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Offline Hamiltonf

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« on: May 14, 2003, 07:42:00 PM »
White, House, DFAF DEA etc are engeged in a massive attempt at mind control using the media.
I've been watching CSI a lot recently and therte's sooooo much messaging about how bad these drugs are, it has to come from somewhere.
Makes you wonder who is really the evil empire.

see: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n702/a10.html?999

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2003, 10:16:00 AM »
No! Say it isn't so! Not CSI - I love that show.
But, I have had that tingling sensation down the back of my neck I get everytime I feel a conformist message seeping through...but I choose to be in denile about the possiblity. I have to, or I'll miss the season finally.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2003, 03:24:00 PM »
I'm not sure I accept the premis of that article. Who didn't get the significance of a well orchastrated propaganda campaign after seeing what the Nazis did before WWII?

 

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams

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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2003, 05:23:00 PM »
the diffference betwee what the Nazi's did, and what The White House is doing is that the Nazi's were, well, EVIL and the White house is the epitomy of all that is virtuous and GOOD.  witness the following passage in the article.
"We are now entering the experimental stage of theories of media-generated social control.  Marijuana, being an illegal yet widely available and often used substance, provides an excellent laboratory in which to test those theories.

The White House Office of National Drug Control Policy has become the focus of this huge social behaviour experiment.  In 1997, the office's mission statement says, it "proposed and received dedicated funding for an historic initiative: a large-scale paid media campaign" implemented in conjunction with "a wide array of non-profit, public, and private-sector organizations, including America's major corporations and media companies."

The mission statement, aimed at an older generation of U.S.  Congress members who didn't get McLuhan, but who control the funding for the Office of National Drug Control Policy, outlines the theories that will be tested in this experiment: "Media campaigns, in some situations, can be a powerful force for social change" it says.  "Media have come to play an increasingly important role in public health campaigns due to their wide reach and ability to influence behaviour in a variety of ways."

The office points to "embedded messages" contained in Hollywood movies and pop music that influence mass society in their drug choices, and hopes to show that the state can also influence mass society by embedding its own messages in the same media.  Through various forms of coercion, including suggestions that to condone the smoking of dope is to aid and abet international terrorism, for example, the office has recruited major corporate and media empires to sign on to the project and provide support-which includes "embedding" anti-marijuana messages in their products."


So you see,  this kind of programming and media IS USED IN A BENEVOLENT AND CONSTRUCTIVE MANNER FOR THE BENEFIT OF SOCIETY.  

Isn't that what all the adollescent treatment centres were designed to do.  Program people for their benefit.  

AAAAh land of the free, home of the brave... just another pseudonym for friendly fascism.

The benefit of all this is that these media messages and images are being broadcast around the world, and the coalitions of the willing embrace it.  It helps maintain and expand US hegemony.  Way to go guys.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2003, 07:35:00 PM »
...But....

From the pov of the average German, Hitler was the savior of the German/Austrian people. They didn't believe the stories about unjust prosecution or harsh treatment and death in the prisons. The marque over the gates of Aushwitz said "Arbeit macht frei". That's what Germans believed was going on in there; convicted criminals given the chance to pay their debts to society and receive rehabilitation.

I don't see a big difference, except that the scapegoated class is identified just slightly differently.

If I am of the opinion that it is inexpedient to assign to the government the task of operating railroads, hotels, or mines, I am not an "enemy of the state" any more than I can be called an enemy of sulfuric acid because I am of the opinion that, useful though it may be for many purposes, it is not suitable either for drinking, or for washing one's hands.
http://www.mises.org/liberal/ch1sec7.asp' target='_new'>Ludwig Von Mises

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Offline hedwigfan

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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2003, 08:24:00 PM »
Gimme a break...how can you compare the systematic near-extermination of a group of people with something as trivial as this????!!!!!!
I speak for those of us whose families ACTUALLY suffered at the hands of the Nazis!!! You have no idea what you're talking about! Anyone who's ever been to Oswiecim (Auschwitz) would agree (I have been there TWICE). Get over yourselves!
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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2003, 11:16:00 PM »
It wasn't Ginger & Hamilton who did it.  It was the Nazi's.  Get over yourself.

