Important~ Re: the 14 yo. boy's death at Aspen's Youth Care

[Pitbull Mom]

I just see too much whining and self pity from some folks, and not enough action. Healing is out there for those who truly want it and are willing to work for it.

I think you will be the spark the lights the fires to change.

This sad pathetic group of survivors needs a strong voice like yours to lead them.

And those are the very posts that bring out the best in us.
we are what they made us, seriously.

Fuck you, ya bagheaded moron.  Internet tough guy hiding behind a keyboard.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

I'm guessing that's not the best you have in you. You are the sum of all of your past experiences, good and bad. You are what you make yourself.

[Anne Bonney]

No, it's not 'the best', it IS a product of what happened to me.  Mom, you're gonna have to understand that, while we feel for you, we have a sincere right to our anger.  Sometimes that comes out at what may seem inappropriate to you.  Not unlike veterans or ER docs who use a somewhat offbeat and what could be considered twisted sense of humor.  In the case of vets you throw some PTSD into the mix, like most of us have been dx with and you get some pretty raw emotion.

I don't speak or behave the way in the rest of my life the way I do here.  That's the beauty of Fornits.  I can come here and be a complete asshole and most people get it.  If they don't, fuck 'em.

Sorry, I've dealt with so much bullshit from people that think like this (Stepcraft mainly) that I could scream.  Fornits allows me that luxury.

[Anonymous]

The only thing that will stop this bloodbath is a law preventing parents from sending children to the death pit that is Utah.
No child-renditions, even if they brainwash the child to think it's a good idea.
The kids, the parents- none of them seem to know any better, so a law is necessary, then so be it. It's illegal to smoke a cigarette in a restaurant, make it illegal to send children to Utah.
Otherwise fornits fora will exist for decades to come, every few months a new parent who just discovered the evil industry after their child died or injured seriously. See a pattern? This must be cut off at the source, which is the customers who fund this entire industry. Make the transaction illegal.

[hanzomon4]

Part of the problem also is parents not getting the support they need for kids with real problems. The parents who don't have kids with problems but send them away anyway are just sad, but some parents do have kids with problems they can't handle. Programs ain't the answer but the lack of an answer adds to the problem with programs

[Anne Bonney]

Part of the problem also is parents not getting the support they need for kids with real problems. The parents who don't have kids with problems but send them away anyway are just sad, but some parents do have kids with problems they can't handle. Programs ain't the answer but the lack of an answer adds to the problem with programs

I agree, but almost hesitate to say so.  I think the is a segment of the population that truly needs some kind of help.  I think that is reserved for those who have a true, medical problem and that number is pretty miniscule.  This 'behavior modification' or 'behavior management' crap is nuts.  The vast, and I mean VAST majority of teens have no need for a program.  Some kids aren't going to turn out the way you'd like.  Some will take more time than you'd like to grow up.  Yes, it's all scary, but it's no goddamn different than what we and our parents went through.  There are different and yes more prevalent dangers, but if you look at the true stats, teen pregnancies are down, drug use is down or at a later date.  There just isn't the doomsday scenario that program people are trying to make people believe there is.

[Anonymous]

Part of the problem also is parents not getting the support they need for kids with real problems. The parents who don't have kids with problems but send them away anyway are just sad, but some parents do have kids with problems they can't handle. Programs ain't the answer but the lack of an answer adds to the problem with programs

Exactly why private programs should be illegal. Then these parents can lobby their cities to expand their existing community treatment options instead of outsourcing it.

[hanzomon4]

Part of the problem also is parents not getting the support they need for kids with real problems. The parents who don't have kids with problems but send them away anyway are just sad, but some parents do have kids with problems they can't handle. Programs ain't the answer but the lack of an answer adds to the problem with programs

I agree, but almost hesitate to say so.  I think the is a segment of the population that truly needs some kind of help.  I think that is reserved for those who have a true, medical problem and that number is pretty miniscule.  This 'behavior modification' or 'behavior management' crap is nuts.  The vast, and I mean VAST majority of teens have no need for a program.  Some kids aren't going to turn out the way you'd like.  Some will take more time than you'd like to grow up.  Yes, it's all scary, but it's no goddamn different than what we and our parents went through.  There are different and yes more prevalent dangers, but if you look at the true stats, teen pregnancies are down, drug use is down or at a later date.  There just isn't the doomsday scenario that program people are trying to make people believe there is.

I agree, these days kids get sent away for being over weight, having sex, or having a mind of their own. Least restrictive setting seems to fall on deaf ears these days.

I just wanted to make it clear that some kids/parents do need help that they don't get and turn to programs, where they still don't get help.

[Anonymous]

Many kids are sent away because their parents get divorced and the parents are bitter and nobody wants the kid, they have enough money to keep them stuffed away, neatly for as many years needed until they turn 18. These upper class child traffickers have somehow morphed this into a socially acceptable activity in the pretense of finishing school, boarding school and other absurd names for private holding camps, gulags or prisons. These are more accurate terms. Prisons for the children of broken families, children who asked too many questions, or had the misfortune of a step-parent who didn't like them. Erased from the family. Yes, it's that easy.

