Important~ Re: the 14 yo. boy's death at Aspen's Youth Care

[TheWho]

:roll:
Not this again.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:yVUFwaRBv7EJ:www.caica.org/NEWS%2520DEATHS%2520Peak%25201.htm+Dillon+Peak+14&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us[/url]

http://http://www.autismvox.com/autistic-boy-dies-after-being-improperly-restrained/

[TheWho]

How did you "sort out" the program fatalities, Who?

Our daughter, Erica Harvey, died of heat stroke/dehydration May 27, 2002 at Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy in Nevada, a private-pay wilderness program.  Yet, though her name was on the list you "sorted", her death does not appear as a (negligent) homicide.

I'm sure Erica's not the only convenient omission on your list, Who.

Thanks for the info.  I will add her to the list, if she fits the criteria we are tracking.

[Anonymous]

As he kept hitting my first thought was to swing around and plant my elbow into the side of his head and then just keep hitting.  I proud of the fact that I didn't hit or injure him in any way.

I proud of you too!

I am glad you found new work away from such violent psychopaths.

It must be terrible on your wife and family to have to work that type of job and come home at night.

Things get better, Puck. I was in your situation several years ago and eventually my situation improved.

Keep your head on straight, buckle down and work hard and you will be out of the correction industry in no time.

Don't forget to stay in school, things will get better Puck.

[TheWho]

How did you "sort out" the program fatalities, Who?

Our daughter, Erica Harvey, died of heat stroke/dehydration May 27, 2002 at Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy in Nevada, a private-pay wilderness program.  Yet, though her name was on the list you "sorted", her death does not appear as a (negligent) homicide.

I'm sure Erica's not the only convenient omission on your list, Who.

The data does fit the present matrix and I was curious as to why the data was missing.  As I was researching I found that the original matrix was just tracking homicides and suicides.  I recall being asked to expand the matrix to include other institutions and accidental deaths etc. by a Roberbruce with the thought he would forward me the data to back fill if I would make the changes.  So, anyway, the reason she was not on the list is because we didn’t have the category originally.
NCES tracks suicides and Homicides and that was the original intent was to compare to the NCES data.

I will adjust my matrix and check into the name you gave me and any others people could forward to me.  I apologize for this mistake.

[Anonymous]

How did you "sort out" the program fatalities, Who?

Our daughter, Erica Harvey, died of heat stroke/dehydration May 27, 2002 at Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy in Nevada, a private-pay wilderness program.  Yet, though her name was on the list you "sorted", her death does not appear as a (negligent) homicide.

I'm sure Erica's not the only convenient omission on your list, Who.

The data does fit the present matrix and I was curious as to why the data was missing.  As I was researching I found that the original matrix was just tracking homicides and suicides.  I recall being asked to expand the matrix to include other institutions and accidental deaths etc. by a Roberbruce with the thought he would forward me the data to back fill if I would make the changes.  So, anyway, the reason she was not on the list is because we didn’t have the category originally.
NCES tracks suicides and Homicides and that was the original intent was to compare to the NCES data.

I will adjust my matrix and check into the name you gave me and any others people could forward to me.  I apologize for this mistake.

Great!  :roll:

Just what we need.  Some programs shill playing with stats.  Why are you still here?  Don't you have a daughter you should be repairing your relationship with?  Or is she still not speaking to you?

[Anonymous]

/r/ screaming gorilla please.

TheWho can't bear to see one of his former employees get mauled and maybe start coughing up some real info, so he needs to resort to this shit.

Hey Puck, if you're at all real,

NAME SOME FUCKING NAMES.

GIVE SOME REAL TESTIMONY TO THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE.

Trying to justify yourself on Fornits is like Saddam Hussein trying to justify himself in front of a war crimes court. It ain't going to happen! You really want to help, quit talking about yourself and all this hopeless self-justification crap and start talking details about what went on in there.

[exhausted]

I can't see where he's tried to justify himelf, hes just bringing in another angle on how the system works (or doesn't)

didn't you all just hate it when Struggling Teens would only listen to one side of the story? What makes this any different all the time no-one will open their minds to everyone's view of what happens.