Quote
On 2003-05-16 17:24:00, hedwigfan wrote:

"Gimme a break...how can you compare the systematic near-extermination of a group of people with something as trivial as this????!!!!!!

I speak for those of us whose families ACTUALLY suffered at the hands of the Nazis!!! You have no idea what you're talking about! Anyone who's ever been to Oswiecim (Auschwitz) would agree (I have been there TWICE). Get over yourselves!"

[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-16 21:00 ]
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Offline hedwigfan

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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2003, 07:12:00 AM »
JD, you totally missed the point! Look through old posts and you'll find numerous comparisons between Nazi Germany, Straight, and anything else someone decides to get on a soapbox about. I'm sorry, but there really is no comparison, and it disrespects those who suffered and those families who are still suffering. I can accept a comparison between Nazi Germany and what happened over in Bosnia, Croatia, etc. because it fits. However, it's melodramatic and irresponsible to compare the oppression of pot-smokers with the plight of those who perished at the hands of the Nazis.

[ This Message was edited by: hedwigfan on 2003-05-17 04:32 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2003, 10:13:00 AM »
:eek:

H, yes, believe or not, I am sorry for anybody who has ever experienced anything from death to degradation at the hands of anyone wanting to capitalize off of it in any way. I lost a Grandfather in WW2 fighting to liberate people from those camps amongst other things. WHY though, in the hell did I have to suffer at the hands of some money making scumbag such as Sembler is!?!? My life will never be the same, and yes people DID die, maybe not there, but eventually, it did take over and become too overwhelming for some to handle, so hence they killed themselves. Who are you to rate for US whether it is 'proper' or not to call these scumbags NAZIS?

If Sembler, the founder of 'Hate Incorporated' didn't want that title from us, then the shithead 'shouldn't of done the necessary things to deserve it'.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2003, 12:12:00 PM »
I would say that a proper comparison would be Striaght, Inc., DARE, etc. are equivalent to Hitler Jugund. Instead of a cutlive personality, we worshiped an ideal and very openly planned to take over the culture of the country and, eventually, the world.

But why do you think it's any less evil to imprison and kill people for smoking pot than for being Jewish, Gypsy, African, homosexual, deformed or stupid? Have you forgotten that Jews were not the only targets? Did you even know that trade unionists and Communists were first on the list before they started openly persecuting Jews?

Right now, we have over 2 million people in jails and prisons accross the country. Just in the last couple of months in the Pittsburgh area, some hundreds of people have been rounded up by agents of Betty Sembler's Multijurisdictional Counterdrug Taskforce Training

http://www.mctft.com/

http://it.spjc.edu/cfpro/cdt/cdesc/fina ... edescr.pdf

This is the same progrom that has trained and equipped the "elite task forces" that wound up making headlines for the Rampart scandal, the Bradenton (FL) scandal (planting guns and drugs), the Tulia scandal (http://www.mapinc.org/tulia.htm ), the Dallas sheetrock scandal and a string of police killings and rape of unarmed suspects in NYC under their infamous Rockafeller Laws.

Here are some of the people who have died as a result of this mindless persecution.

John Adams -- Tennessee

A 62-year-old black man was shot and killed by five white police officers in Lebanon, Tennessee after they burst through the front door of his home at 10:00 PM on a Wednesday night. It turned out their search warrant for drugs was erroneous: It should have been written for the house next door.

David Aguilar -- Arizona

David Aguilar, 44, retired from the military after 20 years and decided to live on his pension so he could be a "stay-at-home dad" to his five youngest children, aged 3 to 15, according to Beth Cascaddan, his neighbor in Three Points, Arizona. "He was extremely devoted to his children," Ms. Cascaddan told reporter Melissa Martinez of the daily Tucson Citizen. Aguilar also coached youth football and baseball.

