Author Topic: Curious...  (Read 1800 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Curious...
« on: February 25, 2007, 11:14:54 PM »
When a kid dies in a wilderness program, do they just leave him there and keep going or do they make the other kids carry around his carcass or what?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Curious...
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 11:16:51 PM »
Authorities are called, then its used as an opportunity to have a MEGA emotional release LGAT style campfire session, as well as "DONT TELL YOUR PARENTS!!!!11one".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Curious...
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 11:51:16 PM »
I imagine it depends on the situation.
In my neighbor boy's case, most of the group had moved on without him- violation of regs.
The staff left him sitting in the sun after he flunked the "faker" test. One, the EMT, went ahead to check on the rest of the group and the other idiot was hiding behind a tree to try and catch him faking. While Ian sat in the sun and baked to death.
It tooks hours for emergency crews to get there because they were so remote and were given bad directions. They had to hike part of the way in. Too hot (110*) for the helicopter to land.
I often wonder though, if the other kids ever feel bad about harrassing him and calling him lazy (encouraged by staff), right up until the moment he died.
I also wonder if the EMT ever wished she'd stuck to her medical training instead of defering to the program's method of flushing out fakers.
She had nothing to treat heat exhaustion/hypothermia while hiking kids in the back 40 on the hottest day of the year. Not even water to pour on him. They started out short on water and desparate to get to the next water cache. Ian had no water, only what other's shared with him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Curious...
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 11:54:12 PM »
Wow, risky bullshit in the name of therapy that doesn't exist.

Oh boy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Curious...
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2007, 05:17:33 PM »
Is it legal to have kids exercise in this sort of heat? Here if it is the eq to the high 90s underage sporting matches etc are reschedueled
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Curious...
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2007, 07:03:55 PM »
No. It's not legal.

(7) Hiking shall not exceed the physical capability of the weakest member of the group. Hiking shall be prohibited at temperatures above 90 degrees F. or at temperatures below 10 degrees F. Field staff shall carry thermometers, which accurately display current temperature. If a consumer cannot or will not hike, the group shall not continue unless eminent danger exists.

The day Ian died (the hottest that year- 110* in Utah) the lead staff logged 90* when they began the hike at 8:30 in the morning, short on water.  

From my notes. Notice the numerous changes and attempts to cover-up made by the program and licensing.

G. Hiking shall be prohibited at temperatures above 95 degrees F. or minus 10 degrees F, including wind chill factor. (Old regulations was 95*)

15 July  Ken Steller (Lic Director for DHS):  ?temp between 90 and 95?group was above 8,000 feet. May seek to extend acclimation period?? [He didn?t]

15 July  Assoc Press: Stettler: Temp in Delta (4,000 ft) reached 110. Air would have been cooler at the higher elevation about 1pm when Ian fell ill.
[Later confirmed to be untrue by the accounts of the Rescue Team]  

16 July  Stettler: State Inspector recorded 95* at the site on Monday at 1:30  [11* cooler that day]

17 July  Stettler:  SJ followed all regs.  The ?nondeprivation? wilderness program stayed within appropriate temperature guidelines and responded correctly to the situation.  Waiting for an official cause of death and a completed police report before making a determination about possible violations.  Knows ?for sure? temp was under 95 because ?program officials carried thermometers.? Group continued when Ian stopped.  Wasn?t a violation because Ian wasn?t forced to continue.
[Clearly not how the regs read]

18 July  Carol Sisco (Spokesperson for DHS): Camp followed all the rules.  Hale (Counselor/EMT): when hike began at 8:30 it was 90*.  
101* at 1:30 according to NWS.

22 July Lee Wardle (owner) in a Press Release to Struggling Teens:  Less than 90*. Quotes Stettler 7/17 statement.  Deputies have confirmed temp was less than 90*, after contacting the US Meteorological Service. Temp at 11:30 at the altitude (6,800 ft)- 85-86*.

5 Aug Lee Wardle in statement to Struggling Teens: 1.4 miles of a two-mile hike. [All other reports said 3 miles] Complete and thorough investigation and State can?t find any violations of regs, company rules, or lack of common sense on the part of SJ. Still operating and ?appreciate the referrals that are coming from all sources?.  

20 Sept  Child Abuse Homicide charges filed against Mark Wardle, Leigh Hale, and SJ.  Sheriff?s Office believe the temp was above 95*- contradicting Lee Wardle?s statement 7/22 that deputies had confirmed temp less than 90*.

7 Jan 03 Defense Attorney: Contends it was less than 95*. If the case proceeds to trial, gauging an exact temperature will be a central issue.

14 July  Lic Rep Husbands testified before Judge Eyre, despite the fact that he was removed from the case when it was discovered that he and Wardle attended the same LDS church ward. Husbands told the court that by his ?rough estimation? it would have been about 88* degrees at 12:30 on the day Ian died. Among other things, two days after Ian died, Husbands hung a pocket thermometer in a tree at a similar elevation. [Impossible. Hale recorded 90* at 8:30.]

Stettler: ?When the county filed charges we said, ?Crud, there?s got to be something.?? Wondered whether his investigators had been too focused on the temperature at the scene. :rofl:

Rescue Team:  As the team passed the intersection of Marjum Canyon and Long Ridge Reservoir roads (just east of where Ian died) shortly after 2pm- 2 1/2 hours after Ian stopped hiking- a thermometer measuring outside temperatures registered 110 degrees. As the crew drew closer to the scene, the gauge hit 106 degrees.

There were teens hiking after 12:30. In fact if they had only traveled 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, or 1.5 (which ever story you believe)  miles of their 3 mile hike at 11:30, they would not have reached their destination until 2:30 or 3 when temps in Delta were hitting 103-104*.  They simply started the hike too late to avoid excessive temps and had to make it to the next camp to replenish water supplies. Ian didn?t have adequate water to make that trip. Even had Ian not fell ill, they would have exceeded the maximum temperature guideline. Also, given that Hale carried a thermometer and noted 90* in her log at 8:30, why don?t we have an EXACT temperature at 11:30 when Ian refused to hike?  Did the thermometer get lost between 8:30 and 11:30? How far did Hale expect they would get before temps increased 5*?

~~Justice was not served. They all walked. Skyline Journey's license was eventually revoked. They opened Distant Drum and continue to operate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700