Psy BANNED AGAIN from st

[nimdA]

What is more amazing is exhausted's progress. Not in the program for we represent the anti-program. Speaking one's mind is anti-program. I refer instead to her progress as a poster on these humble forums. When she first came to fornits her ability to fend off trolls was nonexistent.

Now she has progressively improved to the point where a few well placed eye rolls sends most trolls scampering. Further, she has gotten much better about not falling into futile arguements. This is evidenced in numerous cases on this forum and in the Struggling Retards forum.

If only more people, both parent and survivor, had her capacity to grow in a new situation. Be a far more interesting world.

[TheWho]

never mind Psy, it's given them someone else to pick on

Me  :lol:

-Exhausted, too lazy to log in

ST says: no attacking other posters...  and yet it never ceases to amaze me how blatant attacks on you are somehow permitted.

You are not an ST person, that is why.  No matter how hard you try to keep a level playing field there will always be a bias in any group situation, you may not even realize it.  In my couple of years here on fornits  I have witnessed some horrible things said to program parents, kids etc. and no one would blink an eye.   But when I snickered at someone saying they were “Duct taped from head to toe for no reason” or “Thrown into the ocean during a Typhoon” this place lit up like a pin ball machine, talking about “Who free forums”, talks about banning me, asking me to apologize etc..  If TSW posts a gorilla in a thread I am in and then I return it to a thread he is talking in then I am viewed as insensitive and considered wrong.  It’s just the way it is…If you are the only white person in the room you just can’t use the “N” word, no matter what your intentions are, but the black people can use it all they want.
I understand all of that because most people here on fornits can relate to the “survivors” more than you can “parents”.  When you go over to ST from fornits you take with you a predefined position and will be treated differently even if the rules are suppose to apply to everyone…..and “so it goes”…it is very difficult to apply the same rules to everyone, a lesson you will learn over and over as you go thru life, psy.

[nimdA]

:lol:

Same old shit different day.

[Anonymous]

never mind Psy, it's given them someone else to pick on

Me  :lol:

-Exhausted, too lazy to log in

ST says: no attacking other posters...  and yet it never ceases to amaze me how blatant attacks on you are somehow permitted.

You are not an ST person, that is why.  No matter how hard you try to keep a level playing field there will always be a bias in any group situation, you may not even realize it.  In my couple of years here on fornits  I have witnessed some horrible things said to program parents, kids etc. and no one would blink an eye.   But when I snickered at someone saying they were “Duct taped from head to toe for no reason” or “Thrown into the ocean during a Typhoon” this place lit up like a pin ball machine, talking about “Who free forums”, talks about banning me, asking me to apologize etc..  If TSW posts a gorilla in a thread I am in and then I return it to a thread he is talking in then I am viewed as insensitive and considered wrong.  It’s just the way it is…If you are the only white person in the room you just can’t use the “N” word, no matter what your intentions are, but the black people can use it all they want.
I understand all of that because most people here on fornits can relate to the “survivors” more than you can “parents”.  When you go over to ST from fornits you take with you a predefined position and will be treated differently even if the rules are suppose to apply to everyone…..and “so it goes”…it is very difficult to apply the same rules to everyone, a lesson you will learn over and over as you go thru life, psy.

The only reason you "The Who" are not banned is because you would just come back using another screen name.

EVERYBODY knows "The Who" is an asshole,so they keep you around as an example of what a real asshole is.
Havent you figured that out yet?

[TheWho]

The only reason you "The Who" are not banned is because you would just come back using another screen name.

Thank you for clearing that up for all of us...you should pass along your insight and knowledge to psy, who was banned from ST, he could use your help.

[Anonymous]

The only reason you "The Who" are not banned is because you would just come back using another screen name.

Thank you for clearing that up for all of us...you should pass along your insight and knowledge to psy, who was banned from ST, he could use your help.

Please.
Do you really believe that I wield any authoriety over "psy".