But on the early afternoon of Friday, January 10, David Aguilar sensed something wrong. There was a man sitting in a car parked alongside the road bordering Aguilar?s property. Aguilar confronted the man and an argument emerged. Seeing that the stranger was not going to move along, Aguilar went back to the house and returned with a gun. The children told neighbor Bonnie Moreno their father was simply trying to scare the man away. There is no indication David Aguilar ever fired. When the man in the car saw Aguilar returning, he drew his own gun and, at 2:45 that Friday afternoon, fired multiple times through his own windshield.

David Aguilar died that evening in a Tucson hospital, of a single gunshot wound to the chest. The shooter was an undercover agent of the federal Drug Enforcement Administration. His name has never been released and he has not spent a single day in prison.

Delbert Bonar -- Ohio

Police in Belpre, Ohio, got a tip that Albert Bonar was growing and selling marijuana. So, on October 15, 1998, they raided the house where Albert lived, and shot to death his father, Delbert Bonar, 57, a janitor. Police did find a small amount of marijuana -- enough for personal consumption. Albert later admitted the marijuana was his.

The police did not find any of the growing plants or large quantities of marijuana the informant allegedly told them about. The informant who gave the false information has not been named. Police told the press that they were just protecting themselves when they riddled the body of Delbert Bonar with bullets. But Carolyn Bonar, daughter-in-law of Delbert, says that all Delbert had in his hands was a water bottle.

The elder Bonar was reaching for his telephone, an offense apparently punishable by death when there is a suspicion that marijuana may be on the premises. Delbert Bonar died instantly from 8 bullet wounds from police gunfire. In his 57 years, he had no criminal record and had never even been arrested.

Vernia Brown -- New York

On Thursday, March 17, 1988, at 10:45 p.m., in the Bronx, Vernia Brown was killed by stray bullets fired in a dispute over illegal drugs. The 19-year-old mother of one was not involved in the dispute, yet her death was a direct consequence of the "War on Drugs".

Scott Bryant -- Wisconsin

Age 29 at time of death when he was shot by police officer Robert Neuman of the Dodge County Sherrif's Department in Beaver Dam, WI, on April 28, 1995. Bryant was unarmed and did not resist in any way when police with a no-knock warrant charged through the door of his home.

His seven-year-old son watched his father die while an ambulance took 35 minutes to arrive. Police later reported finding less than three grams of marijuana (enough for two or three cigarettes). Police claim it may have been an accidental shooting. An accident that has changed the lives of the Bryant family and many others in his state.

Troy James Davis -- Texas

Troy James Davis, 25, died December 15, 1999 at Columbia North Hills Hospital, about 15 minutes after being shot by North Richland Hills police officer Allen Hill. Police had gone to the Davis home to serve a search-and-arrest warrant in connection with an informant's tip that there were drugs in the house. After the shooting, Davis' mother, Barbara Davis, 49, was arrested in connection with the drug possession investigation.

Police broke down the front door of the Davis home when they entered. Police have indicated that no drugs have been found on the home, using the ?crime scene? as an excuse for their lack of evidence. One wonders why police broke into the home rather than knocking on the door. What kind of evidence did they have and how did they get it? Who was the informant? Barbara Davis has a defense fund set up on her behalf The Barbara Davis Defense Fund.

Anna (Annie) Rae Dixon -- Texas

Age 84 and bedridden when she was killed by police in a 1992 drug raid in East Texas. No drugs were found in the home. A 28 year-old officer said his automatic pistol accidentally discharged when he kicked open Mrs. Dixon's bedroom door.

Earlier the evening of her death, an informant was given $30 to go into the Dixon home where he claimed he could buy drugs. He emerged with crack cocaine, but police did not search him either before or after the purchase. The informant reported that a few young women and children lived there, but he didn't report about the sick woman.