[Pitbull Mom]

There is no such thing as "sufficient visability" in Utah. The licensing suspension would not even have been newsworthy had it not been blatantly pointed out to the media by yours truly.

And shouldn't the parents of the other kids be alerted at least that the license of the facility where they have entrusted the safety and medical care of their children is under review for negligence?

I think what is meant is there are many people involved at this point and the on-call nurse is going to be called for every kid who sneezes until they figure out what went wrong.  So as far as the probability of a repeat of this occurring during this period of change, it is virtually nil.  They are trying to figure out if and where the procedure failed and how they can prevent this from happening in the future.  

Sometimes they hire an independent agency to review the procedures (as a second pair of eyes) to see what they find and get recommendations from them.

As far as notifying the parents, this wouldn’t be warranted at this point because their kids are probably safer now then when they were a few weeks ago.  If you own a restaurant and someone gets food poisoning you don’t hang a sign in your window alerting people to what occurred.  You quickly resolve the issue, put corrections in place so that it doesn’t happen again.

If it were an epidemic of some sort then I would agree that the customers (or parents in this case) should be notified and alerted to the situation.

There are not "many people" involded at this point. That is a joke. There is 1 licensing official looking at the police report, they don't even go in and do their own "investigation".  They check that the licenses are current, review the police report and the coronor's report, and that the people on staff when the death occurred actually passed their background checks. There is NO oversight. There is no "indepedent agency".  The whole thing is a frickin' joke. NO ONE REALLY CARES. The licensing agencies are just as negligent as the staff and the administration for knowing that medical neglect happens and not putting the proper safeguards in place, and holding the programs liable, even after multiple deaths.

"They are trying to figure out if and where the procedure failed" - If and Where? give me a break. A boy died. There is no if and where. They didn't follow procedure. They didn't pick up the phone and call their own medical personnel.  He did not just have flu symptoms. He was VIOLENTLY and PAINFULLY ill. They turned their back on a sick, helpless kid.  Period. There's your if and where.

Your little restaurant analogy/food poisoning scenario is not comparable to the death of a child who was not believed.   If I was the parent of one of the kids still at Youth Care, I would want to know exactly what happened, and who is being investigated for what,  so I could decide for myself if I wanted to leave my child there. If every program had to close down whenever a child died, they might get it that they are responsible for their behavior and the safety of their kids. If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be doing business.

[TheWho]

There is no "indepedent agency".

We don’t know that.  Business typically hire out to other business (independent agency) to get a second opinion.  See if they can assist in rewriting the procedure or give them counsel or advice on what they do etc. which could help them in the future and eliminate this from happening again.

"They are trying to figure out if and where the procedure failed" - If and Where? give me a break

What was meant by that is the break down could have been that the procedure was crystal clear and if followed correctly would have prompted the staff to call the on-call nurse.  The other possibility is that the procedure was faulty and did not indicate a call to the on-call nurse was needed.  Whether the staff should have known better doesn’t matter, if the procedure didn’t specify what to do then the school is 100% libel.  If it was specified then the staff is partially libel etc.  So these questions need to be asked (and answered)

If I was the parent of one of the kids still at Youth Care, I would want to know exactly what happened…

I agree with this statement, from a parents perspective.  But from a business perspective it doesn’t make any sense.  No other business in the world does this:

If you walk thru a hospital lobby you will not see notices of the patients who died that day and what the cause was, who was to blame.  They don’t notify you the day before surgery to tell you 3 people died the day before for the exact same operation you are scheduled for.

If you walk into a car dealership you will not see pictures of car accidents and statistics of people who die of faulty breaks, tires etc.

I have yet to be in a restaurant and see any reference to mad cow disease or the number of people who die each year from restaurant food on the menu or in view of the patrons.

The agencies are in place to take care of this.   or are they?   Hmmmm....

[Anonymous]

Jesus fucking Christ Who, your analogies are as sickening as ever.

In a hospital, the staff is legally, morally, and ethically obligated to inform patients of the risks. Period! If the operation is inherently risky then that will be explained in advance. If it's not, and people are dying anyway, then it's time for investigations and lawsuits.