If one parent did this it would be a criminal act. If a group did this it would be a cult. If a large portion of society does this, it's acceptable. Funny how that works.

Keep going to your support group meetings program parents, try to smash common sense reality back into your pea brains for another week and try to hold back that nagging thought that yes, you are a piece of shit.

[Deborah]

Pitbull Mom wrote

I just don't think his death was program related in exactly the same way some other deaths were, in other words, the "programming" did not cause his bowel infarction, as in Michelle and others' deaths, and probably some of you as well.

Are you certain? I did a brief search, will do more later. Infarction is extremely uncommon in young people, more a condition of the elderly. A total blockage due to constipation is a common cause of infarction.

Have you researched the drugs he was taking to determine if they cause constipation.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... X-6-43.pdf

What was the nature of his diet? Enough fiber- fresh fruit and veggies?
Was he provided enough water? Was wilderness or extensive outside time in extreme heat without adequate water, part of his 'treatment'?
Ian August's drugs certainly played a part in his death, but the program was also negligent in providing him adequate water.
Was he ever denied access to the bathroom when nature called? Yeh, it happens.

If your voice is being heard so well, why isn't this headline news? why is it so hard for parents to get valid information? Why can't I even find a state by state database of the program deaths? There will be one soon.

I have an extensive list of deaths in Excel dating back to 1980. I'd be happy to share that with you. PM me if you're interested. My list contains more names than Barbe's list, but I'm certain it's not conclusive. Many accounts are never published in the media.

[Anonymous]

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html

Explains why it is impossible to come up with an accurate list of children who have died in private facilities.

FYI - this boy is on the memorial.

[Froderik]

Many kids are sent away because their parents get divorced and the parents are bitter and nobody wants the kid, they have enough money to keep them stuffed away, neatly for as many years needed until they turn 18. These upper class child traffickers have somehow morphed this into a socially acceptable activity in the pretense of finishing school, boarding school and other absurd names for private holding camps, gulags or prisons. These are more accurate terms. Prisons for the children of broken families, children who asked too many questions, or had the misfortune of a step-parent who didn't like them. Erased from the family. Yes, it's that easy.

If one parent did this it would be a criminal act. If a group did this it would be a cult. If a large portion of society does this, it's acceptable. Funny how that works.

Keep going to your support group meetings program parents, try to smash common sense reality back into your pea brains for another week and try to hold back that nagging thought that yes, you are a piece of shit.

Good post, my anonymous friend.

[Anonymous]

The only thing that will stop this bloodbath is a law preventing parents from sending children to the death pit that is Utah.
No child-renditions, even if they brainwash the child to think it's a good idea.
The kids, the parents- none of them seem to know any better, so a law is necessary, then so be it. It's illegal to smoke a cigarette in a restaurant, make it illegal to send children to Utah.
Otherwise fornits fora will exist for decades to come, every few months a new parent who just discovered the evil industry after their child died or injured seriously. See a pattern? This must be cut off at the source, which is the customers who fund this entire industry. Make the transaction illegal.

That's sort of where I was coming from with suggesting the constant suing....doesn't it follow that eventually they would become illegal when one law suit afetr the other is won?

[Pitbull Mom]

Part of the problem also is parents not getting the support they need for kids with real problems. The parents who don't have kids with problems but send them away anyway are just sad, but some parents do have kids with problems they can't handle. Programs ain't the answer but the lack of an answer adds to the problem with programs

I agree, but almost hesitate to say so.  I think the is a segment of the population that truly needs some kind of help.  I think that is reserved for those who have a true, medical problem and that number is pretty miniscule.  This 'behavior modification' or 'behavior management' crap is nuts.  The vast, and I mean VAST majority of teens have no need for a program.  Some kids aren't going to turn out the way you'd like.  Some will take more time than you'd like to grow up.  Yes, it's all scary, but it's no goddamn different than what we and our parents went through.  There are different and yes more prevalent dangers, but if you look at the true stats, teen pregnancies are down, drug use is down or at a later date.  There just isn't the doomsday scenario that program people are trying to make people believe there is.

I agree, these days kids get sent away for being over weight, having sex, or having a mind of their own. Least restrictive setting seems to fall on deaf ears these days.

I just wanted to make it clear that some kids/parents do need help that they don't get and turn to programs, where they still don't get help.

This is all true, and now we are getting down to the real issue why so many parents are turning to the teen industry. When one can get past the "parents don't care about their kids" mentality, and look at the underlying issues, then you start to see a pattern. 10 years ago, the teen industry climate was a little different than it is now, thanks to efforts of people like Cathy Sutton, and all the folks who have shared their abuse. 10 years from now, it will hopefully be different, or non-existent.

