Lone Star Expeditions

[TheWho]

If Ford was actually knowingly building unsafe cars and passing them off as being safe, then no I wouldnt have a problem with it at all. In fact I'd probably question why he chose to work for such an irrespondsible company in the first place.

That answers my question,  Thanks.

[RobertBruce]

Good deal.

Would you have a problem with letting the world know your son worked for an irrespondsible company?

[Deborah]

They put it on a public website, they wanted the whole world to know they work for this place. They chose to be associated with the good and the bad that comes with it.
If it were a situation were we paparazi like pictures of these people then I could understand, but they did this to themselves.

So in the example above.  You wouldnt mind your child being treated like this, if they worked for Ford?

And Who derails another discussion, about a child who was killed at a program, with another irrelevent analogy to discussion about respecting the "children" who work there. Do they employ minors who have no rights? Well, on second thought, that's not too far from the truth.

[TheWho]

They put it on a public website, they wanted the whole world to know they work for this place. They chose to be associated with the good and the bad that comes with it.
If it were a situation were we paparazi like pictures of these people then I could understand, but they did this to themselves.

So in the example above.  You wouldnt mind your child being treated like this, if they worked for Ford?

And Who derails another discussion, about a child who was killed at a program, with another irrelevent analogy to discussion about respecting the "children" who work there. Do they employ minors who have no rights? Well, on second thought, that's not too far from the truth.

Very typical, Deborah, someone doesnt agree with you and you claim they derail the conversation or you split their responses off so you dont have to respond.

[TheWho]

Good deal.

Would you have a problem with letting the world know your son worked for an irrespondsible company?

No, I wouldn’t want my child’s picture and name on the internet being criticized by a group of people that didn’t believe in what he was doing.  If he was working for a irresponsible company he would be working to change things and make them better.
Only fringe groups take pleasure in ridiculing other people who don’t have the direct authority to affect change within their organization.
Its wrong and everyone here knows that.  There is just so much hatred towards these places that you don’t care who you hurt as long as you can dump some of your anger on someone

[RobertBruce]

Riiiiiiight. And alot of the SS members were just following orders right?

Its time to wake up. These people know full well what sort of company theyre working for and they know what goes on there. If they have a problem with the way things are done there they have the option of leaving, or even better yet. Reporting it.

They take so much pride in working there they should have no problem when we hold them accountable for what goes on there.

Its a two way street.

[hanzomon4]

Who's on the aspen payroll, I'm convinced

His/her job description - "Protect ASPEN from fornits!!"

[TheWho]

Who's on the aspen payroll, I'm convinced

His/her job description - "Protect ASPEN from fornits!!"

More like “Protect the parents from fornits”  Ha,Ha,…….  Many can take a beating or get one sided information if they happen to stop in here looking for help.

[RobertBruce]

Not if theyre honest....

[Oz girl]

So who getting back to the actual discussion of the philosophy of tough love which puts catching kids out for "faking" second to actual first aid, how is this morally justifiable to you? After all Aspen have now twice encouraged this mentality to be captured on tape and actively promoted to Britian and europe. What does a kid with some kind of physical or emotional pain get out of it?

[TheWho]

So who getting back to the actual discussion of the philosophy of tough love which puts catching kids out for "faking" second to actual first aid, how is this morally justifiable to you? After all Aspen have now twice encouraged this mentality to be captured on tape and actively promoted to Britian and europe. What does a kid with some kind of physical or emotional pain get out of it?

I don’t see it as justifiable at all..... I see the difficulty with all the people involved and I think it would be difficult for any professional if a kid constantly was faking an illness and taking time away from the other kids who needed attention.  If the time came for this child when he needed help it may not come as quickly if the counselor was working with another kid or preoccupied with another task....the emergency would be weighed based on past experience I would imagine.  Of course the professional would treat the child but precious minutes could be lost.
Not sure what the solution would be for this.

[RobertBruce]

"Great news mam'm, your son finally started being honest. Yes we're thrilled about it as well. It really shows marked marked improvement? What's that you ask? What did he decide to be honest about? Well.......promise not to be mad okay? You see a couple times over the past couple of weeks your son decided to be a little trickster and pretend to be sick. Every time he did we slapped his belly and made him punch himself in the face to see if he was telling the truth, and he never was! We'll anyway today we go on this quick little walk right? What's that? Oh it was 11 miles I think, no big deal anyw...what's that? Ummmm 110 degrees I think. I dont know really I was following behind in a car. So anyway we get back and like the little jokester he is he decides to sit down by the tree and start snoring. Well we were certain he was faking even after he started vomitting and eating dirt. I mean what kid doesnt right? So anyway I decide this time I'll get him, I rounded all the kids up and sent them along, then I crept back and hide in the bushes waiting for him to get up, cause I knew he was faking. So i stake out a good spot behind some bushes and waited a good 45 minutes. When I saw the blood trickling out of his ear that's really when my professional training kicked in and I did everything I could to save him! Sorry though, your kid is dead. But hey, at least he was honest about something right. When he kept begging me for water he was finally telling the truth. Every cloud has a silver lining right? Hey youre not gonna tell on us or nothing are you?"

[Oz girl]

I don’t see it as justifiable at all..... I see the difficulty with all the people involved and I think it would be difficult for any professional if a kid constantly was faking an illness and taking time away from the other kids who needed attention.  If the time came for this child when he needed help it may not come as quickly if the counselor was working with another kid or preoccupied with another task....the emergency would be weighed based on past experience I would imagine.  Of course the professional would treat the child but precious minutes could be lost.

That is the thing. A kid who is overall having a positive experience and geting the "help" they need would be unlikely to fake sick continuously because they would want the help. So if they are claiming illness on a regular basis they are either
a) sick and in need of immediate medical attention
B) Not physically sick but getting nothing out of the program and actively distressed

There are few other youth industries which take this unique view that repeated claims of illness are most likely to be untrue.
How is either of these things a desirable or helpful thing for a kid?

[TheWho]

Good point Oz Girl

C)   Another option is the kid is fighting the fact that he has to be there and is trying to find a way out.


If you have kids you will know they can be tough to motivate at times.  My daughter would always say her legs hurts when we asked her to do something but when it came time to go to the mall she seemed fine.  Once they get their butts in gear and start working and understand the consequences or get into the routine they are usually fine.

So I guess what I am saying is at the onset (or transition part)of the program it is probably the danger part because the counselors are trying to get to know the new kids and the new kids don’t want to be there.  Lots of games and manipulation going on etc. and mistakes can be made

I think this is very dangerous, no one knows each other, how they react.  I would be interested to know how other places deal with kids during a transition like this myself

[Oz girl]

This did not answer the question. it was just a story about your daughter.
So i will ask another way
How does discomfort either physical or emotional help any kid?