Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch

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Anonymous:
Dear Sister,
I just had to "weigh" in on this discussion.  I am a parent of a son similar to your brother.  Thankfully, I came to my senses rather rapidly and pulled him out of a WWASP school after 2 1/2 months.  These "schools" aren't for anyone.  In fact, my son's problems were way worse after his involvement with WWASP.  Why do we as a society believe that "punnishing" someone will "cure" them?  There are reasonable, and viable, solutions for troubled kids, within the U.S., that do not include torture, pain and humiliation.  Granted, I was sucked in by WWASP, and bought into their bull for a short time, but I came to my senses after attending the first seminar.  In fact, their seminars are very similar to a form of "mind control" which was in existence during the 70's called EST.  As soon as I found out what they were really about I pulled my son - thank God!  He is now in a school was he is given the respect and dignity that he deserves as a human being.  In fact, he is doing great - straight A student, and sober for over 6 months.  So you see, there are other alternatives.  It doesn't have to be so extreme.  Why won't you at least consider the possiblity that WWASP is a poorly run, destructive force in the lives of troubled children?  Just consider the possiblities...

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2003-05-24 18:59:00, Janet wrote:

 Maybe he would have been the 1% who would have ODed or would have become a vegetable from drug use. If that was his destiny, Dundee probably won"t help. Not everyone comes out of a WWASP "school" cured! What makes WWASP such a "success" is that kids have a way of growing up all by themselves. WWASP takes the credit for something that would have happened anyway.
--- End quote ---


Thanks, Janet. I just wanted to comment on this, though (so contraryy! eh?)

More like .001% of people who try illicit drugs or legal drugs illicitly (underaged drinking, filching pills, etc) ever wind up seriously overdosing. Most people never get addicted to the point where they can't beat it. These people, about half of the adult American population, never come into contact with law enforcement or other authorities as a result of their drug use; they work, love, marry, divorce, watch football and go skiing and don't look anything like a homeless psychzophrenic or that racoon eyed gal on the Ad Council commercials.

What makes WWASP so 'successful' is that they have no problem with lying a whole lot AND that brainwashing actually does work. It's not the least bit therapeutic, mind you, but it is extremely effective.

I remember being asked to give my statement in a criminal investigation into Straight, Inc. I could have described how I had been thrown on a cold concrete floor and held in a 4 point without a pillow for a couple of hours for refusing to apologize to Group for having run away to my sister's home in another state. I could have described, without exageration, what happened to another kid who was not allowed to sit or sleep or use a bathroom for at least 2 1/2 days while other boys yelled at him, slapped and shoved him and also held him on the floor.

I chose not to do that. At the time, I didn't think that he or I had any valid complaint. After all, I did rebel and refuse to do what I was told. Aren't kids supposed to do what they're told? And the other kid had run away and, when they 'restrained' him, he faught back (before or after his rib broke, I don't know).

It took some time to sort it all out and understand just how F'd UP it all was. That's why no talking to anyone. That's why no reeding, no adequate sleep, severe punishment on the slightest pretense and pervasive fear and hostility like a heavy fog. Not only can you get a person to say what you want them to under these conditions, you can actually get them to believe, for a time, whatever you want them to. That's how cults work. The prison without walls.

Those letters home that some parents point to as proof that the kid is alright with what's going on are not the result of a well thought out, reasoned thought process; "If I say this, then this good thing will happen or if I say that than this bad thing will happen". It's more like, every minute, wakeing or not, you're constantly walking a tight rope to keep from getting in trouble and to try and get closer to getting out. But it becomes so all consuming that, after awhile, you actually forget what you really believe and have a hard time seperating your own thoughts from the Group identity.
 


Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.

--Abbie Hoffman
--- End quote ---

Anonymous:
::noway:: Sister, you said:

"...but if it saves one kid's life, isn't it worth it?"    


.........NO!.......

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2003-05-25 09:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yes I really believe that drugs are THAT big of a problem in our society. I you are wrong statistically on population drug use since the 70s. In all the criminology, psychology, and law classes I have taken at the university, they have all gone into great detail showing that drug use has steadily increased in our society. In addition, to increased number or users they are used more often and are about 5 times stronger than those used in the 70s. Yes it is a big problem, anyone who would drugs arent, is either uninformed, uneducated or strictly naive when it comes to drugs. Its a harsh reality when its someone you love.

--- End quote ---

So then, what? Go ahead and kill the kid cause he was going to die anyway? His brain could use a little washing? Look up from those books for a while and look at what is going on around you. Drug use has possibly risen, some, but not a whole lot. But you're missing the point. All the fear mongering propaganda about how certainly destructive certain drugs are just doesn't mesh with the fact that most people who use those drugs as kids simply do not grow up to be skidrow junkies.

More to the point. Most of the kids I went to school with and who used licit and illicit drugs recreationally went on to college and/or happy marraiges and careers and are living decent lives now. Not so for most of the people I met in Straight. Even though most of them were your typical spoiled rich kid, just like the ones I knew before. The Program messed them up profoundly.


