Author Topic: What real activism looks like  (Read 4509 times)

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Offline nimdA

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What real activism looks like
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 09:54:11 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The anonymous  don't like it, TheWho, and the former staff members don't like it.  You all have a lot in common it would seem.


I'm not sure where I stand with them at the moment. I'd have to hear more about them. My biggest guess is they've been duped by Sue Scheff and its a matter of educating them on her many transgressions. If that is all it is I'd rather not see them wailed on and put on the defensive. The song I listened to was rather catchy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 02:20:41 PM »
Sadly, these kids don't appear to have the insight they need to understand that legitmizing the referral industry is not the way to save children.

It is the gateway to exposing them to the same kind of abuse and exploitation they endured.

Selling kids to programs is abusive, in and of itself. It does not matter if the program is a WWASPS program or not.

You would think WWASPS kids would know that better than most, given the majority of them were victims of WWASPS "referral" program.

Are they so desperate for "support" that they would sacrifice the safety and well-being of children in the name of activism?

The anti-wwasps movement has turned into a sick, twisted way to exploit children and parents and should not be tolerated by anyone who claims to be a humanitarian or activist.

PURE is a referral company. CAICA supports PURE which raises troubling questions about a conflict of interest.

This is not rocket science, space cookies. If you really want to make a statement, then have the courage to stand up for your beliefs and be true to your message. Don't sell your soul and expect anyone to buy your CD's.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 02:37:23 PM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Quote from: ""Guest""
The anonymous  don't like it, TheWho, and the former staff members don't like it.  You all have a lot in common it would seem.

 My biggest guess is they've been duped by Sue Scheff and its a matter of educating them on her many transgressions. If that is all it is I'd rather not see them wailed on and put on the defensive. The song I listened to was rather catchy.


It seems they are learning disabled when it comes to this subject; but I agree with you. I don't want to see them wailed upon either. Still, it doesn't seem right to ignore their passionate alliance with a teen referral business - and one with a history of ignoring allegations of serious abuse. I wouldn't want to be hostile towards these boys, but at the same time, under the circumstances, no way could I promote them.  But if they have the love and support of SS and Izzahell, they don't need to worry about  "extremist"  like me :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 02:45:44 PM »
You are discounting all the good work these kids did because of one tiny link on their page. They dont link to Pure, they only link to Caica, so the connection is tenuous at best. You are distorting facts to make these people seem worse than they are. This is another reason program survivors do not post here are align themselves with regulars from this site. They know if they show one iota of positive feelings towards a program, they will be hounded without remorse. there is no loyalty here or in this community. you pounce on each other at the slightest inkling of pro program symptoms, and its getting out of control. this is program like behaviour, just the opposite extreme of the spectrum. in a program if a kid accidentally says he dislikes the program they are punished. if a poster mistakenly posts positive feelings about a program, or GOD FORBID has a small link going to a  site that you personally disagree with, you publicly denounce and humiliate them. these kids getting worked over once at SCL is not enough is it? lets fucking humiliate them again. how long until we post their pictures here? their full names? you all know how it goes. mine as well get on with it, eh.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 03:01:28 PM »
Don't Space Cookies have SUE SCHEFF liisted as a "friend."
Come on...these are not dumb kids.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2007, 03:06:44 PM »
Stop lying guest.

Space Cookies has a link to helpyourteens.com

THAT IS PURE.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2007, 03:11:52 PM »
"They dont link to Pure, they only link to Caica."

Wrong -- they most certainly do link to PURE.

Why lie about it?  Stand up and be proud.  

 :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2007, 03:17:16 PM »
Unless they have very recently removed it, they were linking to PURE as well as CACA.  AND - they have every right to do so! No argument with that. But - this is going to make them party to the same controversies that constantly swirl around these two groups. If they removed the PURE link then that's something, I guess - but linking to CACA with all CACA's constant promotion of SS and PURE  - well you might as well link straight to PURE. The two are so intertwined at this point, you can't separate them. The way I see it, CACA has become nothing more than an extension of PURE.

As for the Space Cookies, If they want to embrace a referral agency as "good and helpful", and deride a watch dog group as "whining, lying extremist" then they are going to find themselves not only talked about, but joked about and laughed at. Sorry - but that's often an unavoidable consequence of willful ignorance.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2007, 03:34:07 PM »
Please check out these anti-WWASP websites!

http://www.helpyourteens.com

http://www.caica.org

--------------------------------------

That's what is posted on Space Cookies.

