Inside the head of a shithead parent

[Anonymous]

ccm needs to stop being so judgmental. she approves of seling kids into programs for money. that lacks class in itself.

[TheWho]

Bob wrote:  

16 homicides in TBS's out of 30,000 translates to 1 out of every 1,875 kids being killed.

The dataset is open, I am willing to add any names that you have.  Give me the first one (you said 16 toal right?) but lets look at one at a time.  Do you have a name?

[TheWho]

Once again you want to include public school kids who die either by sucide or homicide away from school. Explain how they factor into this conversation.

During some of the initial discussions we came across some scenarios where kids would go home (or was off campus) from a TBS and commit suicide and it was kicked around if  we should tie this in with the TBS data and it was decided that we should include those children.

But what we could do is just combine the ?at school? and ?away from school? data and just simplify it and say TBS and Public school and not differentiate whether they were on their way to school, on a bus, at school etc. It will make it easier to analyze also for future cuts.
I will combine the data, present it and see what it looks like in that form.

[TheWho]

This may simplify the data collection process to combine at home and away from home data, here is what the break down would look like:

School aged children

Time frame:  July 1, 1999 thru June 2000

Public sector -- 2,140 Homicides , 1,928 Suicides

TBS Setting -- 0 Homicides,  2 Suicides

[RobertBruce]

The dataset is open, I am willing to add any names that you have. Give me the first one (you said 16 toal right?) but lets look at one at a time. Do you have a name?

Certianlly Cindy,


Sabrina E. Day, 15

(R) North Carolina Group Home

February 10, 2000

Spin away.

[RobertBruce]

During some of the initial discussions we came across some scenarios where kids would go home (or was off campus) from a TBS and commit suicide and it was kicked around if we should tie this in with the TBS data and it was decided that we should include those children.

.

Decided by whom?

But what we could do is just combine the ?at school? and ?away from school? data and just simplify it and say TBS and Public school and not differentiate whether they were on their way to school, on a bus, at school etc. It will make it easier to analyze also for future cuts.
I will combine the data, present it and see what it looks like in that form.

The death of a kid who dies away from school has nothing to do with school safety. Thus, they have no bearing on the conversation. No need to mention it again.

[RobertBruce]

School aged children

Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000

Public sector -- 2,140 Homicides , 1,928 Suicides

TBS Setting -- 0 Homicides, 2 Suicides[/quote[/b]

Once again the death of a kid away from school has no bearing on school safety whatsoever. In fact the only reason you mention it is because you're looking for ways to paint public schools are more dangerous when the data has already proven, that just isnt the case.

Whatsmore, you have no idea what the situation was for those kids, all you've provided is that they were school age, what kind of school though? Public school? Private school? Home school? Kids on furlough from TBS's? The fact is you don't know, which is one more reason they should not be included.

[RobertBruce]

Oh and Cindy, I'm still waiting on you to work up the courage to answer this, well courage or creative bullshit.

Tell me Cindy how do your actions help these kids?

[TheWho]

The dataset is open, I am willing to add any names that you have. Give me the first one (you said 16 toal right?) but lets look at one at a time. Do you have a name?

Certianlly Cindy,


Sabrina E. Day, 15

(R) North Carolina Group Home

February 10, 2000

Spin away.

Well from what I could find there were no charges filed and it was not considered a homicide, if you had this info it would help.  (This would not be included in the public sector data either if that is any consequence) and a group home for kids isnt a TBS.

But you did get the time frame.

[TheWho]

The death of a kid who dies away from school has nothing to do with school safety. Thus, they have no bearing on the conversation. No need to mention it again.

Well, I beg to differ, not school safety per se, but child safety.  If a child is in the public school sector and is seeking treatment after school and takes their life this should be considered.  If you took the same child and placed them in a safe environment, say a TBS, this may not have happened (it may, but again it may not).  So we really cant exclude this data/ information.
If we tried to differentiate between their academic lives and social lives and therapeutic lives etc. we would have to do the same on the TBS side and only collect the deaths which occurred during their academic treatment and discard it if they were in their dorm, after school hours etc.
I mean we can certainly try to do this but I would recommend adding this as a sub set to see the effects, I believe the data would be hard to collect.

[RobertBruce]

Well from what I could find there were no charges filed and it was not considered a homicide, if you had this info it would help. (This would not be included in the public sector data either if that is any consequence) and a group home for kids isnt a TBS.