[exhausted]

They can attack me all they want, its okay, I'm not affected in my daily life for it

It does concern me however that there seems to be a real anger towards me because of how we are doing in spite of my kids not being placed in a program - as if well ... at least one of them .... is mad as hell at me for not going ahead and pllacing my kids - surely if a family can grow together without this drastic step, there should be cause for celebration  :-?  :question:

[TheWho]

Exhausted wrote:

....It does concern me however that there seems to be a real anger towards me because of how we are doing in spite of my kids not being placed in a program

I get just the opposite; I have encountered people here who have outward rage because I sent my daughter to a program.  At first I was like you are now and amazed that people could feel this way.

at least one of them .... is mad as hell at me for not going ahead and pllacing my kids - surely if a family can grow together without this drastic step, there should be cause for celebration  

Its going to happen, exhausted, …look at it like a “normal curve” you have your majority of the population in the middle 95.4% and then on each end you have your extreme cases (2.15% and 2.15%).  Then on the tails (3 sigma area, or better) you have those that are very extreme (fringe elements, we call them) who, on one end believe  --  any kids who smokes a cigarette should go to a TBS and then on the other end you have those who  -- would never send their kids to a TBS for help under any circumstances.
So it can be a shock to go from one end of the spectrum to the other, you get use to it over time, though.

[exhausted]

Thanks for the reality check Who, you are quite right

Of course I was one of those parents looking into sending my kid to a program during desperate times, I'm now one who won't consider it under any circumstances, so i can see both sides

Its strange that mature and 'succesful' adults who are in jobs of responsibility just cannot get to grips with the fact that the path i chose is working at the moment and really want to down me over choosing this way .. I'm not really bohtered but it makes me wonder why anyone wouldnt be happy that so far a resolution is in place, it seems a little odd to completely dismiss the idea of getting the family together without a program.

oh well

[psy]

The only reason you "The Who" are not banned is because you would just come back using another screen name.

EVERYBODY knows "The Who" is an asshole,so they keep you around as an example of what a real asshole is.
Havent you figured that out yet?

Not quite.  Nobody gets banned from Fornits.  It would be a relatively simple matter to ban him by IP and email address, but that is just not done here.

@The who:

Systems can be created to ensure fairness.  This is a fair system.  It is unmoderated.  Moderation ensures the group-think is enforced and irreversible.  The "group majority culture" of Fornits could conceivably change given that speech is not limited in any way.  

It is normally difficult to apply the same rules to everyone, but when there are no rules, there is no problem.  I hear a lot of ::blah:: out of you but little makes sense.  You aren't even talking about rules.  You are talking about your treatment.  There are no rules on treatment here.  It is fair (evenhanded) as it is.

There are other ways of doing things, and other forums.  If you don't like it here...  Nobody is keeping you here.  You won't be banned.

Regarding your comment on me going to ST... On ST, I broke no rules, offended no posters, and got banned...  I was liked over there. The positions I presented did not cause conflict becuase I presented them politely, and with respect to the other posters.  Something you do not do.  Most people here can't stand you. A whole bunch of people want you banned here, but policies won't permit it (and rightly.. it's a slippery slope).  On ST, only Mose agreed with me getting banned (and that's a given).  The other posters protested.  Here, there would be a celebration.

for blatant example:  in this thread, you compare a screaming gorilla, to your comments doubting a survivor's story.  In doing so, you start a flame war, in which whatever topic the thread was about, gets dragged down into bludgeoning you for your incomprehensible insensitivity.  I'm convinced you just don't see how...  nevermind.  there is no point in explaining it to you.  

Can you leave this thread please.  I can't make you, but, please leave.

[TheWho]

Psy wrote:

Systems can be created to ensure fairness. This is a fair system. It is unmoderated. Moderation ensures the group-think is enforced and irreversible. The "group majority culture" of Fornits could conceivably change given that speech is not limited in any way.

fornits is both..... it is moderated and unmoderated depending on the forum.  

It is normally difficult to apply the same rules to everyone, but when there are no rules, there is no problem. I hear a lot of  out of you but little makes sense. You aren't even talking about rules. You are talking about your treatment. There are no rules on treatment here. It is fair (evenhanded) as it is.

Fornits has rules, but you don’t see it because you live within the rules.  The rules are dictated by the majority, they don’t need to be written on the door.

Regarding your comment on me going to ST... On ST, I broke no rules, offended no posters, and got banned... I was liked over there. The positions I presented did not cause conflict becuase I presented them politely, and with respect to the other posters. Something you do not do. Most people here can't stand you. A whole bunch of people want you banned here, but policies won't permit it (and rightly.. it's a slippery slope). On ST, only Mose agreed with me getting banned (and that's a given). The other posters protested. Here, there would be a celebration.

Yes, you did break the rules…Psy, you went over to ST with a preconceived notion of what is right and wrong.  But on ST you are speaking primarily to adults and adults who have teenage children, none of which you can relate to.  Don’t take it the wrong way, you are probably a smart kid, but you are just that, a kid who has had a bad experience in a program.  You are not mature enough so you cant relate to what these parents have gone thru or the decisions they have to make.  I have read your posts, they are off base and insensitive from their point of view and you carry your baggage from fornits over there. Oh, sure you can find a few people to rally behind you and say you shouldn’t be banned, but the bottom line is you were.  Not everyone was banned, just you and its because you were not helping with the situation or speaking on an adult level, just like I would be banned here (as you pointed out) because my perspective and approach doesn’t sit well with many here.

There are other ways of doing things, and other forums. If you don't like it here... Nobody is keeping you here. You won't be banned.

I don’t think I ever said I didn’t like it here….I have been here 2 years.

for blatant example: in this thread, you compare a screaming gorilla, to your comments doubting a survivor's story. In doing so, you start a flame war, in which whatever topic the thread was about, gets dragged down into bludgeoning you for your incomprehensible insensitivity. I'm convinced you just don't see how... nevermind. there is no point in explaining it to you.

No, Psy, I didn’t, they were two separate examples.  I indicated that I have witnessed some pretty rough stuff going back and forth here on fornits over the time I have been here and no one has raised an eyebrow, but when I snickered about someone being thrown into the ocean all hell broke loose (I broke the rules)…my point being there are unspoken rules…. And you broke them over on ST, get over it and move on….  As far as the gorilla goes it seems you missed the point (twice).

Can you leave this thread please. I can't make you, but, please leave.

That makes no sense based on what you were just preaching...we have been through this ...TSW has a forum in-which I dont post (who free), you could start a "I was unfairly banned from ST..." thread over there.

Sorry, If I seem insensitive or blunt towards you, but you have approached this subject a few times with me, I am not the one to blame for you getting banned.

[psy]

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I'm having troubles posting a response.

[psy]

Fornits has rules, but you don’t see it because you live within the rules.  The rules are dictated by the majority, they don’t need to be written on the door.

It has taboo, not rules.  Rules are enforced by authority.  There is no authority here.

[psy]

You are not mature enough so you cant relate to what these parents have gone thru or the decisions they have to make.

Oh... Yes.  I don't understand the basic psychology of fear as a motivator.  I don't understand the techniques used to control the group dynamic via communication.  :roll:

Yes.. I am totally ignorant of that... It's not like any of that happened in program.... :roll:

[psy]

I have read your posts, they are off base and insensitive from their point of view and you carry your baggage from fornits over there.

No posters complained about my posts. Only the management had a problem.  You say "insensitive"?

I, personally, respect his opinions and appreciate the input and dialogue.

I believe that spy brings a very important intelligent (albeit sometimes opposing) view to the discussion regarding programs. His opinions are further validated (in my mind) by his own personal experience in a program.

It is unfortunate that parents coming to ST for help and information can no longer get the perspective of an intelligent young man who survived a bad program...and who seems to be doing well in spite of that.

It is clear that the vast majority of people here have no problem with PSY being a member of this board and I think the people in charge should give what the vast majority of this board wants and in this case, that is PSY being a member of this board.

Psy is not an OverLorrd 'type' (<--- he does come to this forum to 'stir the pot' in my opinion). There is a vast distinction in my mind. I reiterate that Psy brings intelligent, personal experience to the dialog.

"Why is asking any tough questions or giving a point of view which is in the minority seen as getting things "off track" baiting, or being unsupportive.

Moving on from any pathetic slanging matches, about Psy ... all I can say is I talk to him personally as well on Forums, I question some of the things he says but he NEVER shouts me down, NEVER, he always, without fail, offers me a debate that is carried out in a mature and balanced way, Psy is not about disruption, he's about offering alternative ways of dealing with what is a desperate situation for both parents and child, having been through what he has, I find him an amazing young man, why would he banned for alerting parents and kids to the dangers they could well be facing? Is this not the aim of Struggling teens? To make sure that a pleasant and happy outcome is achieved for parent & child?
Banning Psy makes me wonder if this isn't the case, is Psy such a threat to the industry that he must be silenced?

On Fornits there are worringly tales of brainwashing etc along with physical abuse stories but if a parent was only to read this site they would have no idea.

I've got nothing against psy, he seems a nice, intelligent guy with what I consider some blind spots about parenting, schools, and so forth.

those aren't just "a few" posters... those are pretty much all their most active posters.