Author Topic: Carlbrook thread Part 2  (Read 19783 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« on: February 05, 2007, 03:49:42 AM »
Hopefully this will get moved later into the main thread which is now locked...

So... Let's pick apart the staff shall we...  comments in blue.
Quote from: "Carlbrook Staff Page"
Advising

Amy R. McCormick, M.S.W., L.C.S.W
Assistant Dean of Advising
A Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Ms. McCormick graduated magna cum laude with her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Master of Social Work degrees from the University of Maine. Prior to to joining the Carlbrook team, Ms. McCormick served as a Residence Director at the University of Maine and as a Program Manager at Shaw House, a residential facility for adolescents.

Shaw House is an emergency shelter in eastern maine.  I have not confirmed her employment there, but based on the website it seems it is a volunteer only thing.  She is not a psychologist.  She got her masters in social work.


Angela Caine, M.S.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. Caine received her Bachelor of Social Science in Psychology from Indiana University and her Master of Science in Social Work from the University of Louisville, where she was selected for the National Dean?s List. She has several years of experience in individual, group and family counseling, most recently worked as a Therapist for Wellstone Regional Hospital and LifeSpring Mental Health Services in southern Indiana.

Well that's bull right there.  Therapist?  Without a licence...  For a cult?  Hint:  Google Lifespring!   it's est's cousin.  CEDU was borne out of est and Lifespring.. no wonder they hired her.

If that's not convincing.. simply ask and i can provide lots and lots of information on LifeSpring.

Not a licensed therapist


Julie Dyer, M.S.
Advisor
Ms. Dyer holds both a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology from Florida Atlantic University and a Master of Science degree in Clinical Psychology from Radford University. She has worked as an adolescent therapist for several years, first with young females at Tekoa Residential Treatment Center and later as a substance abuse counselor at the Division of Addiction Services in Richmond.

Okey dokey.. You are going to want to check out her former place of employment...

From the webpage "Tekoa utilizes experiential therapies to address the self-defeating coping strategies..."
http://http://www.tekoa.org/

includes the "Flying Changes Equine Program"

Well i guess there are programs in virginia..

Not a licensed therapist.


Bridget Gitthens, M.A.
Advisor
Mrs. Gitthens holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and a Master of Arts in Marriage and Family Therapy from Appalachian State University. During her years of counseling experience she has served both individuals and families in the areas of substance abuse, domestic violence and sexual assault. Her recent work experience includes positions at OASIS and Kaiser Permanente.

Unable to find information on previous employment.  

not a licensed therapist


Trevor Grimes, M.A.
Advisor
Mr. Grimes received his Bachelor of Arts in Sociology from the State University of New York at Geneseo and his Master of Arts in Social Work from the State University of New York at Stony Brook. His counseling experience includes work in educational and clinical settings, including the Lindenhurst School District (NY) and the Dept. of Family Medicine at Stony Brook University Hospital.

Unable to find information on previous employment.  

not a licensed therapist


Brandy Litwin, M.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. Litwin received both her Bachelor of Science in Psychology and her Master of Social Work degree from Western Michigan University. She possesses counseling experience with both adolescent and adult populations, having been a counseling supervisor for an adult foster care home as well as a high school counselor. Most recently she served as a school social worker at Harbor Creek School in Michigan

Unable to find information on previous employment.  

not a licensed therapist


Jen McArthur, M.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. McArthur, who holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Warren Wilson College and a Master of Social Work from Brigham Young University, has worked with adolescents for several years, including at-risk youth and socio-economically challenged populations. Her experience includes counseling positions with Wasatch Mental Health, Trend Community Mental Health, and Alldredge Academy.

Hmm... Alldredge Academy again?
Hmm... Wonder if she was there when the kid died...  have to check on that.
Wasatch Mental Health in Provo UT.
http://http://www.wasatch.org/
Wilderness program brought to you by the United Way!
 
not a licensed therapist


Johan Madson, M.Ed.
Advisor
With a Bachelor of Arts from Oberlin College and a Master of Education in Human Development Counseling from Vanderbilt University, Mr. Madson?s experience includes several school counseling positions in Tennessee and North Carolina (in both public and private settings). Most recently he was employed by the Office of Residence Life at Portland State University in Oregon.