Police got a search warrant and returned to the house just after 2:00 AM. They sprinted up the ramshackle porch and smashed the front door with a battering ram. As they swept in, the officer kicked in the door to Ms. Dixon's bedroom and fell, slamming his elbow against the door and firing the gun. The officer said he collapsed and "started throwing my guts up crying because I knew I had shot somebody that didn't have no reason to be shot."

Steven Dons -- Oregon

Dons, 37, "committed suicide" while in a medical facilty run by the State. He had been the victim of an unlawful raid by the Portland Oregon Police Department over the heinous crime of "maybe" having had marijuana in the house he was staying in.

Dons was not a mild mannered customer. When the police kicked down his door without a warrant, he responed in a way appropriate for the situation. Using a rifle, he killed police officer Colleen Waibel and seriously wounded two other officers. The tragic results of a raid on a citizen who understood the Second and Fourth Amendments.

Ismael Mena -- Colorado

Kirk Massie -- Oklahoma

Officers shot and killed an armed Sparks man hiding in his bathroom one Tuesday morning in mid-2001 as a search warrant was served at his home.

Kirk Massie, 49, was armed with a double-barrel shotgun when agents entered his Lincoln County home at 7:50 AM to serve a warrant for methamphetamine. Massie operated a meth. lab in a bunker on the property. His life was taken because of it.

Pedro Oregon Navarro -- Texas

Acting on an informant's tip, members of the Houston Police Department gang taskforce stormed into an apartment last month they believed illegal drugs were being sold. When the man who lived there locked himself inside his bedroom, the officers kicked in the door and began firing.

Thirty-three bullets later, 23 year-old Pedro Oregon Navarro was dead, shot a dozen times, including nine times in the back. But the investigation in the wake of the fatal shooting shows the officers had no warrant, the informant was not registered with the police as required by Department rules covering drug informants, police found no drugs in Mr. Oregon's apartment and a gun officers said Mr. Oregon had pointed at them never was fired.

"They went knowingly and consciously in search of their own heroics and forgot to abide by the rules," says Tony Cantu, a hispanic activist in Houston. "The bottom line is they shot an innocent young man in the back after in illegal entry," Mr. Dovalina said.

Gil Nevarez -- Indiana

Gary, Indiana police officer James Ervin, 30, is accused of using his position as a nine-year veteran on the Gary Police Department to take part in racketeering, homicide and illicit drug distribution from at least the summer of 1998 through August 1999. Ervin killed or counseled the killing of Raul Huartado and Gil Nevarez on November 19, 1998, as part of a plot to extort more than 5 kilograms of cocaine from the victims.

Mario Paz -- California

A 69 year old grandfather died a brutal death at the hands of police looking for marijuana on August 9, 1999. No drugs were found.

It was an hour before midnight when an El Monte police SWAT team, serving a search warrant as part of a broad-ranging narcotics investigation, undertook what it called the "high-risk entry" of a Compton home -- shooting the locks off the front and back doors. Their warrant, which named no one specifically in the Paz home, says police expected to find marijuana and cash belonging to a suspected member of a drug ring who had allegedly used the house as a mail drop.

They found no drugs, but in the course of the search they shot a retired grandfather twice in the back -- killing him. The widow was hustled out of the house in nothing but panties, a towel, and plastic handcuffs. She and six others were later taken away and intensively interrogated, but no one was charged. Ten thousand dollars in cash was seized as evidence, along with a .22- caliber rifle and three pistols, according to investigators for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. The family said that the money was patriarch Mario Paz's life savings and that he kept firearms for protection in the high-crime neighborhood.

Robert Lee Peters -- Florida

Age 33 at time of death in St. Petersburg in July, 1994. Deputies did not identify themselves before breaking into the house as the family prepared to watch a movie. Friends and relatives say Peters may have mistaken them for burglars. Deputies did not know there were two children and his ailing stepfather (who had a heart attack after the shoot-out) in the house at the time of the no-knock raid.