Having spent years of heartache trying to get a mentally ill kid through the school system in the least restrictive setting, and resisting drug therapy for my kid, I know something about the school system and special ed. Kids are being diagnosed in exploding numbers with attention deficit and autism spectrum disorders. 10 years ago 1 in 10,000 kids was autistic, today it's 1 in 160. either there is some unknown toxin causing this huge explosion of mental health cases, or kids are being overly dx'd to death. the latter I believe, although there are clearly a lot more bonafide cases of autism spectrum disorders these days, and a lot of research $$ is going into this. Too many people do rely on unqualified "experts" for advice about behaviorial issues. Only psychiatrists and specially trained clinical psychologists are qualified to diagnose mental health disorders. I'm so flippin' angry that my son wasn't diagnosed earlier with autism and provided intervention services that would have helped him, I want to kill someone. Another family's son (bully)  is alive only because mine was placed out of home.  Once I got a good diagnosis for my son, and learned about autism, his raging behavior suddenly made total sense to me, yet I still had to remove him temporarily from my home. Sadly he won't ever come home again.

There is an excellent book I wish I'd had 10 years ago - School Success for Kids with Asperger's Syndrome. Psychotherapy is not the answer for these kids. My son's IEP was a joke. Being in Special Ed isolated him even further and lowered his self esteem. Inclusion doesn't work for every kid. There are no long mid to long term hospital facilities in my state for high functioning autism, instead hospitals routinely refer kids to Utah I've contacted UCLA psych hospital where we went, and alerted them about my son's death. Most hospitals will not even admit a child with autism for a 24 hold. I suggest any parents with kids with social skills/communication problems read this book as a starting point. There are many excellent books on ASD's.  My son's death is a tragic example of not only that sad state of the teen industry, but also the community mental health services. it all comes down to $$$.

[Pitbull Mom]

Pitbull Mom wrote

I just don't think his death was program related in exactly the same way some other deaths were, in other words, the "programming" did not cause his bowel infarction, as in Michelle and others' deaths, and probably some of you as well.

Are you certain? I did a brief search, will do more later. Infarction is extremely uncommon in young people, more a condition of the elderly. A total blockage due to constipation is a common cause of infarction.

Have you researched the drugs he was taking to determine if they cause constipation.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... X-6-43.pdf

What was the nature of his diet? Enough fiber- fresh fruit and veggies?
Was he provided enough water? Was wilderness or extensive outside time in extreme heat without adequate water, part of his 'treatment'?
Ian August's drugs certainly played a part in his death, but the program was also negligent in providing him adequate water.
Was he ever denied access to the bathroom when nature called? Yeh, it happens.

If your voice is being heard so well, why isn't this headline news? why is it so hard for parents to get valid information? Why can't I even find a state by state database of the program deaths? There will be one soon.

I have an extensive list of deaths in Excel dating back to 1980. I'd be happy to share that with you. PM me if you're interested. My list contains more names than Barbe's list, but I'm certain it's not conclusive. Many accounts are never published in the media.

Of course I researched the drugs he was on both before and after his death, although I do appreciate your concern.  He was hydrated, he was not constipated, he gained weight at Youth Care and ate well, he was not in a wilderness program, he was in a group home, if he was denied use of the bathroom, he would have just peed in the living room. I know, he did it more than once!  He was home for the full week before his death, so I know for certain he was healthy 5 days before he died. I grilled the coroner, and got opinions from other doctors, including my son's family doctor. I know many of the deaths are related to the treatment/programming, whatever you want to call it, but this was pure medical neglect. Makes it simpler to make them accountable. It also helps that he was never a recreational drug user, and his frequent labs and autopsy bear that out.

I would love to have your list, thank you, you can email it  justiceforbrendan@hotmail.com. I am going to use Barbe's list to get a state by state  listing, I'll combine the 2 lists, and also add info, if given, about ASD's.  These statistics WILL get published in the media. I wil buy full page ads in the LA and NY Times if I have to.

I'm a mom, not a moron. I'm sure some parents might just roll over, but I'm not one of them. PB mom, remember?

They picked the wrong kid to F--- with I assure you

[Deborah]

On wrap around services.
They sent 5 therapist to work with this family until they were stable, then down to 1. This was over the course of several months. Sounds like it might be prohibitively expensive, but they said the cost for this service was significantly cheaper than putting the boy in an RTC.
Found the story:
http://www.nyjournalnews.com/rtc/3part3.htm
(Last in a 3-part series on alternatives to RTCs)

Even with therapists assigned to work with Daniel around-the-clock, and with 5,6,8 there at the same time early on, the cost of his care decreased from as high as $8,890 a month while he was in a residential treatment center to $2,000 to $4,000 when he was at home.

I don't believe it's possible to make lasting changes when the child is isolated and far away from the family. They need to learn to work as unit in their home environment. I would much prefer to see my tax dollars going to wrap-around. The one caveat is they may rely too heavily on psych drugs.