Unable to find information on previous employment.  

not a licensed therapist



Sally Martin, M.S.W.
Advisor
Mrs. Martin received her Bachelor of Social Work from James Madison University and her Master of Social Work from Virginia Commonwealth University. Mrs. Martin has worked her entire career with adolescents experiencing emotional and/or behavioral difficulties, whether as a Residential Counselor at Seneca in California, a Child and Family Counselor at Devereaux in Arizona, or as Assistant Clinical Director at Phoenix Outdoor in North Carolina.

Quote

Robert Rollins, 12
Died: April 21, 1997
Cause: Asphyxiation
Patient at: Devereaux School, Rutland, Mass.

Robert was restrained for 10 minutes, face down on the floor, after a dispute escalated over his missing teddy bear. Investigators found a significant delay in emergency response. The staffer who restrained the boy left him lying, unresponsive, on the floor. No criminal charges were filed."
Yup.. she's qualified.

Phoenix was also a Brown school (CEDU)

not a licensed therapist


Daniel Perry, M.A., L.L.P.C.
Advisor
Mr. Perry holds a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Lake Superior State University in Michigan and a Master of Arts in Counseling from Central Michigan University. He has worked with adolescents for several years in both residential and private practice settings, and was previously the director of a day-treatment program for adolescents with substance abuse problems.

Curious they don't mention the name of the day-treatment program he worked at.

not a licensed therapist

i'll finish the rest tomorrow


Mindi Perry, M.S.W., L.M.S.W.
Advisor
Mrs. Perry earned a Bachelor of Science in Sociology from Lake Superior State University and a Master of Social Work from Grand Valley State University. With extensive experience in individual and family counseling, she has held a private practice specializing in children and adolescents, worked with Child and Family Services and Community Mental Health of Northeast Michigan, and most recently was a behavioral health consultant at Alcona Health Center.

Denise Prendergast, M.S.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. Prendergast earned a Bachelor of Science in Psychology at Michigan State University and a Masters of Science in the School of Social Work at Columbia University. She most recently served as a volunteer in the Peace Corps in Botswana where she counseled those infected and affected with HIV/AIDS. Prior to that Ms. Prendergast worked extensively with children and adolescents in both residential and outpatient settings and was a counseling supervisor at the San Diego Center for Children.

Natalie Sisson, M.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. Sisson received her Bachelor of Science in Social Work from Illinois State University and later graduated cum laude with a Master of Social Work from the University of Georgia. A member of the National Association of Social Workers, she has previously worked with adolescents as a residential counselor at Chestnut Health Systems and most recently as a therapist at Peace Place.

Kathianne Smith, M.S.W., L.C.S.W.
Advisor
Mrs. Smith earned a Bachelor of Science from Barat College and a Masters in Social Work from the University of Illinois. She has over 20 years experience in the field and has worked with adolescents and families in both outpatient and inpatient settings. Certified in the Commonwealth of Virginia as an expert witness, Mrs. Smith has worked in private practice and holds over 12 years post-license experience.

one is licensed as a counselor...  yay.  still not a psychologist

Nathan Webber, B.A., M.A. candidate
Advisor
Mr. Webber holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from the University of Toledo and is a candidate for a Master of Arts in Professional Counseling from Argosy University. He has worked with adolescents for several years, first as a Counselor at Three Springs and then as a Therapist at Cumberland Mental Health. A member of the National Guard, he completed a tour of duty in Iraq in 2003.


well TSW should be able to tell you about where he worked


Alicia Woodworth, M.S., L.P.C.
Advisor
A Licensed Professional Counselor, Ms. Woodworth earned a Bachelor of Arts in Communication from Western Michigan University and a Master of Science in Clinical Counseling Psychology from Francis Marion University. For the past several years she has worked with adolescents as a Clinical Counselor at Circle Park Behavioral Health Services, conducting individual, group and family sessions.

one is licensed as a counselor...  yay.  still not a psychologist

Frank A. Chesno, Ph.D.
Consulting Psychologist
Dr. Chesno, a licensed clinical psychologist with almost 30 years experience working with families, earned his doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Georgia, with pre-doctoral training completed at the College of William and Mary. He is a member of the American Psychological Association and has served as president of the South Carolina Academy of Professional Psychologists. Currently, Dr. Chesno serves as Director of Behavioral Medicine Services at Baptist Medical Center.