The police tried to smash through the front door with a battering ram. Peters fired a .357 magnum through the door and was struck three times by the SWAT team. Two pounds of marijuana were confiscated from his home. Records indicate that a confidential informant bought 7.3 grams of marijuana. An undercover detective purchased 27 grams. His brother George was charged and did not resist arrest. George said his brother wouldn't have resisted either, had he known they were deputies. "All they had to do," he said, "was knock on the door."

Manuel Medina Ramirez -- California

When Ramirez, a 63-year-old retired golf-course groundskeeper, was routed from his slumber at 2:00 AM by armed men breaking down the door of his modest Stockton home, he instinctively reached for his bedside pistol. Shooting into the darkness, he brought one of the men down; the others returned fire, and Ramirez was shot dead in front of his son and daughter, who had also been awakened.

The armed men turned out to be a Stockton police anti-drug team who had obtained a warrant for the house after a friend of the Ramirez family was found with marijuana in his car and gave the police the Ramirez address as his own.

The officers claim they had identified themselves, but the Ramirez daughter says her father spoke poor English and couldn't understand them. No drugs were found in the house. "These were very quiet people," said a neighbor. "I never saw anything going on that could indicate drugs at all."

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n350/a05.html

They're actually still fighting the same war against the same enemy. Germans had a deep hatred of the Jewish Semites who'd changed their culture. So they made a handy scapegoat. Americans have an hysterical puritanical hatred for people who get high for fun without the pretense of illness as cover. So, here and now, drug users make a handy scapegoat, even for well-known Jewish people like the Semblers.

Does it make a difference, really, whether the mode of death is a gunshot, AIDS or Hep-C contracted during a prison rape or Nazi experiments or work camps? Do the dead people really care one way or another about mode of death or the subtle differences in ideology.

They're just as dead either way. And the rest of us, just like most Germans, have two clear choices. We can be scared shitless at what we see happening around us or we can shut our minds to it and pretend that it could never happen here.

Can you make any logica argument, based on facts and not just emotion, to show a meaningful difference between the War On (users of certain unpatentable) Drugs and the Nazis' war on all things not Arian?

Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.

--Abbie Hoffman



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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2003, 12:16:00 PM »
If the similarities exist, then they should be pointed out.  I'm not sure which pow camps Straight had more in common with, Korea or the Nazi's.  I don't see any point in putting Straight not one single notch above the Nazi's because the only reason they did not exterminate us is because there was no money in it.
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Offline ehm

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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2003, 02:25:00 PM »
NOVOCAIN.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2003, 06:56:00 PM »
Nah, I don't think that's the reason. I think the objective of the Program was to turn out good, compliant (if broken) true believers in the regime.

The objective of the Nazi work camps was a little different. They didn't start out with the intention of murdering their charges, either. That was the "final solution", but not the original plan.

Right now, many US prisons are actually considering ways to cut their food costs in order to balance their budgets. Gee, in a sane world, you'd think they might consider dropping the holy jihad against pot smokers and bong makers first, wouldn't you? But this isn't a sane world, this government is as fixated on pot smokers as Hitler was on Judaism. And we'll just go on and on filling up prisons and starving prisoners if necessary, unless and until we come to our collective senses and give these sadistic lunatics their walking papers.

If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education

--Thomas Jefferson

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2003, 07:54:00 PM »
*an overly enthusiastic anon doing the "raise the roof" dance for Ginger*

Go Ginger! go! go! Go Ginger! :nworthy:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2003, 08:04:00 PM »
ROFL!! Thank GOD for overly entheusiastic Anaons! Thanks!  :rofl:

Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom.  But the
tumult soon subsides.  Time makes more converts than reason.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679433147/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Thomas Paine, Common Sense

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