Of all the times kids are murdered in these places how often do you think charges are filed? Seldom at best Cindy. That's the point. These places self regulate and when a kid dies, it's swept under the rug and buried. This is exactly what we are trying to change and what you are working so hard against.

"What are you talking about we killed a kid? Hell no, he died of AIDS! Those bruises are self-inflicted!"

Why do you think they prefer to bring in their own ME? So they can spin their bullshit just like you.

and a group home for kids isnt a TBS.

It's a lockdown facility with a theraputic component geared towards kids. It fits. However I'll tell you what, I'll remove all hospitals and youth detention facilities (who are we kidding they could all be considered youth dentention facilities) from the listing just as soon as you drop kids who died away from school from your count and answer my question regarding how you believe you've helped these kids.

[TheWho]

Oh and Cindy, I'm still waiting on you to work up the courage to answer this, well courage or creative bullshit.

Tell me Cindy how do your actions help these kids?

I think the more information we can get to the parents to help them make a decision the better it would be for the kids.  I think what some people are missing is there are many parents who come here looking for information and if we can provide them a breakdown of where kids are safe and unsafe it will help them with their decision.  I mean eventually we mat be able to rate the TBS on some type of scale, but I believe this is far off, we are just at the beginning.

[TheWho]

Whatsmore, you have no idea what the situation was for those kids, all you've provided is that they were school age, what kind of school though? Public school? Private school? Home school? Kids on furlough from TBS's? The fact is you don't know, which is one more reason they should not be included.

No we don?t.  All we have is what the NCES provides us and they have defined their boundary conditions fairly well.  What would be in the best interest of this data is to follow closely what they have done so we can make a comparison.  Look very closely at the TBS and compare this to Public sector.  If a child is not enrolled in school they are not counted.  These are for kids who are enrolled only.  If they leave this public sector and go to a TBS they are not included in the NCES data set..

[RobertBruce]

Well, I beg to differ, not school safety per se, but child safety. If a child is in the public school sector and is seeking treatment after school and takes their life this should be considered. If you took the same child and placed them in a safe environment, say a TBS, this may not have happened (it may, but again it may not). So we really cant exclude this data/ information.

Beg all you like Cindy it doesnt change a thing. You're speculating based on nothing and are claiming TBS's to be safer again based on nothing. For all you know the kids who committ suicide in a TBS might have been safer and still alive today had they remained in a public school. The fact is you don't know and this is exactly why the data has nothing to do with what we are discussing, which is school safety. Nothing more at the moment.

If we tried to differentiate between their academic lives and social lives and therapeutic lives etc. we would have to do the same on the TBS side and only collect the deaths which occurred during their academic treatment and discard it if they were in their dorm, after school hours etc.

Wrong. At 3 o'clock when that bell rings and those kids go home the respondsibility for student safety ends for the administrators of the school. The school day never ends for a kid in a TBS until the next one begins. The kids in the TBS are meant to be under 24 hour supervision and care. You seem to forget I did attend one of these places, I do know what its like a great deal better than you ever could. On top of that the TBS's bill themselves as safer enviroments so then the microscope should be held that much closer, and the standards should be that much higher.

I mean we can certainly try to do this but I would recommend adding this as a sub set to see the effects, I believe the data would be hard to collect.

You mean very hard for you to spin. You're getting upset because you don't want to include the things that highlight the truth about how dangerous these TBS's are, or exclude the things that allow you to paint a different picture then that of the truth. Sorry Cindy, on here youre held accountable to the truth.

[RobertBruce]

I think the more information we can get to the parents to help them make a decision the better it would be for the kids. I think what some people are missing is there are many parents who come here looking for information and if we can provide them a breakdown of where kids are safe and unsafe it will help them with their decision. I mean eventually we mat be able to rate the TBS on some type of scale, but I believe this is far off, we are just at the beginning.

Fine, the problem is you're speaking in general terms. By claiming things like "TBS's are safer than public schools" you're including all TBS's. According to the data this isnt true, and all youre doing when saying it is giving parents misinformation and possibly putting their children in danger. Now if you wanted to claim something along the lines of "The ratio of kids being killed is lower at ASR than the national average." and assuming it was true I don't believe there would be a problem with it.