I'm going to check and see if this guy is licensed.


Karen.

So two of the programs some of these staff worked for have caused the deaths of children.

Do you think it's ok for people without licenses to practice medicine?

Just because your son wasn't harmed doesn't mean that others weren't.  Does your son think Carlbrook was harmless (not to him, to others)?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 04:28:01 AM »
I think what might be confusing for parents is when they read (if they bother to) the credentials of these people, in addition to not being knowledgeable about prior employment, is that they look at the degree and assume that means licensed. "Oh, they got a masters in Marriage and Family Therapy, so they are a licensed therapist." From my understanding, you get the degree, which enables you to then apply for certification. Once you pass the certification, you get a license number. I looked on my therapist's card, there is a license number printed right there. I looked on my psychiatrist's card, he has a medical license number on it.

Wouldn't it  be prudent for parents to request license numbers for these staff, and then cross check them?

If Carlbrook is as legit as it pretends to be, shouldn't they be posting the license numbers along with the staff descriptions? I mean, it should be RIGHT THERE, right next to their degree status, by the name.

Parents should also bother to ask about the differences between a social worker and a therapist. (Obviously, not from the TBS facility.) I'm a little fuzzy on them myself. I always thought social workers were the ones who did stuff like work for CPA.

My ex has a degree in social work, and I honestly don't know if he ever had to get a license. He used to work at Walden House (he hated it. Frighteningly enough, the synanon site links to it.) but now he's working at a rehab in New York.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 04:30:44 AM »
i have to aggree with Deborah.. none of these people appear to be Licenced according to the state.

http://https://secure01.virginiainteractive.org/dhp/cgi-bin/search_publicdb.cgi

Use zipcode 24558 (Halifax, VA)

Lots of people listed... none from Carlbrook's website.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline irvbulldogs72

  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 07:44:25 PM »
*****
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:20:14 AM by irvbulldogs72 »
******

Offline Charly

  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 07:55:35 PM »
Thanks for your post.  You are one of the very few actual Carlbrook students who have found this forum.  I would love to hear about your experience, whether you think the program was beneficial, and whether you felt it was abusive in any way.
Did you go directly to college from Carlbrook?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline irvbulldogs72

  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 08:16:18 PM »
******
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:20:51 AM by irvbulldogs72 »
******

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 08:40:12 PM »
Not directed at you Irv, but if this thread turns into a flame fest I'll lock it like the other one.

I'm in the middle of conducting a question and answer with some students from PV so I'm not to keen on having my forum turn into a war zone.


To Irv,

Welcome to fornits, and it will be interesting to see the differences in responses between yourself and Charly. You can either go back and re-answer the questions, or when I have time I'd be happy to ask you some new ones.

I'll say the same thing I said to Charly. Don't get caught up in the internet bullshit. Just focus on the questions and ignore the caustic comments. People here have been abused by programs or have had their kids abused in programs. Hence, their very negative impression of all programs of any sort.

To Charly,

Same for you young lady! No getting involved in troll wars!

Also congrats on that graduation. Very big occasion for your whole family. Maybe it will give your other one a bit of a prompt. Lols.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 08:41:12 PM »
Quote from: ""irvbulldogs72""
I graduated August 04 and went straight to Rutgers. And yes, my first semester I flew off the handle. I partied just as much as most of the freshmen I knew, but by second semester, I hadn't gotten kicked out, cut back on the partying, and got my act together.


Can you elaborate on what it was like in CB?  Good, Bad, Ugly...  Workshops, group...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline irvbulldogs72

  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 09:18:37 PM »
******
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:26:23 AM by irvbulldogs72 »
******

Offline Charly

  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 09:35:17 PM »
This Carlbrook grad is good friends with my son and is recounting his experience the way he sees it.  He sure knows more than I do!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2007, 09:41:09 PM »
Already did. You aren't near or even in the same state as Carlbrook.

carry on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2007, 09:42:31 PM »
Quote from: ""irvbulldogs72""
Okay, this is going to be a long post, so bear with me

It was......different. I've been out for 3 years now and it was literally being "removed from the stream of reality" for 16 months.

