Author Topic: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.  (Read 83746 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #585 on: June 28, 2007, 11:05:37 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
More double speak from Isabelle.

Isabelle does not refer to programs.

Then this:

Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.

Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".

The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.

That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?

 :roll:

Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.

She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.

You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.

and her website is not all about wwasps.

Maybe she refers kids to people who refer kids to people who refer kids to programs?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #586 on: June 28, 2007, 11:07:30 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""

Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.

She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.

You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.

and her website is not all about wwasps.



 How in the hell is Izzy even qualified to present these "Alternatives"?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
TSW
« Reply #587 on: June 28, 2007, 11:07:51 AM »
http://myspace.com/danthechainsawman

Looks like 3 Springs Waygookin is Dan the Chainsaw Man

About me:
I live in Korea where I am a professional edutainer. Prior to my arrival to Korea I worked as a youth counselor for 4 very long years. As an amusing side note I remember the promise myself I made the very moment my plane landed in Korea. I promised I would never work as a youth counselor ever again. No more late nights filled with chaotic screams. No more screwed up group meetings filled with stories that make me sick in the stomach. Seriously though.. loved the kids.. they were great.. the rest of the staff.. meh.. A few gems in the rough, but the rest where a waste of space. Now I spend my time writing, reading, watching movies, and very slowly and carefully rehabilitating my blown out knees. Just recently I participated in my first ever Yongsan Hash House Harriers walk/run. Given the condition of my knees I took my time and walked. Not up to running up any hills. Have to say the after party was mildly amusing. Listening to them sing their songs reminded me alot of playing rugby back in Uni. Life is good. I could whine and complain alot about how I was thrown some curves. In reality that would be a bunch of total lies. No matter what I can't escape the obvious. I am alive. I am reasonably healthy. I have ten fingers and ten toes. I have my hobbies. One of these days I will start brewing my own beer. What more can a feller ask for?
MySpace Editor
MySpace Layouts MySpace Editor Icons Collage MySpace Graphics Photo Collage
Banner

___________________  

His first post on Fornits:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#115011

TS Waygookin
Disorganized Crime Boss

Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 3191
Location: 5 miles due south of hell.
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:36 pm     Post subject:    Reply with quote

I was reading over this forum, and I was immediately impressed with the intensity of the posters in general. With a great deal of thought I have decided to post my own experience as a staff member at a Three Springs Facility. I was a counselor, Master Counselor C3, for nearly two years at this particular program. To be honest the more time I have spent away from the program, the more guilt I have felt for what I have seen, and further what I had done.

Let me start with the beginning. I had just completed 2 years at another wilderness facility. It was a good place, physical restraints were kept to a minimum. Verbal de-escalation techniques were strongly encouraged. The camp leadership had spent years encouraging the growth of a strong culture emphasizing alternatives to physical management. We routinely utilized the group process method of huddles to discuss issues, and sometimes did so for many hours of a day. Nonetheless, the camp's mission of character improvement for adjudicated youth worked well, and had results for kids who would have otherwise been thrown in a detention center. [Yet he now claims all programs are bad? All should be shut down?]

After my two years in the swamps, I moved on to Three Springs. From the very moment I made my counselor visit I should have known better than to accept employment at that facility. Everyone of my instincts screamed, "BAD PROGRAM!" In my 24 hour counselor visit I witnessed numerous events, and had a great many concerns. In a program that models itself on the group therapy model that uses a group to facilitate treatment of individual issues, they had huge groups. The groups looked shabby, and dispirited. The campsites appeared to be an apalling mess. The counselors had a far to casual relationship with their residents. Let me delve into the details of each item individually, starting with the size of the groups.

The group therapy model as I experienced it works best when the size of the group is between 6 and 10 residents. Two of the groups on the Three Springs campus had groups of 15 youths. What happens in my experience is that the size of the group makes for lessened experience. For example, the bigger the group, the less attention can be paided to an individual youth's issues. The smaller the group, means a lack of social dynamics to stimulate the youth's group therapy. The explanation I was given by the Supervisor on duty entailed lack of staff. Apparently the facility had just went through a large reduction of staff, and was so bad they had office personell covering some of the groups. This alone should have been a big sign to myself that something was truly wrong with this particular site. Well if you can't guess I didn't catch on, but in fact witnessed a great deal more.

The groups were sloppy, and dispirited. They were poorly dressed in dirty, and torn clothing. They looked depressed, and honestly like a pack of beaten dogs. At first I was certain they had were just tired from working all day. As I spent time with the group I was assigned to for the day a few of them informed me this was the way they looked all the time. I was immediately concerned. How can you expect a group of boys to feel good about themselves if they are dressed like a pack of bums? You simply can not! Kids in programs do not need designer clothing, but they do need clean, well maintained clothes. They need to change their clothes daily. I was told by a counselor that they allowed the kids to decide when to change their clothes.

With a bit of investigation I found it was not uncommon that a few of the residents had gone more than a few days without changing their clothing. In fact, some of them simply did not have the clothing to change into, despite numerous letters written to their family workers to get more clothing from home.

