNA directs the pace at which other genes express themselves. . . . For these reasons and others, simple relationships between individual genes – or even groups of genes – and specific traits are rare.”

The Sunday New York Times wrote: “Last month, a consortium of scientists . . . .found that the human genome might not be a ‘tidy collection of independent genes’ after all, with each sequence of DNA linked to a single function. . . . Instead, genes appear to operate in a complex network, and interact and overlap with one another and with other components in ways not yet fully understood. . . . [T]hese findings will challenge scientists ‘to rethink some long-held views about what genes are and what they do.’”

Stanton Peele

[Anonymous]

When did he get banned?  Wow.  He must have really spammed it.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone else get banned.  Link to a discussion about it?

[TheWho]

When did he get banned?  Wow.  He must have really spammed it.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone else get banned.  Link to a discussion about it?

"Failure to conform" was the cause of the banning.

Flooding was what was written down as the official record.
 ::hatter::

[Anonymous]

What I did was wrong and in bad taste?  Mr. Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle.  You are the epitomy of bad taste, Who.  Seriously.  You couldn't parent your own child and sent her off to an RTC which, by all accounts, screwed her up worse than she was to being with.   Speaking of which, shouldn't you be defending programs over on the ASR thread?

Your ability to take a legitimate thread and try to twist it around to distort facts and distract is amazing.  You really don't give up, do you?

And yes, if the person in charge of nutrition was the subject of something PUBLIC THAT ANYONE CAN READ (please, get that fact through your thick skull), then I would hope that people who know what kind of institution HLA is would question that person's credentials.  Considering HLA's track record, that would be the smart thing to do.

"Imagine if the word gets out and prospective parents find out that HLA is hiring counselors with degrees in Psychology and others with double majors."  Your own words.  Yet HLA states that they only hired counselors with MASTER'S DEGREES.  What is so hard for you to understand here?

I posted it, it was public information, and if people didn't want the public to see it and possibly analyze it, then they shouldn't have put it in the paper in the first place.

What you did was wrong and in bad taste.  You shouldn’t disrespect other people you don’t know.  The announcement was made public and was intended to share their celebration of marriage.  

HLA EMPLOYS UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE AND LIES ABOUT IT TO THE PARENTS.

We know, you have exposed them, you have all the bridal announcements, on back up disc, as proof.  Your source of information has amazed us parents.  Imagine if the word gets out and prospective parents find out that HLA is hiring counselors with degrees in Psychology and others with double majors.  
HLA should pray the cook doesn’t get married and expose to the world that he has a background in nutrition.  That would open a whole new level of questions… is he certified by the state?  If he isn’t we should expose them and shut the school down?
 ::hatter::