The students were broken up into teams. Boys and girls, all different peer classes. Each team had an adviser and an assistant adviser.

There were 5 workshops. One of our students went to CEDU middle school and ended up at Carlbrook for High School. He said that they were almost exactly like the Cedu workshops. Hell, the night I got out of Veneratio (the last workshop; Honor) he dropped one of the tools on me and he had only gone through the first three (Integritas (Integrity), Amicitia (Friendship), and Animus (Passion)). The tools and exercises and music...well, if you have specific questions, I'll tell you what I remember.

"Tell it all brother"...  What does that song mean to you?

Quote
Groups 3 times a week. Monday and Friday were request groups, Wednesday was Team group. Request groups were always scary for me, mostly because I was what you could call...well an Omega Male. All groups had at least one adviser, if not two. Sometimes the deans and/or directors would go to group.

I didn't deal well with confrontation and I took every bit of feedback as a reflection of character (read:permanent and irrevocable) and had to be reminded a number of times, by myself, my peers, and the advisers that it wasn't.

Rules were called standards, and when you were "out of standard" you'd usually get a crew. This was disciplinary action. An hour of physically demanding cleaning. You ran around and cleaned, on the hop. The "crew leaders" were all students.

yeah.. where I was, they called it "work ethic"

Quote
In "Lower School" we were allowed 1 phone call a week, and as many letters as we'd like.

Middle School upped us to two phone calls a week.

Our letters were never censored,

How sure are you?  I thought that as well until talking to my parents in detail, and realizing I didn't get many of the letters they sent me.

Quote
but they were read. Our parents had one call with our advisors every week.

Wilderness was a pre-requisite. We were all given aptitude tests before we were even considered for enrollment. I can tell you that everyone at Carlbrook was bright. The intellectual prowess was there, however neglected or misused it was.

Case in point: I got a 1380 on my SATs.....without trying.

Not bad, not bad.  Similar score here, same situation (not trying).

Quote
It was enough to get me into Rutgers Engineering. (R-U-RAH-RAH) I actually recently met with a girl who was on a college visit with her parents. Things have changed some since my tenure there, but I'll get into that later.

If you were stuck, acting out, or what have you, you'd get put on a program (this has since been turned into suspension). I was put on a program because I had "flown under the radar" through three workshops, avoiding many of my deeper issues. If anyone wants to hear more about that, I'll share.

Please do.  I am a rock... you know the shtick.  It's all the same in all the programs.  However, there is a sceptical parent reading, who I tried to convince of this, but she still remains sceptical.

From personal experience.. I know it's hard to write about, remember, or really even think about... But if you can , please.  I'd like to hear about it, and it might open the eyes of a few people.

Quote
Umm..lets see. A few of my close friends didn't make it through the program. When I was there, noone had yet to turn 18 and walk. However, from what I heard from the girl on her college visit, that's changed some. We had a few runners, and runners were sent back to wilderness. After I graduated, a few students went on home visits and never returned.

Visit schedule....hmmm: Okay, first visit is after the first workshop. Its 2 days on campus. Second is after the second workshop, 2 days off campus in a 150 mile or so radius. If you lived in that area, you weren't allowed to go home though. Some of my friends while I was there were actually fairly local to the area. Third visit was 3 days off campus. Fourth visit was a home visit, 1 week. Fifth visit was another home visit. Second visit you can drive, and its almost like a precursor to assimilation back into society.

I've recieved a few e-mails from our alumni relations. One was a survey on what could've been done better to help us post graduation. As a result of this, they've been working on putting together a reintroduction curriculum.

At least in my experience, they try and convince students they are changing... So they won't start a crusade... Have you talked to recent graduates?  My guess is that nothing ha (or will) change.  It hasn't cince CEDU's inception... and it won't.  It works (makes money)... why break it.