The one thing I know is that if you want to improve the self esteem of anyone its probably a bad idea to let them go a few days wearing dirty nasty clothing. If you want a kid to trust you as a staff member you should probably not just turn a blind eye to his lack of clothing. In the last program I worked with we were frequently told to make darn good and sure that clothing items were not an issue. We had an entire section of the camp warehouse full of pants, shirts, and coats for kids who did not have enough clothing. Three Springs unlike the last program is a for profit enterprise. If a kid did not have clothes, he had to get them from home, and sometimes that took months.

Not only did these kids look like a pack of vagrants they certainly appeared to feel like them as well. They looked shabby, they were extremely negative about the program, and voiced constant statements about the depth of their own feelings of worthlessness. This really worried me. A good counselor would have found activities to help these kids feel better. A good counselor would have found building projects to not only build something useful, but to build a sense of ownership, and pride in a group of kids who hated everything around themselves. Ok I do realize that kids, and adults are not going to be fans of programs, but I do know from personal experience the kids will begin to feel ownership over their own situation [Hmmmmm …. Wonder what he means by from “personal” experience?]. If that sense of ownership is inherently negative, what good is the program doing them? NOT a damn thing.

Their campsites were for the most part an appalling pig pens. I nearly refused to sleep in the cabin due to the stench. Apparently cleaning of campsites was to time consuming, and something they only did when they needed. Oh god help me I was so disgusted. Its bad enough that they looked like bums, now the counselors did not seem to care that they lived in trash pits? What positive statement was being sent to these children? Nothing that I could tell. The only thing they appeared to be learning was, "Look like a bum feel like a bum, then go to your campsite, and live like a bum." The real sad part was most of the kids seemed like pretty descent sorts. Most of them had substance abuse, and self esteem problems. For the most part they were a fun loving bunch of guys. The kind of kids who really could have benifited from a work hard, play hard mentality. They were lazy, but what the heck thats something you can unlearn. I frankly had a hard time understand why half of them were even in a program.

Not only did I have a hard time understanding why they were in a program, I somehow convinced myself I could make a difference with my experience. Stupid. I should have said no and ran away screaming. None the less I reported to work, and underwent my 100 or so hours of orientation training. None of which was of any use to me. I had already received 4 times that amount of training at my previous program. A program that prided itself in simplicity of the group process, rather than what I would learn would be the hell of individual consquences. I spent most of my orientation trying to remain in the full awake posture. Somehow I graduated orientation, and was promptly asked to work with the young kids.

Off I toddled to the young kid's group. I really liked those kids they were a bunch of hell raisers of the first order. Never a dull moment for that matter. However, lets discuss not only the failings of the program, but MY FAILINGS as a counselor. These were a group of young children ages 10 to 14. The previous counselor's had not done a good job managing their treatment in a very useful manner. I went into their trunk room, and found rat crap in their foot lockers, and under them as well. They had several bed wetters who frequently wet their beds, and nothing was really done about it.

The behaviors of the group was of course of the chain. In retrospect I should not find anything about what I went through very amusing, but its hard not to laugh. I had to quell riots on a regular basis. I was attacked by 10 year olds. This was pretty interesting considering I am 6 foot tall, weighing nearly 280 pounds, and an avid weight lifter. The kids frequently went beserk over the smallest issue.

None of this was a surprise to me, as I already knew that any new counselor faces resistance from the group. Nothing new, but what did shock me was the total sense of indifference from the administration. Worse was my on attitude. I came from a facility that worked hard to keep physical restraints from being a daily part of our lives. We all accepted that at some point it very well may happen. However, we all did our part to make sure they didn't happen needlessly.

At Three Springs I was involved in almost 200 full on physical restraints. No one seemed to be alarmed with this number, and seemed to accept it as part of business with my group. In the end I instituted several programs to reduce restraints, but received little support from the administration. Lets delve into my responsibilities as a counselor a bit more.

I let myself be seduced into a sick culture. I let my experience of one good program fall to the wayside, and became a part of the sick Three Springs Machine.

I regularly used intimidation to force compliance.

I regularly used physical holds when they were not needed.

I rarely used proper proceedures when conducting these physical holds.

In short I became an active participant of the Three Springs identity. I really should have quit the company at that point, and moved on in life. However, I though I could make a difference.

In the end my group of hell raisers settled down. We began to function, and have alot of fun. Almost everyone of the residents had some form of ADHD, and thrived when I put them all to work. I normally tried to make sure that they had useful work projects. Some people liked to give their groups these pointless make work things that as far as I could tell did no one any good. While, my group began to thrive with me, they still acted like maniacs with my cocounselors. No surprise, they simply did not have the established sense of respect, or fear of my cocounselors. I came back on many occasions to find my group in the midst of a major crisis involving pudding. My favorite crisis being a kid urinated on himself and laid in the middle of the trail for over two hours in his own pee.

Things like this became so common, no one seemed to be surprised anymore. Myself went from being idealistic, to a part of a jaded corporate cancer.

All this came to end. I was of all things fired. My adaption to the program was so complete that I did not notice the periodic change of it around myself. I was fired for giving out an inappropriate consequence. in short I had a kid do something silly to keep himself busy, and out of trouble till suppertime. As a result he aquired a minor abrasion, and I was terminated. I have to say under normal conditions I would have fired myself. However, from what I gathered afterwards, the periodic change, was just that periodic, and things went back to business as usual. Despite all of this my termination was the best thing that happened in my time there.

In my two years at Three Springs I went from a person who cared, to a person who cared in all the wrong ways.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #588 on: June 28, 2007, 11:16:35 AM »
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry".  That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".  

TSW - you can apologize all you want for yourself but please, let's not paint Izzy with the same brush.  She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance.  Not the teen help industry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #589 on: June 28, 2007, 11:19:11 AM »
I've been looking all over for that one, I will be sure to add it to my blog.

That post was probably my best post on fornits, thanks for running it down for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #590 on: June 28, 2007, 11:19:15 AM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
More double speak from Isabelle.

Isabelle does not refer to programs.

Then this:

Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.

Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".

The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.

That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?

 :roll:

Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.

She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.

You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.

and her website is not all about wwasps.
Maybe she refers kids to people who refer kids to people who refer kids to programs?


 ::roflmao::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #591 on: June 28, 2007, 11:22:16 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry".  That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".  

TSW - you can apologize all you want for yourself but please, let's not paint Izzy with the same brush.  She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance.  Not the teen help industry.

Change this quote to

Quote
She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance.  

to this

Quote
She is a victim of her own greed and ignorance.  


And you will have now seen the point.

Well done ms. north of the rio grande.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 11:27:02 AM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #592 on: June 28, 2007, 11:22:31 AM »
"Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.

She believes in keeping kids home with parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.

You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.

and her website is not all about wwasps.
"

Psy, Touching post.  I relate to what your saying.  Somewhere in all this there is  mutual ground.  What happened to you and others needs to stop.  Kids need care and help, many times more than a parent can provide.  

I'm glad you admit that Patti Atwood was a ploy.  Read the correspondence between Patti & Isabelle.  Patti was adamant about receiving "a referral" for a transport "out of Tranquitliy Bay".  She was also adamant that her nephew could not go home.  He must be place somewhere before the parents would agree to move him from TB.

Goodness never comes from deceit.  Thanks for being accountable.  Getting on the same page and dealing with the reality of all this is where the focus needs to go.

Keeping kids out of these places to begin with solves much of the problem.  If there were no kids to send, these "treatment" centers would be out of business.  This begins with mentoring and coaching kids that are "on the edge".  Parents need to find another way to manage kids who seek trouble.  "There are no bad kids, only kids that don't know how to problem solve", James Lehman, MSW.

thank you for your honesty.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #593 on: June 28, 2007, 11:35:25 AM »
I don't think you know Psy like some of us do. But I'll let him answer for himself.

 :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #594 on: June 28, 2007, 11:38:24 AM »
Don't you people sleep?  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #595 on: June 28, 2007, 11:38:38 AM »
Guest, this is not a promotional website for Izzy's referral and coaching biz.  If you persist, you will be required to make a payment to Fornits at 25 cents per word.

Get out your checkbook honey.  This may get expensive!

The industry is a fraud.  My advice is to sell your snakeoil on CAICA or PURE.  You can not afford Fornits.

 :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #596 on: June 28, 2007, 11:40:07 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Guest, this is not a promotional website for Izzy's referral and coaching biz.  If you persist, you will be required to make a payment to Fornits at 25 cents per word.

Get out your checkbook honey.  This may get expensive!

The industry is a fraud.  My advice is to sell your snakeoil on CAICA or PURE.  You can not afford Fornits.

 :wink:


Thank you guest that is going in my signature.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #597 on: June 28, 2007, 11:43:39 AM »
damn it.. it was to long.

I'm gonna save that sucker for sure though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #598 on: June 28, 2007, 11:48:46 AM »
Can we move on from the Izzy Was Duped bullshit excuse and just accept the fact that she refers kids to unregulated programs and unlicensed transport companies under the guise of "advocacy"?

It makes no difference if Patty was real or fake.  What matters is Izzy does not have the qualfications to assist in the placement of children in any specialty school or program much less refer parents to a controversial outfit like PURE whose pre-screened programs include such entities as the now defunct Whitmore, Skyline Journey and Red Rock Ranch Academy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
« Reply #599 on: June 28, 2007, 11:51:48 AM »
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
Quote from: ""Guest""

Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.

She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.

You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.

and her website is not all about wwasps.


 How in the hell is Izzy even qualified to present these "Alternatives"?


BTW Ms. North of the Border.. I'm still waiting on an answer. What qualifies Izzy to present any sort of Alternative?

Could you also enlighten us to the qualifications she holds and the associations she was granted them from for her "life coaching"?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.