PURE and CAICA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2007, 03:39:28 PM »
My mistake I see the link now. Yeah so obviously this doesnt sit well with the PURE hate club here, thats no surprise. My point is that if you simply emailed them and had a rational discussion, or a website or blog or something explaining why PURE sucks in program survivors to suit their agenda of referral then you might get them to take them down. Going straight to attacking them publicly on a forum is counterproductive. It makes you look crazy and not credible. That is reality of perception, doesn't matter if your argument might be right. Dont let hate for PURE and SS be diverted to those who are also fooled by her. Wernt you both fooled by her once? I assume that is where all this hatred is coming from, am I right? Laughed and ridiculed at, that is a subtle threat that if these kids dont take down the link you will continue with the public humiliation threads. That is a threat, similar to what hate groups do. No open discussion, either you do what we say, or as an organized hate group we will publicly attack you, its nothing new. I am just surprised this is the first tactic used by supposed peopel on the same side. third point, how many program parents listen to heavy metal and hard rock. these songs were written by survivors, for survivors and i doubt they made these for parents who are seeking advice on where to place there kid. 'who killed karly newman' or 'the disguise' or the other song, you woudlnt even understand half of it if you werent at a wwasps facility. i know this post will not change your mind but its not for you, its for the new posters who come here. to save them the trouble of being dragged down into a community of hate that professes the same views as programs, shutting down discussion when something you dont agree with comes up. instead you could put up a website, blog or announce in a million ways how you feel. instead, you attack and blackmail.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2007, 03:50:44 PM »
First of all guest, there is NO I Hate Pure or Sue Scheff Club.

That is a myth perpetuated by persons who have a stake in the anti-wwasps movement.

Other than that, your post makes some good points about the target audience of the groups' music.

Survivors who support the referral industry will find themselves one day asking for forgiveness just as their parents have done when they realized how misguided they were to send their child to a hellhole disguised as a "program".

There is no middle ground when it comes right down to it.

The sooner Space Cookies distances themselves from the toxic wasteland of the referral (now called parent advocate) industry, the better.

My suggestion would be to at least put up a link to organizations that give parents insight into the controversy surrounding the referral industry.  

Here's one I found:

http://paulareeves.com/Press_Releases/r ... e_zone.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2007, 04:51:53 PM »
///My point is that if you simply emailed them and had a rational discussion, or a website or blog or something explaining why PURE sucks in program survivors to suit their agenda of referral then you might get them to take them down. Going straight to attacking them publicly on a forum is counterproductive. I///


You are making assumptions that have no basis in fact, guest.
Simply email them  :roll:
Let me ask: What makes you think people haven't emailed them?

I really don't care what they link to - or not; I'm just saying it will make a difference in how they are viewed by others.

///that is a subtle threat that if these kids don't take down the link you will continue with the public humiliation threads. ///

No - not at all! I was surprised to see them hit Fornits so soon. I thought it would take awhile for people to discover this little controversy. But, here tiz.

People are going to talk about this - and I expect there will be a certain amount of jest at their expense. Its no threat. Its just a fact of life. To tell ya the truth, I have seen no reason to believe they give a ratts ass what a bunch of lying extremist think anyway.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2007, 05:05:37 PM »
Quote

You are making assumptions that have no basis in fact, guest.
Simply email them
Let me ask: What makes you think people haven't emailed them?

I asked this several times of this poster and no response, so I am left to make assumptions. Did anyone email them and having a conversation with them about this or did it go straight to public attack?

Quote

People are going to talk about this - and I expect there will be a certain amount of jest at their expense. Its no threat. Its just a fact of life. To tell ya the truth, I have seen no reason to believe they give a ratts ass what a bunch of lying extremist think anyway.


They would if you didn't start the conversation at the tip of a sword. I understand why program survivors don't want to engage a group of former program parents still caught up in their mission to relieve responsibility from themselves to the ed cons. I do not believe these kids know the full story of SS, and by attacking them they never will. This starts and ends with program parents, big surprise.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2007, 05:24:43 PM »
Quote
This starts and ends with program parents, big surprise.


This is baloney.

The referral industry couldn't make a dime without the children they send to programs who pay them kickbacks or finder's fees. Yes, it's their parents money but without children, there is no program.

Second, referral agents are sales people.  Some are so good they could sell a man a box of tampons and convince him that this was a product he needed.  

 :flame:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2007, 05:31:08 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""

The referral industry couldn't make a dime without the children they send to programs who pay them kickbacks or finder's fees. Yes, it's their parents money but without children, there is no program.

The referral industry is a service to parents, not to the teen help industry. Program parents like to try and pretend it's the other way around to relieve themselves of responsibility. "Oh well so and so referral agent told me it was ok, don't blame me". Paying someone else to do research that can easily be done on your own is not noble, or in my mind forgivable. See I can be just as extreme as you. But I cut program parents slack for the sake of argument. Should I change tactics and start humiliating BuzzKill openly for being a program parent and utilizing the services of SS?


Quote

Second, referral agents are sales people.  Some are so good they could sell a man a box of tampons and convince him that this was a product he needed.  

 :flame:


So then why are you flaming these kids so hardcore, if you know how devious and slick the referral agents are? You can't have it both ways program parents. Either these people are slick salespeople who put one past you for a thousand bucks, or you paid them a service to feel better about a decision you knew was wrong in the first place. You blame these kids for making the same mistake you program parents did, and that is trusting referral agents.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »