ASR's Violations of Massachusetts Education Law

[hanzomon4]

umm, look it seems like monty python's argument shop...yes they are, no they arn't.  i followed the link and true i could not find ASR on the site but i found the site a little confusing so there is nothing saying they are not either.......i was wondering if anyone called this mohawk school district and asked someone there???   seems to me that would be very conclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is confusing.  ASR is classified by the state as a "Special Ed school" because that was the best fit for them according to the state.  They could have been classified as a "Private Boarding school"  but they provide therapy.  They do not have an approved program because if they did they would be subjected to all the regulations of the state, so ASR is happy to stay Private.
Unless a school is looking to benifit from being approved, like getting state money and grants etc. there is no reason to seek approval and be subjected to state regulations.

Ok so you agree that ASR is trying to avoid state oversight. Tell us who what "evil" state regulations scare ASR?

Specifically....

[TheWho]

There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to?  If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it?  Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?  

I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.

[RobertBruce]

There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to?  If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it?  Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?  

I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.

That's Who today.

This is Who yesterday.

That is exactly what is needed. If the schools become regulated then the parents will feel more at ease about sending their kids there. Yhe environment will be safer and the feds typically require schools (which are regulated) to track the effects of their treatment of the kids so that the success or failures can be easily seen. The better schools will rise to the top and the others will either have to improve or go out of business. This is good news for kids and parents, thanks.

Why the change of heart Cindy?


http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#135714

[TheWho]

There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to?  If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it?  Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?  

I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.

That's Who today.

This is Who yesterday.

That is exactly what is needed. If the schools become regulated then the parents will feel more at ease about sending their kids there. Yhe environment will be safer and the feds typically require schools (which are regulated) to track the effects of their treatment of the kids so that the success or failures can be easily seen. The better schools will rise to the top and the others will either have to improve or go out of business. This is good news for kids and parents, thanks.

Why the change of heart Cindy?


http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#135714

Well after reading and seeing the effects of "Big Brother" I started changing my tune a little.  I use to feel holding a schools or business's feet to the fire was a good thing.  But it can stiffle creativity and growth in some business's.  So I am moving away from my previous position of regulation for everyone.

[RobertBruce]

See how easy being honest is? I figured you were just going to do your usual song and dance and lie about ever having made the comment.

TheWho wrote

Waaah I never said that, someone changed my post. Deborah's a big meanie and I just pooped my pants. Waaahh

But you suprised me, you were man enough to be honest and say youd simply changed your mind. I'm proud of you Cindy. Maybe youre finally starting to grow up a little.

[hanzomon4]

There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to?  If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it?  Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?  

I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.

You're making stuff up again Who  :flame:

I want specifics not "they'll makes us repaint the restrooms" smoke and mirrors. You can't give me any specific law to look at? Why spread FUD? I'm asking you a straight question. I'm not asking for an argument I just want to know what specific oversights/regulations makes you piss your pants a little.

Look at other programs that you know to be abusive that can't be touched because they exist outside of the law. You have a kid, allegedly, could you imagine how pissed you would be if you sent her to Tranquility Bay were she was abused and then find out that you have no way of getting justice?

[Deborah]

I've posted the link to the Mass Regulations several times and invited him to cite the regs he felt wouldn't "add value" to a program, specifically ASR. He's not interested in that discussion. He'd rather carry on about the state controling everything from what computer software one uses to what color the bathroom will be to the treatment venue- cammo/drill sgts. Not sure who he's trying to sell that load to.
All treatment facilities are required to be licensed. Those that aren't have simply deceived the state regarding 'services provided'.

[TheWho]

There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to?  If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it?  Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?  

I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.

You're making stuff up again Who  :flame:

I want specifics not "they'll makes us repaint the restrooms" smoke and mirrors. You can't give me any specific law to look at? Why spread FUD? I'm asking you a straight question. I'm not asking for an argument I just want to know what specific oversights/regulations makes you piss your pants a little.

Look at other programs that you know to be abusive that can't be touched because they exist outside of the law. You have a kid, allegedly, could you imagine how pissed you would be if you sent her to Tranquility Bay were she was abused and then find out that you have no way of getting justice?

Not making anything up…. Just trying to explain why (in general) businesses do not like state oversight.  It is not because of a single regulation, but the fact that it restricts you from doing things, slows down progress and change and can be costly.  If there can be no attributed value to doing this why sign up?
As far as TB I would not like it at all.  Not all programs/schools abuse kids….the problems at TB should be addressed, I agree.

[RobertBruce]

Cindy, we're looking for you to get specific.

but the fact that it restricts you from doing things

What things? Specifically.

slows down progress

How so? Again specifically.

and change and can be costly.

Why? What specifically is so costly?

If you want to have a real conversation on here you're going to have to learn to stop making things up and speaking in generalizations.

[Troll Control]

One needent look any further than the energy industry to see that deregulation spawns graft, fraud, waste and abuse.  

Besides, there isn't any "creativity" needed for treatment.  We have SCIENCE for that.  Only TBS's suppress proven treatment because they don't want to pay the cost of professionals' salaries, so they get uneducated hacks to implement non-outcome based "treatment".

Mental health treatment is, and should be, regulated.  It keeps patients safe and assures ethical, proven treatment methods.

[TheWho]

One needent look any further than the energy industry to see that deregulation spawns graft, fraud, waste and abuse.  

Besides, there isn't any "creativity" needed for treatment.  We have SCIENCE for that.  Only TBS's suppress proven treatment because they don't want to pay the cost of professionals' salaries, so they get uneducated hacks to implement non-outcome based "treatment".

Mental health treatment is, and should be, regulated.  It keeps patients safe and assures ethical, proven treatment methods.

ASR has moved, over the years, to a clinical model and more outcome based "Teatment".  
As you can see by some of my past posts, I have been on the fence with this issue.  If a business is grossly out of line then regulation can serve to correct and bring them back on course by holding their feet to the fire.  But other business do better without the restriction of state oversight

[RobertBruce]

Yet you wont get specific on what regulations you believe will hurt ASR.

[TheWho]

Yet you wont get specific on what regulations you believe will hurt ASR.

No, I dont have a specific rule or regulation that comes to mind.

[Troll Control]

This is like saying "I hate blacks.  Don't know why, just do."

If you can't point out regs that you think reduce "value", then you don't have any that you disagree with.

This is more of a Libertarian generalization than a specific issue.  Just dogma without reason.

[RobertBruce]

Well Cindy's political ideology lies somewhere between extreme libertarianism and mild anarchy. So this is to be expected.

So since ASR's staunchest supporter cant supply a single regulation that he believes will actually hurt ASR it looks as if we've firmly established that ASR being forced to become licensed and regulated is a positive thing across the board.