Quote
They make no pretenses that we're going to graduate and be little angels. They know that some of us will make mistakes. Some of us have. Carlbrook's first graduation was in May 03. It's still young, still changing. However, from what I've heard, it's become stricter and the students have been acting out worse and worse.

I haven't been back, although a number of my friends have. I do know that although it's very intense, it's also a very nurturing environment. Yes, the potential for abuse is there, with the monitoring of letters and limited phone calls. However, I never saw emotional abuse. Unless you call stark, clean, no bullshit honesty abusive.

Ok... Could you describe an example of "no bullshit honesty".

Quote
I don't, but I'm fairly conservative about these things.

I honestly can't say that I recommend the program to anyone anymore, because I haven't seen all the changes that have taken place since I graduated so my recommendation wouldn't be entirely in full faith.

Wise decision.  Programs lie.  I would be very interested in talking to you via phone or IM about your experiences.  Can you PM me?

Quote
My personal experience....I can't say I enjoyed the experience. And I can't say that I've gotten nothing out of it.

All the people who know me say that I went to college a shit-ton more confident than I was when I went in. I don't reflect often on my experience there, but I know that I'm different and better off for it.

Do you feel you have an almost paranormal insight into other people's heads?  Can you tell when they're lying?  (You can't con a con)...

Do you feel you discovered a "new you".. or that you took off masks you wore before program?

Quote
The morning I went to the woods (wasn't escorted) I had barely turned 16, and I had it in my head that I was gonna drop out of high school. I was on my second public high school. I would go days without coming home; I had, at that point, regrettably gotten into a few physical altercations with my father.....home wasn't a pretty place. I was a full of shit high schooler...I lied to most of the people in my life.

Were you encouraged to rewrite your "Life story"?  Multiple times?

Was what you wrote accepted... or did you have to put down what they wanted to hear to progress?

Did you ever believe what you put down?  Was it true?  What is truth to you?  Is it what others see, or what you know?  What do you know?  Did fiction become reality?  What were the facts?

I'm asking these questions, not for you to give me answers, but for you to think about them.  The answers are your own.  I've been there.  I know what I went through.  No.  I don't know you.  I can't see into your heart...  And neither could they.  They made a guess, and you had to accept it... How deeply did you accept it?  Pretending enough.... eventually you aren't pretending anymore.

Quote
Did my parents fuck up? Yes. Did they take responsibility for that? Yes. I'm in a unique situation for being Thai, with old country parents. Thailand is a country of corporal punishment, verbal abuse, and general strictness. I kinda feel that they didn't have a chance. The differences in cultures were tough enough.



For the record: I NEVER saw a student being physically restrained by a staff member.

Oh, and I've been pmming with Charly. I can vouch for her because I am close friends with her son.

And in terms of the women that I referenced earlier, they were very nurturing, caring, and good to me. Julie Dyer and Bridget Martinson were my advisors for the second half of my stay, Amy supported my first workshop and actually was hired right after I got there, and Jen, IIRC, supported my 4th workshop.


Oh cool.. You know Karen and her son.  She knows me too.

You seem to like the adcisors you were in your workshops with.  I'm not surprised.  Ever wonder why every student's favorite counselor/advisor is the workshop one?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 09:49:45 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2007, 09:47:03 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
This Carlbrook grad is good friends with my son and is recounting his experience the way he sees it.  He sure knows more than I do!


Well...  We know now that The CEDU workshops are identical to those at CB (similar to Benchmark).

I'm very interested in what is "honesty" as well...  This is most likely an example of what Lifton called "loading the language".  Take note.... My guess is that honesty is something like "the harsher the truth to tell, the truer the friend who tells it"... and likewise, friendship is redefined as well ("you are your brothers keeper"(monitor, rat, snitch))...  Brotherly love indeed.

Do those phraises sounds familiar?

how about "this is the first day of the rest of your life"?

Do you know how that phraise got into CEDU/Carlbrook?  Where it came from?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline irvbulldogs72

  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2007, 10:18:17 PM »
******
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:24:09 AM by irvbulldogs72 »
******

Offline irvbulldogs72

  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Carlbrook thread Part 2
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 10:36:08 PM »
******
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:23:05 AM by irvbulldogs72 »
******