And don't give us crap about the "proper procedure". The "proper procedure" can be anything Aspen wants it to be. They can write whatever fiction they want and claim it as the procedure, when in reality their staff is told to do things entirely differently. It's an old, old game.

Here's another, more apt analogy: Your mildly retarded kid's private school teacher locks him in a closet and ignores his screaming when he cuts himself in an artery. By the time she unlocks the door the kid is long dead. And the other kids apparently shouldn't be informed because hey, it's a business!

It's nice to know that despite the rampant brutality of Anonymous, your posts are many times worse.

[Pitbull Mom]

There is no "indepedent agency".

We don’t know that. Business typically hire out to other business (independent agency) to get a second opinion.  See if they can assist in rewriting the procedure or give them counsel or advice on what they do etc. which could help them in the future and eliminate this from happening again.

Yes we do know that there is no "independent agency".  I called licensing directly and asked the person in charge of the case.

[TheWho]

Yes we do know that there is no "independent agency". I called licensing directly and asked the person in charge of the case.

Actually , you don’t know.  Licensing doesn’t know diddly, they focus on the checks and balances.  They determine if you are meeting requirements or not and can make recommendations.  They do have latitude but they don’t know if Aspen has engaged another company to review their procedures (I guarantee they have and are presently being rewritten, if not done and implemented).  In fact, corporate wouldn’t want licensing to know in case it turned out they were not in compliance.  This would give them time, from a legal standpoint, to get their ducks in a row and rewrite the procedure and get the new one in place ASAP.
As far as whether the existing procedure is adequate, time will tell.  If the agencies do their job the information should surface and root cause will be determined which will, in turn, allow for corrective action to take place.

[Anonymous]

Yes we do know that there is no "independent agency". I called licensing directly and asked the person in charge of the case.

Actually , you don’t know.  Licensing doesn’t know diddly, they focus on the checks and balances.  They determine if you are meeting requirements or not and can make recommendations.  They do have latitude but they don’t know if Aspen has engaged another company to review their procedures (I guarantee they have and are presently being rewritten, if not done and implemented).  In fact, corporate wouldn’t want licensing to know in case it turned out they were not in compliance.  This would give them time, from a legal standpoint, to get their ducks in a row and rewrite the procedure and get the new one in place ASAP.
As far as whether the existing procedure is adequate, time will tell.  If the agencies do their job the information should surface and root cause will be determined which will, in turn, allow for corrective action to take place.

Fuck off you moronic piece of shit!!  



WHO IS A PROGRAM SHILL WHOSE PURPOSE IS TO DISTRACT AND DEFLECT FROM THE REAL ISSUES.


 ::troll::  ::troll::  ::troll::




Read this again Who.   Whoever wrote it was dead on.

Jesus fucking Christ Who, your analogies are as sickening as ever.

In a hospital, the staff is legally, morally, and ethically obligated to inform patients of the risks. Period! If the operation is inherently risky then that will be explained in advance. If it's not, and people are dying anyway, then it's time for investigations and lawsuits.

And don't give us crap about the "proper procedure". The "proper procedure" can be anything Aspen wants it to be. They can write whatever fiction they want and claim it as the procedure, when in reality their staff is told to do things entirely differently. It's an old, old game.

Here's another, more apt analogy: Your mildly retarded kid's private school teacher locks him in a closet and ignores his screaming when he cuts himself in an artery. By the time she unlocks the door the kid is long dead. And the other kids apparently shouldn't be informed because hey, it's a business!

It's nice to know that despite the rampant brutality of Anonymous, your posts are many times worse.

[Froderik]

I can't see where he's tried to justify himelf, hes just bringing in another angle on how the system works (or doesn't)

didn't you all just hate it when Struggling Teens would only listen to one side of the story? What makes this any different all the time no-one will open their minds to everyone's view of what happens.

It seems there was a question of accountablility (posed in the guest's post) concerning this Puck dude.... or was it TheWho? W/e..

[TheWho]

WHO IS A PROGRAM SHILL WHOSE PURPOSE IS TO DISTRACT AND DEFLECT FROM THE REAL ISSUES.

Actually, I think we are all getting tired of this line.  You come on here and use it over and over again.  I am discussing the issues.  You are trying to turn this into “Thewhoâ€