Psy BANNED AGAIN from st

[psy]

please.   just let him respond to my post... he'll shut up.  he can't back up his accusations.

[TheWho]

Psy wrote:

Is your definition of "speaking on adult level" somewhat similar to: "pretending to not have a bias"(like fox news)?

The “No Spin Zone” ,  I like the comparison  !!  Yes, no bias here just opinions…..

[exhausted]

Who

You cannot expect anyone who has gone through any trauma as a child, especially a preventable one to not be angry or bias .. it does affect ones entire life, I think they have a right to be pretty pissed off about it

[psy]

Psy wrote:

Is your definition of "speaking on adult level" somewhat similar to: "pretending to not have a bias"(like fox news)?

The “No Spin Zone” ,  I like the comparison  !!  Yes, no bias here just opinions…..

As I predicted... you did not respond to my request that you back up (or retract) your accusation with evidence:

Is it possible not to have a point of view?  If you say yes, you're fooling yourself.. or brain dead (both are plausible in this case); however, a point of view is no reason to ban somebody, especially when it is presented in a respectful manner, and nobody is offended.  You say "Not everyone was banned, just you and its because you were not helping with the situation or speaking on an adult level"[/u]...  Support it if you can.  But you can't. So you will change the subject, or leave out this portion of the message in your response.... maybe bring up the gorilla again.

You changed the subject, and did not support your accusation.  All you have to do is go over to ST, click on my username, and go through my post history.

[TheWho]

Psy wrote:

As I predicted... you did not respond to my request that you back up (or retract) your accusation with evidence

Psy, as you requested, I read some of your posts again (over on ST, not all) and you play games with people (you and TSW), talking about getting ID’s on people via their IP numbers.  You do the same thing here on fornits.  You like to play the fear card by using your IT knowledge and then when someone holds your feet to the fire because they find out what you are up to and all of a sudden its….”Oh, no we cant do that you need a subpoena, what is everyone talking about?”

The conversation is going on beautifully without you over on ST, you need not worry.  You don’t know what it is like to have a teenager in crisis and you, Psy, have only been exposed to one school (I believe, I may be wrong on that),  they are not all alike, believe me.  You talk about the boarding schools like they are all cults and suggesting that having their children exorcised or sent to an Amish farm is a better option, but you provide no studies to back up your position.  Your MO is spreading fear and if I was moderator I wouldn’t be happy either.  Its best to let them gather and share information based on each others experiences, as adults and parents, and discover what is best for their family without the input of someone who was not helped by the program they were in.
I am a firm believer that each conversation should be balanced but you don’t seem to (or refuse to) see that most programs are beneficial which brings a damaging catalyst to the conversation and tends to detract from their primary focus, which is to seek and discuss help for their families.

If you ever do get reinstated (which I believe you will given enough time and proven maturity here on fornits) I would suggest you do a little more listening and less manipulating.  Maybe take a look at my statistics and try to understand why they are different from other sites or lists (for starters).   I hope this isn’t too harsh for you…. you insisted and I tried to sugar coat this response the best I could and I refrained from reciprocating your phrase to me when I tried to be civil with you... what was that again?... Oh yes calling me an asshole.

[hanzomon4]

::T::.............  I think he really believes that shit?  ::eek3::

EDIT: SO who! You believe that ST parents should only listen to true believers and not the kids who actually were in programs? I hope that you don't see yourself as some benevolent program-parent power ranger, You're the guy that other naive parents would want to lynch  after they got back abused or dead children. I hope you explain to parents your circle of loss theory, I'm sure they'd love to know that you view kids as disposable.. As long as programs can keep being programs right?

[Anonymous]

You are being trolled, get a clue- duh!

[Anonymous]

I think it is important for parents to understand what they are getting into.. not the lies they are told from former used car salesmen that suddenly opt to be "admissions directors" for these programs.  The cult like activities and the view that these uneducated program owners think they know what is better for your child then you do.  They tell you its like a summer camp with disapline.  You are forcefed BS, anything you want to hear.. to let you believe they will be in a positive experience.  Accepting children of any issue.. I have even seen advertisements that these programs are acceptable for children with Aspergers Syndrome.  Tell me "The Who".. how could a program provide for a meek teen with aspegers, a child who is severely depressed, a drug addict and a gang member possibly benefit from the same program?  You don't have to tell me I'll answer for you.. abusive cult like activities that brainwashes the students.    

I have seen what it does to families first hand.  You get your "admissions director" to sell these programs like it is the answer to their dreams.. they will have their "child" back.  It will be a fabulous uplifting experience.  The weak and desperate parents who only want what is best for their child ask question after question to make sure the program they choose will be different from all the abusive programs they have heard about.  Only to be reassured that this is different.  That was that "other" program.  When in reality you have hired the same people from the former program that was shut down.  They just changed their names and moved on.  As a parent you couldnt imagine that people could get away with child abuse as a practice.  It must be against the law.. it must have just been that program or it was a mistake or accident.  It isnt until you have your child come home abused, mentally/emotionally traumatized  or in a bodybag.. that you realize you have been duped.  

Don't try to stiffle PSY because he has the guts to tell the parents EXACTLY what they are getting into and let your dirty little secret out.  He is taking his own free time to warn people about these programs.  He isnt sitting on his big fat blood money bank account trying discount the very few people who arent afraid to speak out about their horrible experiences.  May you choke on every dollar you make from abusing kids.

[psy]

Psy wrote:

As I predicted... you did not respond to my request that you back up (or retract) your accusation with evidence

Psy, as you requested, I read some of your posts again (over on ST, not all) and you play games with people (you and TSW), talking about getting ID’s on people via their IP numbers.  You do the same thing here on fornits.  You like to play the fear card by using your IT knowledge and then when someone holds your feet to the fire because they find out what you are up to and all of a sudden its….”Oh, no we cant do that you need a subpoena, what is everyone talking about?”

The conversation is going on beautifully without you over on ST, you need not worry.  You don’t know what it is like to have a teenager in crisis and you, Psy, have only been exposed to one school (I believe, I may be wrong on that),  they are not all alike, believe me.  You talk about the boarding schools like they are all cults and suggesting that having their children exorcised or sent to an Amish farm is a better option, but you provide no studies to back up your position.  Your MO is spreading fear and if I was moderator I wouldn’t be happy either.  Its best to let them gather and share information based on each others experiences, as adults and parents, and discover what is best for their family without the input of someone who was not helped by the program they were in.
I am a firm believer that each conversation should be balanced but you don’t seem to (or refuse to) see that most programs are beneficial which brings a damaging catalyst to the conversation and tends to detract from their primary focus, which is to seek and discuss help for their families.

If you ever do get reinstated (which I believe you will given enough time and proven maturity here on fornits) I would suggest you do a little more listening and less manipulating.  Maybe take a look at my statistics and try to understand why they are different from other sites or lists (for starters).   I hope this isn’t too harsh for you…. you insisted and I tried to sugar coat this response the best I could and I refrained from reciprocating your phrase to me when I tried to be civil with you... what was that again?... Oh yes calling me an asshole.

This is not ST.  You are an asshole.  You have more than earned the moniker:  See following example: I did not start the discussion on IP addresses on ST...  All I tried to say was that there was not as much cause to fear as people thought.  There is nothing revealing about an IP address (apart from approximate location, which is often way way off).  I explained it would take a subpoena to tie an IP back to a definitive name and address. I was attempting to dissuade NOT CREATE fear.  You just misrepresented me, painting me in a negative light... Given that you have done it before with Deborah, and others, I can only assume this is intentional.  Evidence = Specific quotations with links to the source fuckwit...  not your out of context interpretation.

Even if the IP address thing was an issue, it was before my first banning, and very old news.

"a little more lsitening and a little less manipulating"... is that what you told your daughter as well.  I love the M word... it just makes me want to ... mmmm... peace.. calm...  happy place... happy peaceful place....

The Amish thing was not a joke.  I have emphasized this again and again and again.  Many program parents have commented that most growth their kids have had came from introspection, and time spent on their own.  The exorcism comment was simply to allude to the lack of evidence supporting the efficacy of programs (about as much).  Behrens study... hmm.. done by an ed-con, on program picked kids.  PFFt.  oh... yeah.. that's a real reliable source.  NEXT!

You say: "prove it doesn't work!!!"  Wait here.. you're putting the burden of proof on me...  Ok... So you come out with a new drug...  you need to prove it works to the FDA to sell the thing.  It's to protect consumers.  If they FDA didn't exist, you could sell crack and say it cured aids.  I would say that you're full of shit, that it's obvious BS, and you would say "prove it"...  Fucking topsy turvy that one is.  Show ME it works.  If everything was as fine and dandy as you claim, you wouldn't be here trying to pull statistics out of your ass...  What is your interest?  Let's see here.. a program parent obsessed with industry statistics...  Hmm...  That does not strike me as very likely.  There is a market in this industry for bullshit statistics.  You get to say you debated the statistics with anti-program advocates.  You get to say it was conducted in an open forum for debate.. bla bla bla bla...  Marketing with half-truthes, lies, and Manipulations.  Eah.

Most program that are open now are only as good as they are young.  10 years ago, TB was given raving reviews, Western Samoa was a wonderful place to send the kids, and High Impact was just a fun wilderness experience.  Give it time.  Spin only lasts so long before people discover the truth.

Again.  I ask you:  retract your accusation or quote me and cite sources.

[psy]

I think it is important for parents to understand what they are getting into.. not the lies they are told from former used car salesmen that suddenly opt to be "admissions directors" for these programs.  The cult like activities and the view that these uneducated program owners think they know what is better for your child then you do.  They tell you its like a summer camp with disapline.  You are forcefed BS, anything you want to hear.. to let you believe they will be in a positive experience.  Accepting children of any issue.. I have even seen advertisements that these programs are acceptable for children with Aspergers Syndrome.  Tell me "The Who".. how could a program provide for a meek teen with aspegers, a child who is severely depressed, a drug addict and a gang member possibly benefit from the same program?  You don't have to tell me I'll answer for you.. abusive cult like activities that brainwashes the students.    

I have seen what it does to families first hand.  You get your "admissions director" to sell these programs like it is the answer to their dreams.. they will have their "child" back.  It will be a fabulous uplifting experience.  The weak and desperate parents who only want what is best for their child ask question after question to make sure the program they choose will be different from all the abusive programs they have heard about.  Only to be reassured that this is different.  That was that "other" program.  When in reality you have hired the same people from the former program that was shut down.  They just changed their names and moved on.  As a parent you couldnt imagine that people could get away with child abuse as a practice.  It must be against the law.. it must have just been that program or it was a mistake or accident.  It isnt until you have your child come home abused, mentally/emotionally traumatized  or in a bodybag.. that you realize you have been duped.  

Don't try to stiffle PSY because he has the guts to tell the parents EXACTLY what they are getting into and let your dirty little secret out.  He is taking his own free time to warn people about these programs.  He isnt sitting on his big fat blood money bank account trying discount the very few people who arent afraid to speak out about their horrible experiences.  May you choke on every dollar you make from abusing kids.

Damn... That's a good post.  So much condensed in so little space.  Very very well said.

[Karass]

Psy doesn't need ST to get his message or his story out. They can ban him all they want and still, naive newbie ST parents will find out about Fornits and other forums on their own.

And they won't be able to help themselves from coming over to see what the opposition has to say about dog kennel obedience training for young humans...

[TheWho]

Psy wrote:

"a little more lsitening and a little less manipulating"... is that what you told your daughter as well.

Ah..the real Psy comes out,….More assumptions and “sharp stick” tactics to take the focus off yourself.  This is why you need to mature a tad, Psy.  This need to make personal attacks against me and my family because you are forced to live by your own rules, not a good sign.

The Amish thing was not a joke.

Okay but does it work?  If it does, show us the evidence, maybe a control study from an independent source.  I don’t want to hear it from the Amish..it would be too bias, right?  And don’t site me an independent research firm because they are all making a profit, doesn’t fly here on fornits.

The exorcism comment was simply to allude to the lack of evidence supporting the efficacy of programs (about as much).

So no evidence their either, that’s what I thought.  So showing lack of evidence to show lack of evidence..Hmmm…might work someplace else?

You say: "prove it doesn't work!!!"…. you're putting the burden of proof on me…

Yes, that is what I hear every day…catch, your turn.  Don’t tell me all kids are abused because you say you have been, you are only one person,  just like I am only one parent.   How could I possibly be representative of a majority?  How can you be?
Nothing counts unless we all agree on the controlled study and nobody gets paid….

Most program that are open now are only as good as they are young. 10 years ago, TB was given raving reviews, Western Samoa was a wonderful place to send the kids, and High Impact was just a fun wilderness experience. Give it time. Spin only lasts so long before people discover the truth.

So you site 2 places?  The industry has grown by over an order of magnitude since 1997 and schools that cant keep up or abuse kids are falling quickly by the wayside.  We all know this, thousands of kids graduate and move on every year and how many end up not doing well?  

Again. I ask you: retract your accusation or quote me and cite sources.

No ….prove to me that providing a parent with statistical information to help their child in crisis is less important than a child telling their story on the internet, as you did earlier.

[Anonymous]

Think of TheWho as Brer Rabbit and pretend you're the Tar Baby.

[Anonymous]

Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us.  Here is a more complete account:

No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80


Why would theWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse?

There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10


Oh, that's all. What a disgusting person to spend their time making fun of child abuse victims.

TheWho: making fun of child abuse victims.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but this has turned into another Who thread...