--- Quote ---
   If our survival insticts as humans are so much stronger than I believe why has the war on drugs been ever increasing. Why does our government spend billions on the drug war, and billions on rehabiliation centers, which by the way have a small percentage of succesful results.

--- End quote ---

Good question. The definition of insanity, being what it is. Simple answer? Because you're still buying into it, sucker! You should know, if you're planning a career in law enforcement, that prohibition does not work. It never has and never will. You'll be asked to take an oath to uphold the constitution and the laws of your jurisdiction. Then you'll be immediately ordered to break your oath.

Drug abuse is a personal, spirital, possibly medical problem. It is not a crime as defined by out Constitution, which engenders personal responsibility, liberty and government protection ONLY from crime by others to a nonconsenting other.


--- Quote ---Most addicts have relapsed within 3 years of a rehab center. People with a drug addiction at a young age have an 80% chance of having the same problem and worse as an adult. Statistically that doesnt give my brother or any other troubled kid that much of a chance.

--- End quote ---

So.... then why are we torturing him? And how, exactly, do you think torturing him now will make his life any easier later?

Please think about exactly why you believe WWASP is effective. The only basis I know for those claims are their own advertising and anecdotal stories of recent graduates. Ask them for long term outcome studies. Not just synopsises or citateions. Take a look, if you can get them to show you (which I doubt), at the actual studies and methodologies. If you're familiar at all with clinical research, you'll crap when you see what they're hawking as legitimate research.

Honey, I know you're a true believer and you love your brother. But, if the editorial board of the NY Times and (a few years back) the Washington Post can be sumarily duped, so can you. You're being taken for a ride.


--- Quote --- I do not agree with demoralizing people but how sure are we that these accusations are true.

--- End quote ---

You just couldn't make this stuff up. One after another after another kid, and often parents, keep coming back with similar stories. Hell, even the parts that the Program supporters don't deny speak volumes to those of us who have been through similar Synanon based programs. You think it's a petty thing to be screamed at, scrutinized, deprived of sleep and, all the while, not allowed to talk to anyone or even smile at your fellow 'students' for a number of months? Just go and try it for yourself.

And remember (asif anyone could forget for a moment) the consequence of failure may well be being made to kneel on a hard surface for a number of hours. Try that for 20 minutes. Right now. Just get down on your knees on a hard floor and try and remain motionless for a full 20 minutes. Can't do it? Then you're being rebellions, sister! A couple of people will come and put you face down while they pull your arms backward up toward your ear till you see things their way and try again.



--- Quote ---Most of these allegations come from students that were there for a short period of time and were unable to finish the program.

--- End quote ---

Not true. That's just what the salesmen told you. Graduates take a little while to come around. Most are somewhat scrambled in the head for awhile. All are fearful of being sent back. But, eventually, just about anyone you ask who's been out for awhile will tell you how it was.

Here's another interesting experiment. Try and get a complete contact list of families who have been out of the program for, say, the last 2 years. You figure they've got, what, about 5k kids at a time so they ought to be able to give you about 10k names, right? You'll find that they won't give. The last thing in the world they want is for former students to get together and compare notes. They have no alumni committee, no reunions, no way of contacting old friends from "school". As a matter of policy, it is frowned upon. Contacting people who left the program is strictly forbidden.

Lady, you're dealing with a cult. Wake up and smell the coffee.


--- Quote ---I know that he was given many opportunites to change with all sorts of professional help but when someone doesnt want to change, no therapists or doctor (which my father is) is going to do that for someone. It is a matter of will and only the individual can have that.

--- End quote ---

There's only one way to change a kid's behavior against their will. Break his will. That's what these programs do. If drug use is so certainly destructive and it's only the rare lucky one who escapes junkiedome, then how do you reconcile the known fact that over half of high school kids use illicit drugs while only a rare few ever come into the kind of trouble that you attribute to drugs?

--- Quote ---
  Oh by the way, after being picked up from Dundee Ranch after 5 weeks, he spoke nothing of abuse. Yes, he wasnt fond of the food but other than that there was minimal expected complaints. He went completly willingly to Ivy Ridge. My brother is no quite one and would have been screaming his head off if he was terrified of another school. While this may not be the school for everyone it is right for others. Thats the parents decision. Im so proud of the success that he has made thus far and I support and love him completely. If these programs can help him, I support them also.

A suppportive sister

  "

--- End quote ---


If my father, a priest and a cop had come into the Program and asked me to my face if I wanted to leave, I would have thought it was a trick and told them no. Years after I got out, my dad asked me why I'd never told him before what had been going on. I was surprised at the question. I told him "Dad, because you would have turned me in." He knew that was true.

The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
-- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803

--- End quote ---


_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American P.O.W. 10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

Majiktrvls:
According to the SLTribune, it is offical that Pani has successfully closed the Dundee Ranch. I cannot get the whole article to link here, an AOL issue, I am told, but go to http://www.sltrib.com and read the article about the findings and final days of this Lichfield retreat for kids.

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